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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Hardship - partial offer, what to do??


karennol
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Hi Guys,

 

I have been offered £230 in full and final settlement of my hardship claim , the offer has been made without acceptance of liability. They have agreed to refund my fees between june and september 09 for 1 of my accounts but the claims go back 4 years and I have 2 accounts with them?

 

What shall I do? They have given me 14 days to accept?

 

Thanks

 

Karen

ps I HATE THE HALIFAX!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Another Halifax hater woo hoo:D How much roughly do they actually owe you- don't give an exact figure. My charges equated to about £3900 with interest. They offered to pay £2300 I politely declined and re-iterated the unfairness of the amount of charges and asked them for a breakdown of how it costs them £35/£39 to pay/not pay DD. Then they offered to pay £3300 the amount of the charges minus interest. I tried my luck again saying I wanted the interest too but they wouldn't pay it and told me if I didn't accept I could await the court case outcome. I sent a letter back saying it wasn't in a full and final acceptance- I still wanted interest but was prepared to wait for the court outcome.

Is this the first offer they have given you? I would defo push for more if it was me, I found that they do roll over eventually although it does take them some time.:rolleyes:

GOOD LUCK:)

<<<If I have helped please tickle the scales;-)<<<

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This is a grossly unfair way of making their offer. In order to make this offer they have clearly acknowledged that you are in hardship. It is not acceptable for them to say that they will not recognise any further hardship on your part.

 

If you can do without the money for the moment, I would suggest that you write to them and tell them that you ill not accept any conditions on their offer and either they pay you the money or you want the matter brought before the Ombudsman immedately as the offer is oppresive, unfair, contrary to the FSA waiver terms and contrary to the Banking code.

 

Which bank is this anyway?

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Oh, I see, it is the Halifax.

 

The offer is lacking in morality.

Have other people received similarly expressed offers from the Halifax?

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they owe me about £4000 without interest....and yes I am a halifax hater!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Are they allowed to apply hardship to just onme of my accounts...they form I filled out included my partners income and the other is a joint account with him. Should I get him to sign the next letter too?

 

How long do you think it will take? they seem to be dragging their heels!

 

Thanks for such a quick response!!

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Cheeky beggars!! As far as I know if you are in hardship you will be on both accounts not just one (I could be wrong!). Write back and tell them you will not be accepting their offer, tell them what your charges equate to and add the interest too. I think I waited about 2 weeks for them to offer the amount without interest. If they do offer you the amount minus interest, make it clear that this is not a full and final acceptance, that you will be claiming the interest at a later date. Mention in your letter that you will refer it to the FOS and FSA as bankfodder has mentioned above. You could say that you are perfectly entitled to commence court proceedings too as hardship is not affected by the test case.

Good luck:)

<<<If I have helped please tickle the scales;-)<<<

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Hi Guys,

 

I have been offered £230 in full and final settlement of my hardship claim , the offer has been made without acceptance of liability. They have agreed to refund my fees between june and september 09 for 1 of my accounts but the claims go back 4 years and I have 2 accounts with them?

 

What shall I do? They have given me 14 days to accept?

 

Thanks

 

Karen

ps I HATE THE HALIFAX!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Lots of misinformation on the thread so I will stick to the basics really. Which account did your priority debts(mortgage/rent, council tax, utilities) come out of?

Can I ask what caused the charges? What I mean by this is that charges are caused by a lack of funds to cover payments going out so, reduction in hours, maternity leave, loss of overtime would all be factors.

Did you send in copies of priority debt arrears?

Are any of the arrears being repaid either with additional payments or paying more per month?

 

I would never reject an interim payment but I would argue that an event caused the reduction in income leading to you missing priority debts and therefore those charges ate into your budget for the following month. If that event was earlier than June then I think you need to ask Halifax for a final response while negotiating a higher amount on the account where those bills are taken out of.

Hope that helps and no doubt at some point I will return to the thread with further help if required.

.

FSA Waiver on Bank Charges:http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/dir_quart_0709.pdf

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Oh, I see, it is the Halifax.

 

The offer is lacking in morality.

Have other people received similarly expressed offers from the Halifax?

To answer your question re offers, the answer is yes.

My personal opinion is to argue for more based on priority debts and the event that caused a reduction in income. Simply going to the FOS and saying "It's not enough" is not really an argument that is going to make any offer increase.

Furthermore, I think the obvious question to many people claiming hardship is whether there are credit card/store card/catalogue charges that can be reclaimed since there is no hold/stay on those claims and they have more chance of gaining hundreds if not thousands of pounds back which in itself may help reduce overall financial hardship by taking out non priority debt payments(ie credit card payments and subsequently interest) and putting it back in the pot for priority debts that can lead to the loss of home, liberty and essential utilities.

.

FSA Waiver on Bank Charges:http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/dir_quart_0709.pdf

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Hiya,

 

Thanks for helping!!

 

My partner was out of work between 01/07 and 04/08 so we just had my income, then I went on mat leave and got paid statuatory pay from August to January when I returned to work part time until July, I have not been working since the end of July. My partner is also on the edge of being made redundant. So we have had a catalogue of financial misfortune for the last 2 years almost.

 

We are paying a bit more off the mortgage arrears each month and we are stealing from peter to pay paul with all of our other bills, we owe eon about £800!!. The charges were caused by lack of funds....sometimes because charges had been taken out and sometimes because I am not very organised.

 

The account they have offered to pay me £238 for is not my priority account but has had an unarranged overdraft for about 4 months.

 

I think I am due about £100 back from Egg from my credit cards but we have accrued about £4000 in charges over both my halifax accounts.

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Hiya,

 

Thanks for helping!!

 

My partner was out of work between 01/07 and 04/08 so we just had my income, then I went on mat leave and got paid statuatory pay from August to January when I returned to work part time until July, I have not been working since the end of July. My partner is also on the edge of being made redundant. So we have had a catalogue of financial misfortune for the last 2 years almost.

 

We are paying a bit more off the mortgage arrears each month and we are stealing from peter to pay paul with all of our other bills, we owe eon about £800!!. The charges were caused by lack of funds....sometimes because charges had been taken out and sometimes because I am not very organised.

 

The account they have offered to pay me £238 for is not my priority account but has had an unarranged overdraft for about 4 months.

 

I think I am due about £100 back from Egg from my credit cards but we have accrued about £4000 in charges over both my halifax accounts.

 

I think you need to argue the case from July 2007 and explain how this happened and what happened to the account due to the lack of income and explain how you robbed peter to pay paul with dates. Furthermore, explain the situation now(unfortunately future events are not hardship until they happen). If you can argue that a downward spiral happened and continued to go down up to today then you might be able to ask them to reconsider on that basis alone and I would argue on the joint account or where the priority debts come out of.

I would ask them to send you a final response letter and on that basis take it to the FOS arguing against their letter in doing so.

I hope that makes sense and that you are prepared to make the financial hardship part of the claim as individual to you and your partner's circumstances are because you might be able to negotiate higher amounts.

.

FSA Waiver on Bank Charges:http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/dir_quart_0709.pdf

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sorry...i forgot to mention that the unarranged overdraft was caused by charges!

 

Thanks

 

Karen

Charges are the consequence of a lowering of income so the cause was the lifestyle change leading to the consequence of an excess of the agreed overdraft facility.

.

FSA Waiver on Bank Charges:http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/dir_quart_0709.pdf

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Lots of misinformation on the thread so I will stick to the basics really.

 

Sorry yourbank if I have misunderstood your quote about misinformation. I was advising what I had done with the Halifax. The Halifax sent a laughable offer and I rejected it and this is what I was telling the OP. If they aren't happy with the offer (and why would they be?) they are well within their rights to reject it.

There is only myself and bankfodder who have replied so I assume you think it is me giving mis-information? As I said apologies if I have misunderstood.:)

<<<If I have helped please tickle the scales;-)<<<

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Lots of misinformation on the thread so I will stick to the basics really.

 

Sorry yourbank if I have misunderstood your quote about misinformation. I was advising what I had done with the Halifax. The Halifax sent a laughable offer and I rejected it and this is what I was telling the OP. If they aren't happy with the offer (and why would they be?) they are well within their rights to reject it.

There is only myself and bankfodder who have replied so I assume you think it is me giving mis-information? As I said apologies if I have misunderstood.:)

 

Fedup, I disagree with BF and not yourself. I have no time for soundbites but apologies if you thought it was aimed at you since it wasn't.

The advice I would have is never to reject offers but to negotiate based on your circumstances.

 

To answer Karennol, I misinterpreted 01/07 as being 1st of july rather than Jan 07.

.

FSA Waiver on Bank Charges:http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/dir_quart_0709.pdf

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Hi guys,

 

Went back to Halifax and explained that I wouldn't be accepting their offer as it was far too low and for the past 2 years (since hardship started) they have applied about £2500 in charges.

 

They said that they accept that I am in hardship but its best they will do! and told me to go direct to the ombundsman. Is this normal....I expected a bit more "haggling" than that!!!

 

Thanks

 

Karen

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  • 2 weeks later...

I actually think you got quite a lot as they only offered me £175 for £2300 worth of bank charges for two accounts. I was on the phone almost daily explaining my financial circumstances but it finally occurred that I was dealing with some kind of stone headed people and gave up. I did sent them statements of rent with arrears, gas bills showing that I was in arrears but this didnt work and they still kept on standing on the offer and finally referred me to the ombudsman. After reading inside out and doing some google searches I gave up as I realised that the FSA rules are not as straightforward on hardship refunds and they do not necessarily have to refund. As for me I will now wait until the court case ends but will keep an eye here also to see how others are progressing

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  • 1 month later...
This is a grossly unfair way of making their offer. In order to make this offer they have clearly acknowledged that you are in hardship. It is not acceptable for them to say that they will not recognise any further hardship on your part.

 

If you can do without the money for the moment, I would suggest that you write to them and tell them that you ill not accept any conditions on their offer and either they pay you the money or you want the matter brought before the Ombudsman immedately as the offer is oppresive, unfair, contrary to the FSA waiver terms and contrary to the Banking code.

 

Which bank is this anyway?

 

halifax did this to me - acknowledged the hardship by offering me £35 and then went on to not pay it but add two more charges to my account!! ps can I get me 8% on the charges I claimed two years ago, did not sign a full and final settlement document and stupdily accepted charges only, now they have gone on to behave outrageously and still have unlawful PPI to claim back, I dont see why they should get away with it!! very annoyed.

'rise like lions after slumber, in unvanquishable number, shake your chains to the earth like dew, which in sleep had fall'n on you, ye are many, they are few.' Percy Byshse Shelly 1819

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