Elsinore v Citi Cards***WON & PAID***

[elsinore]

Sent Data Protection Act S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) letter 10.8.06 Already have most statements (showing £550 charges) and certain that remainder will show more.

 

Also sent suspend action letter to Mackenzie Hall who have been collecting alleged o/s debt.

 

Elsinore

[elsinore]

Zilch from Citi in response to my SAR letter

Time to send a nudge letter, as their time will be up on 25th.

 

Elsinore

[elsinore]

Data received today from Citi Cards.

Total unlawful charges £825 (I thought it was about £300!!)

 

Elsinore

[adamski]

Great i have just took them to court for £775 but because they play hardball its now bumped up to nearly £1000

Good Luck

adamski

[elsinore]

Thanks adamski, I'll follow your progress closely!

 

Elsinore

[elsinore]

Preliminary Approach for Repayment letter sent 11th October, £931.54

 

Elsinore

[elsinore]

Received this reply to my PAR:-

 

Dear Elsinore (not Dear Mr Elsinore, just Dear Elsinore)

 

Thank you for taking the time to write to me about the charges, which have been added to your account.

 

On Wednesday 5th April 2006 the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) issued a statement regarding the default charges levied on customers by credit card issuers for breaches of contract such as making a late payment or going over their credit limit.

 

Within this statement the OFT has stated that it believes that those charges are too high and has recommended credit card companies review their position with a view to reducing their respective charges to a maximum of £12, unless there are exceptional reasons why a higher level should apply. Card issuers had been requested to review and respond to the OFT by 31st May 2006.

 

Although not a party to the OFT investigation that led to its report, Citi Cards is aware of the report and we have undertaken to reconsider our charges in light of the OFT statement.

 

In order to remain competitive with other lenders we have reconsidered these charges after a review of the market. From 28 June onwards we have lowered our charges to the OFT recommended rate of £12. This change is not retrospective in offer.

 

Citi was involved in a recent Court case in Northern Ireland, the case of Kissick v Citifinancial Europe plc, in which the fairness of these charges was challenged. The Court dismissed the case, implicitly finding that the charges are fair and in conformity with the OFT guidance and common law principles of contractual damages.

 

I understand that this was not the outcome you would have hoped for and if you would like an independent review of this, you may refer to the Finance and Leasing Association at the following address:

 

The Compliance Manager

4th Floor Imperial House

15-19 Kingsway

London WC3B 6UN

 

You may also contact the Financial Ombudsman Service. This must be done within six months from the date of this letter. I have enclosed their leaflet for you. If you have any other questions or would like to discuss this further, please do not hesitate to contact me on the number below and I will be happy to assist you.

 

Yours sincerely

Mark Clibbens

Office of the Chief Executive.

Tel: 0800 146188

Fax: 0870 9050710

Email: [email protected]

[elsinore]

Sent Citi this yesterday

 

Dear Mr Clibbens,

 

I refer to your letter dated 16th October 2006.

 

The last person to address me by only my surname was my C.O. in the Royal Air Force, where authority and convention made it acceptable. Fortunately I have a thick skin and was not unduly offended by your use of it. I assume that it was, like the remainder of your letter, a simple mistake.

 

Although it is perfectly proper for you to refer to the statement issued by the Office of Fair Trading on 5th April 2006, you are wrong to contend that the OFT regards £12 as an acceptable maximum charge. I quote from the OFT statement:-

‘Where credit card default charges are set at more than £12, the OFT will presume that they are unfair, and is likely to challenge the charge unless there are limited, exceptional business factors in play. A default charge is not fair simply because it is below £12. Setting a threshold for intervention is a pragmatic pro-consumer action that is designed to give the industry the opportunity to change its practice without litigation’.

and from the OFT statement dated 7th September 2006

‘A fair credit card default charge should not exceed a reasonable estimate of certain limited administrative costs which the credit card issuer reasonably expects to incur as a result of default’

You state that, although you were not a party to the OFT investigation, you have undertaken to reconsider your charges in the light of the OFT statement. In the very next sentence you state that you have reconsidered these charges after a review of the market and to compete with other lenders. If you have only reduced your charges in order to compete, then you deny the veracity of the OFT. If, however, you accept the OFT rationale, then there is no need for you to mention the competitive situation..

 

Citing a recent court case, in which you were a litigant, is pesumably your attempt to persuade me to withdraw my claim. Perhaps you are not aware that no precedent can be set in respect of a County Court judgement. Also, your ‘success’ in that case was dulled by the fact that you refunded the claimant the differences between your charges and £12, a decision which was made possible by your policy change of 26th June 2006. Yet you assert in your letter to me that those reductions are not retrospective. Furthermore, you have settled other claims in full both before and after your decision to reduce your charges.

 

Such inconsistencies in your actions indicate that if you are not acting upon sound, professional, legal advice, then you should be. If you are acting upon professional. legal advice, you should perhaps be seeking that advice elsewhere.

 

You now have until 9th November 2006 to reconsider and advise me of your decision, based on the requests outlined in my letter of 11th October 2006. If you do not reply, or reply negatively, I will commence a claim in the County Court for the refund of the sum mentioned, to which will be added statutory interest currently standing at £263.00.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Elsinore

[gizmo111]

Great - but where is Brian?

[elsinore]

Er, dunno.

Perhaps he only joins in after a claim is issued.

 

Elsinore

[gizmo111]

Er, dunno.

Perhaps he only joins in after a claim is issued.

 

Elsinore

 

Never used to - he was there in the front line defending from the beginning - maybe he's on a training course or summat.

[elsinore]

You're making me bite my tongue, Giz!!

[keren29]

I've only ever had one letter from Brian - today. A very terse one liner to tell me the money the court had ordered Citi to pay into the courts had been done.

 

My other letters (replies to prelim and LBA) were answered by Clare in the Office of the Chief Exec.

[mcuth]

Excellent letter, Elsinore - especially loved the paragraphs about your CO & the recent court case - nice work

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[elsinore]

Thanks Michael.

I'm following your RBoS biggie with interest (pun intended!) as I also have a biggie in the offing.

Good luck with that.

 

Elsinore

[elsinore]

Yet another laughably inept letter from a planet far away in a distant galaxy. This is presumably in response to my last letter, although it in no way relates.

 

Dear Elsinore (Yes, they missed out the Mr again)

 

Thank you for taking the time to write to me about the refund of default charges to your Citi Card account.

 

I understand that you have contacted us previously about this matter, which we will now look into again for you. To allow me to review your request I may be required to obtain copies of your statements. Unfortunately, if this is the case, it may take between three and six weeks as they are retrieved from our archives, however if I am able to get this information sooner I will do so.

 

Once I have the information and assessed your request I will confirm in writing the outcome. I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your patience, in resolving this matter and if you have any further questions in the meantime, please do not hesitate to contact me on the number below and I will be happy to assist you.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Mark Clibbens

 

Roll on 9th November.

 

Elsinore

[gizmo111]

Yet another laughably inept letter from a planet far away in a distant galaxy. This is presumably in response to my last letter, although it in no way relates.

 

Dear Elsinore (Yes, they missed out the Mr again)

 

Thank you for taking the time to write to me about the refund of default charges to your Citi Card account.

 

I understand that you have contacted us previously about this matter, which we will now look into again for you. To allow me to review your request I may be required to obtain copies of your statements. Unfortunately, if this is the case, it may take between three and six weeks as they are retrieved from our archives, however if I am able to get this information sooner I will do so.

 

Once I have the information and assessed your request I will confirm in writing the outcome. I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your patience, in resolving this matter and if you have any further questions in the meantime, please do not hesitate to contact me on the number below and I will be happy to assist you.

 

Yurs sincerely

 

Mark Clibbens

 

Roll on 9th November.

 

Elsinore

 

:lol:

 

And x to Brian

[Rosemary]

And one from me too! A nice sticky one. X

[adamski]

Yet another laughably inept letter from a planet far away in a distant galaxy. This is presumably in response to my last letter, although it in no way relates.

 

Dear Elsinore (Yes, they missed out the Mr again)

 

Thank you for taking the time to write to me about the refund of default charges to your Citi Card account.

 

I understand that you have contacted us previously about this matter, which we will now look into again for you. To allow me to review your request I may be required to obtain copies of your statements. Unfortunately, if this is the case, it may take between three and six weeks as they are retrieved from our archives, however if I am able to get this information sooner I will do so.

 

Once I have the information and assessed your request I will confirm in writing the outcome. I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your patience, in resolving this matter and if you have any further questions in the meantime, please do not hesitate to contact me on the number below and I will be happy to assist you.

 

Yurs sincerely

 

Mark Clibbens

 

Roll on 9th November.

 

Elsinore

 

I work with Archived files and high resolution archive files at that (in other words large files 1mb - 200mb per file) and it takes seconds to retrieve data if you are given the information ie a unique reference number or account number, so 6 to 8 weeks for a multinational company to retrive such data is utter BULL****.

Do they think we are all stupid and that we have no knowledge of what they actually do and how computer systems work when most of us work with things like this day in out.

This letter is so patronising its ridiclous to the extreme.

 

Just goes to show this companys right arm does not know what the left is doing like all the banks i have dealt with since becoming a member.

Enough said otherwise ill go on all night

adamski

[mcuth]

Isn't it nice to know that they read your letter thoroughly and responded to each pertinent point? :rolleyes:

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[elsinore]

Claim issued 9th November 2006 £1318.48

 

Elsinore

[adamski]

A nice cheque in the post for you before christmas the difference between £12 and £25, but you will have to scrap hard for the rest

Good Luck

adamski

[elsinore]

Thanks Adamski.

As with the rest of the Citi Brigade. I'm very patient and very determined!

 

Elsinore

[adamski]

Wicked fight on!

[gizmo111]

Thanks Adamski.

As with the rest of the Citi Brigade. I'm very patient and very determined!

 

Elsinore

 

And we get a few laughs along the way!