Egg - ARC who are the people Ive been paying ever since.

[pedross]

When the DN was issued it only required 7 days to remedy as cerb pointed out earlier. It just allows for the 7 days if it was posted 1st class but falls short if it was posted 2nd class.

 

You need to look at the thread PT has running about Egg

 

Pedross

[cashins]

its not 7 days it is 14 days

 

 

The date the default notice was issued is relevant as:

 

The original 74 act required 7 days. This was changed to 14 days in the 2006 Act BUT IS NOT RETROSPECTIVE. A DN issued in 2004 would only require 7 days.

 

The notice in question would be valid on dates provided it was sent by Ist class post (for which the allowance is 2 days). If sent by 2nd class (for whach the allowance is 4 days), it's not.

 

Having said all that they have made such a pigs ear of the required statements, (which must be exact - NOT a de minimus issue), that it's invalid.

 

Another angle of attack - If there are a significant amount in late/over limit etc. charges forming a significant % of the sum required to rectify the breach, that would give them a big problem as well.

 

David

[cab1ne]

The date the default notice was issued is relevant as:

 

The original 74 act required 7 days. This was changed to 14 days in the 2006 Act BUT IS NOT RETROSPECTIVE. A DN issued in 2004 would only require 7 days.

 

The notice in question would be valid on dates provided it was sent by Ist class post (for which the allowance is 2 days). If sent by 2nd class (for whach the allowance is 4 days), it's not.

 

Having said all that they have made such a pigs ear of the required statements, (which must be exact - NOT a de minimus issue), that it's invalid.

 

Another angle of attack - If there are a significant amount in late/over limit etc. charges forming a significant % of the sum required to rectify the breach, that would give them a big problem as well.

 

David

 

"yep" penny has dropped

[Deb T]

I've been sent a copy of the original cca by the collecting agent or egg in a different word..ARC and now they're demanding payment in full.

 

I have a few different letters from egg around the time of the default and termination all with different balances on...the original cca differs to the one I have...I have the original green agreement......but the date the one was sent to me on tends to tie up with documents from them concerning my account pre running into difficulty with them....

 

However, the default notice irrespective of the days sent etc...I do feel it does not conform at all with the requirements set out under the 77 act...as quoted above by Cabn1E ....

 

I've paid the collection agent every month for the last 5 years and because I requested the CCA they now want the balance in full....pah!

 

Also, the method I pay them by costs me £2.40 at a post office each month....so now I pay every two months...and not only that but the debt with egg appears since the termination notice has increased by over £1000 even though I've paid them for the last 5 years.

 

If the default notice is invalid then should I write to the collecting agent telling them to suck eggs and at the same time send a subject access to egg?

 

Incidentally the subject access link above points to one of cags templates but I'm sure there is another that is very specific in what it asks for i.e copies of both sides of a piece of paper...transactions made, calls received/made, emails sent etc....I can't find it but is that the one I should be sending?

[cab1ne]

Data Protection Act 1998

 

 

Subject Access Request

Account No

Dear Sir/Madam

 

regarding the above account, please supply me with all data that you hold on me. This includes in particular, but is not limited to, the following:-

 

1. The original signed, executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was open.

2. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with CREDITOR/DCA

3. True copies of any notice of assignment and default notices or enforcement notice that CREDITOR/DCA sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

4. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract with terms and conditions, inclusive of all dates they were added and/or deleted. (If applicable).

5. Details of any collection charges added to the account; specifically, the dates were levied, the amounts of any charges, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charges were calculated, and what the charges cover.

6. Specific details of any fees or charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees or charges and what each fee or charge relates to and on what date said fees or charges were levied.

7. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

8. A list of third party agencies to which you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

9. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

10. Termination notices

 

PLEASE NOTE that unless otherwise stated by yourselves and if the above documents are NOT provided, it will be CONFIRMED that you are unable to reproduce/provide in any way shape or form any copies of the above requested documents. You are reminded that you have a duty to inform me if you do not have the above documents. This is confirmed in High Court Law - Ezsias v Welsh Ministers - [2007] All ER (D) 65 (Dec)

 

You are reminded that you are obliged to supply all the above documents in line with the Information Commissioners Technical Guidance update (Dated August 2007)

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

print your name here DO NOT SIGN

£10 postal order LEAVE IT BLANK

post recorded MAKE THEM SIGN FOR IT

allow 40+2 DAYS

 

i also added transripts of any telephone conversations,

Edited September 10, 2009 by cab1ne
oops

[Deb T]

Thank you for that....at the same time as sending that request ...should I also send the same to their collecting arm ARC ?

 

and where at Egg do I send it?

[pedross]

Another angle of attack - If there are a significant amount in late/over limit etc. charges forming a significant % of the sum required to rectify the breach, that would give them a big problem as well.

 

David

 

I think you need to plan your strategy and the point by David is valid. If the balance has increased by £1000 it can only be from charges so how much are the total charges that you can challenge.

 

Secondly the agreement itself is it enforceable.

 

Finally the DN which might not help you at all even if it is defective as they may argue that the agreement has endured as you continued to make payments over and above the default amount and just issue another one.

 

It needs careful consideration.

 

Pedross

[Deb T]

They can't issue another default as they went on to terminate the account....

 

In essence the account balance has increased by over £1000 but if you consider I've paid them over £500 back over 5 years then it's actually increased by £1500 . I have never been made aware of any charges from ARC and if they don't own the debt (and they refer to egg as 'their client' so I suspect they do not own it at all) then they should not be able to add charges....

 

I do not see the agreement as having 'endured' at all, it is only recently that I have decided to request the agreement. From this point on and given the degree of errors in the default agreement I now consider it to be suspect and unenforceable.

 

The original credit agreement is different to the one I have..as in it's dates....I ahve a green one in front of me and sent on a particular day, the one they've sent me back was also sent on the same day but has a different date when signed by me....I'd like to know why that is....

 

Also, what is the 'approved limit' isse that is with egg and which is contained on the agreement I've posted up?

[Deb T]

This is becoming a touch confusing, one is saying the agreement is enforceable, the other is not. I realise I make my own choices but with such conflicting information it becomes difficult nigh on impossible to plan any kind of strategy.....

 

This is a copy of the alleged signed agreement sent to me by ARC, (along with a direct debit form) Is what they have sent me enforceable or not? It does seem very sparse...doesn't give me my credit limit or anything...

 

It states under the Credit Agreement part 'The main financial terms of the agreement are set out below. A copy of the agreement is enclosed for you to keep'

 

I don't have anything else sent from ARC and the agreement shown below does not give credit limits etc..but instead points to an approved limit or an individual limit if set by me?

 

http://www.partnerpick.com/userspace/user3727/egg/arcegg2sav.jpg

http://www.partnerpick.com/userspace/user3727/egg/arcegg1sav.jpg

Edited September 11, 2009 by Deb T

[pedross]

Just in case you thought I was saying the agreement is enforceable I will clarify my post as I would not want to confuse you.

 

I believe you may have a case on reclaiming charges as one option.

 

I believe that the agreement is unenforceable but as I pointed out on an earlier post there is an ongoing debate regarding the 'approved limit' situation and there is a very informative thread about it. There is also a case in progress which may clarify the situation which pt is keeping us up to date with. With regards to your credit limit it does not have to be stated as a figure.

 

With regards to the DN I was just pointing out that it is not safe to rely on that alone as cases have already been lost on reisssued DN's. The fact that you have still been making payments for the last 5 years could give Egg the opportunity to say the agreement continues even though they said it was terminated.

 

I don't want you to think I am being negative and I believe that you probably have a case and you should continue to pursue this. But it is not as black and white as you appear to believe.

 

I see that David has been giving you information and he is very good so its probably best that I leave it to him to advise you to avoid confusion.

 

Pedross

[Deb T]

Pedross, thanks for that...and thanks for clearing as few things up, I admit I did read you wrongly....having said that at no point do I think you've been negative, some answers to queries may at times seem unpalatable but that doesn't mean they're wrong....

 

I am peeved with Egg, I have read PT's thread and the gazillion of pages attached to it and found it very informative...it's a little difficult to keep up with mind.

 

I've just printed out the Subject Access to egg as quoted above and I'm going to subject access ARC at the same time if I can find a letter that suits as the one above seems to concentrate on the OC...

 

If I've given the impression I think I'm on the home run with these people then please accept my apologies, I am well aware of the precarious road ahead and the many up's and downs along the way...and I certainly do not think they'll just roll over and go away with any ease but I do think I have a case for them to answer....

[Deb T]

I've searched the site for a suitable subject access for a dca but cannot find one that seems appropriate. The one posted here further up the thread I have sent to the original creditor egg but it doesn't quite fit with one I should send to the dca

[Deb T]

where private and confidential evidence can be sent to and read rather than responded to by a customer services staff member with 'thanks but we're not interested'

[Deb T]

Have been monitoring my credit file for some time now...

 

A default I had recent fell off with EGG (in April)

 

I have checked my file again today and it now shows Egg back on

there with an increased balance and a default date for the end of

this year......

 

This is clear manipulation of my credit file, I have a snapshot of the account prior to egg coming off which quite clearly showed the balance and the date the default of the account.....and then last month it was gone and now it is back with an increased amount on the balance and with a year added to the default date.

 

What next?

[gyos]

Complain.

 

If they won't remove it report them to the Information Commissioner.

[twofoot]

They are only allowed to list you for 6 years from the original default date. If you are saying it's gone over the 6 years do what gyos advises. The only exception I'm aware of is if they obtain a CCJ during that 6 years, in which case the CCJ can stay on for 6 years.

[angry cat]

Make a formal complaint to the ICO!

[DonkeyB]

You should also be demanding compensation. This is vexatious!

[Deb T]

I'd like to know what rules/obligations/guidelines they have broken/breached/not adhered to....as I fully intend to make myself a nuisance with them.

 

As far as I am concerned they have manipulated my file by adjusting the date of my default, thankfully I have the original as a snapshot and I have a default/termination letter from them that corresponds within a few days to the original default date.

 

Not only that but they're adjsuted the balance to one that is higher than when I made my last payment and they're also failed to respond to a Subject Access request made late last year and which they cashed the postal order and the recorded delivery letter I sent it to them was shown as delivered.

 

They have much to answer and I'd like to make them answer by whatever method available. I can sort of get it when a dca that updates a credit file might go someway to extending the default, I don't expect anything different from them but when an Original Creditor does so along with the other errors catalogued here it kind of irritates me just that little bit more, they are supposed to be a responsilbe lender and bound by the terms of their credit licence, thus far they've done nothing of the sort where thos particular debt is concerned.

 

I last paid them 12 months ago but stopped when they didn't produce an enforceable credit agreement with the one they did produce showing different dates to when it was originally taken out.....

[angry cat]

Information relating to a Default can only be processed on your credit file(s) for a maximum of 6 years; said information runs from the date of the first default being registered.

 

If you do not hold copies of your credit files going back 6 years.

I suggest that you make SAR requests to: Equifax, Experian and CallCredit, in order to obtain copies of the information processed which relates to the account in questiion.

[angry cat]

In short Debs, collate your evidence and then go for them via the; ICO!

[Deb T]

Information relating to a Default can only be processed on your credit file(s) for a maximum of 6 years; said information runs from the date of the first default being registered.

 

If you do not hold copies of your credit files going back 6 years.

I suggest that you make SAR requests to: Equifax, Experian and CallCredit, in order to obtain copies of the information processed which relates to the account in questiion.

 

 

I'm collating so to speak I wasn't aware that I could subject access a Credit Ref agency though, if it is the case that I can then I will.

 

The new and adjusted default is 11months on from when the one that had been on 6 years had dropped off in April, the new one is extended to March 2011 ....

 

It's bad enough that it was on for 6 years but just how much more are they wanting to play with peoples credit files.

[Ruprecht]

I'm collating so to speak I wasn't aware that I could subject access a Credit Ref agency though, if it is the case that I can then I will.

 

The new and adjusted default is 11months on from when the one that had been on 6 years had dropped off in April, the new one is extended to March 2011 ....

 

It's bad enough that it was on for 6 years but just how much more are they wanting to play with peoples credit files.

 

You can do a subject access request against the credit reference agency, send them the £10 and make sure you state you are aware of the £2 statutory report they can give and you do not want this, you want all data you are entitled to under the act. You might like to add that you do not want them write back offering you the £2 one.

 

I did one against experian once, they phoned me to say they would send a courier with it! Sure enough the next day a whole box of 2,500 pages arrived! LOL ...... be careful what you wish for! Maybe they do it on a CD these days.

 

I am still using what they sent as scrap paper 5 years on, there is still half of the box left.

[angry cat]

http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/detailed_specialist_guides/default_tgn_version_v3%20%20doc.pdf

[Deb T]

Thankyou to you Angry Cat for the idea and to Ruprect for bringing up the rear (er, not literally I'll have you know) I shall do just that (Subject Acess) this week.