Court Case #4 - CL Finance (GE Money) **WON - CASE THROWN OUT**

[the_shadow]

Hi,

I have sent back the Acknowledgement of Service Forms and sent them back. I have pieced together all the documentation i have and attached them.

 

Can someone take a look if possible to see if they can pick up any discrepencies?

 

I believe the Default Notice may be dodgy, and I have not received a Termination Notice.

 

I have until July 13th to file my defence.

 

Regards

 

the claim form extract has your account number in it, I've asked the site team to unapprove until you've edited.

 

S.

[the_shadow]

Ok the agreement will be deemed enforceable as its so recent however the default notice is a pile of tosh as you state, it states to rectify that you have 21 days from receipt of letter, how will they know when you received that letter unless they personally served it on yourself. It could end up with you having 19 days to rectify but it could also if postal problems mean you have 2 days.

 

S.

[the_shadow]

Hi,

Sorry, Ive not been around the past few weeks...my wife is about to give birth any day, and she has had some complications. I have not have much of a chance to concentrate on this.

 

I am putting up all my docs on this case, if someone could take a look, that would be great.

 

Sounds like there are some interesting argument points.

 

Hmm abuse of cpr process there, a notice of assignment which combines with a county court claim at the same time... whatever happend to the good old letter before action? anyway:-

 

Agreement will be enforceable

 

default notice very questionable on the days to rectify, any unfair charges on the account making the amount suspect?

 

I would ask where clause 7 is on the agreement they have sent you... without it how can they say they are entitled to contractual interest on the balance.

 

NofA, not normally my thing.. surprised on the combo NofA and court claim notification at same time, as I said above normally they should give you a warning before taking you to court. Should bugger up any application they make for costs anyway.

 

S.

[the_shadow]

Oooo and best of luck with the really important matter.. the birth.

 

Regards

 

S.

[the_shadow]

Shadow...Sorry to be a royal pain in the (_)_)...but I am trying to complete an AQ which needs to be in tomorrow at the latest, but I am really struggling. Plus I just read that they looking for £4500 costs

 

Would you be able to give me some guidance? I know it is very short notice.

 

The thread is located here if you get a chance...

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/201020-court-case-3-northern-3.html

 

Sorry didnt get around to this sooner but you are in very good hands....

 

I see CCM has helped yesterday evening.

 

S.

[the_shadow]

Silly question but CL Finance are claiming to have purchased the account from Santander, yet the agreement and Default Notice are from GE Money.

 

When was the account sold to Santander? and surely a NoA from GE Money -> Santander is also needed?

 

Also for assignment to be valid I thought it needed to be issued before court proceedings not after?

 

Is the agreement valid at the bottom of the second page it states you'll be considered for both a mastercard and a storecard - I thought storecards were different than credit cards?

 

If its anything like the takeover from Barclaycard of Goldfish accounts then a simple letter advising they were taking over the running of the accounts would suffice, this would be normal in day to day running of the account.

 

The NoA from GE/Santander to CL should have been given prior to proceedings and a demand of strict proof of such document should be in the defence.

 

Storecards are not covered by CCA1974, CC agreements are. THIS IS WRONG, CHARGECARDS arent covered, storecards and credit cards ARE covered by the CCA1974

 

S.

Edited July 6, 2009 by the_shadow

[the_shadow]

Bit confused here Shadow?

 

Just had a look at what GE claims to be an enforceable (unreadable micrfiche) agreement - one thing that is readable is Debenhams Store Card, Credit Agreement, regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Beachy

 

Sorry my bad so to speak

 

I meant chargecards not storecards, storecards are like credit cards but with the loverly extra 10-15% APR added on and ARE covered, charge cards are the pay everything by the end of the month and arent covered unless they provide some sort of credit facility past the usual month cycle I believe.

 

 

S.

[the_shadow]

Can I ask then,

Does everything appear to be above board here?

Is the CCA ok?

Notice of assignment ok?

Default Notice?

etc etc... can anyone suggest what angle to go down here?

 

The Default Notice says "Before the date shown" quite a few times, but there is no date specified. I would probably go with invalid Default Notice here

 

I do not have a Termination notice, therefore I cannot argue with that, I will have to ask them for a copy. In all the activity with my ready to Pop wife, I forgot to send a CPR Request

 

I am confused now by the NOA ...anyone able to clear that up?

 

You say the agreement would be considered enforceable - ****!! Could I claim illegibility on the off chance they do not have the original?

 

I am really trying to find something that they have done wrong lol

 

Regarding Clause 7 ...I will check the t's&c's ...i didnt bother scanning them as I never thought they would refer to it duh!!

 

Kind Regards

 

Ok this is just my opinion,

 

I dont think you can class the agreement as illegible, I can clearly read the prescribed terms and if its your signature on the page 1 then I class it as enforceable although :-

 

1) Was this signed for on the business address or did you post it back to them, there is no right to cancel box which whilst not a prescribed term its prejudicial against you.

 

2) It looks like microfiche and the court might not give the same weight to it or even accept it (down to judge lottery)

 

3) The Default Notice as you say doesnt contain a rememedy date, it alludes to a date, again this will be down to judge lottery

 

4) NofA from DCA and claim, this is a clear abuse of the court process but I dont think they'll be sanctioned for it, most that will happen is if they apply for any type of court costs you state they didnt forewarn you about court action and hence have gone against CPR where clearly a LBA should have been issued.

 

5) No NofA from Santander, this is worth arguing about as far as I'm concerned, you had a debt, it was sold and you were not advised, the other firm came asking you for money. It could have been anyone, you werent to know the debt had been sold. by the law of property you should have been told. Are you SURE you received no letter stating your account was migrated?

 

6) The POC's claim that you had an agreement with Santander UK, this is factually incorrect as I see it and it should mention that the agreement was made with GE Money. You could possibly apply for strike out on this basis but the claimant can adjust the POC's with the courts permission.

 

As ever just my opinion.

 

S.

[the_shadow]

Your opinion may just save the day Shadow I will build a defence around those points.

 

Thanks so much for taking the time

 

Oh and I cant see there signature on the agreement anywhere? If its not there then its not a proper executed agreement although they can apply to the court to make it enforceable and the court is likely to grant that if its the only problem with the document.

 

S.

[the_shadow]

Hi Shadow.... Here is Clause 7 ... I dont really understand it, so cannot say whether it is correct?

 

26.478% interrest? ...no mention of that on there :O

 

Cheers, can see what they are attempting to do here..

 

You'll need confirmation but I dont think they are entitled to that interest. You signed a contract with GE for the card and to pay interest, they sold a bulk debt to CL finance not an ongoing account hence any contractual terms should only bind you to GE not CL finance.

 

S.

[the_shadow]

Just Realised, I never actually answered any of the questions lol

1) This Storecard agreement was signed on the premises...

 

5) I kept every letter as I knew I would need them...deffo no notifice of assignment from Santander

 

So from what I can make out, the following are my main points

 

1) Default Notice - Invalid

2) Termination Notice - Did not receive one

3) No NofA from Santander to CL Finance

4) Howard Cohen - NofA combined with Claim Notice not giving me any time to rectify the situation

5) POC is innaccurate as it states Agreement was with Santander when it was actually with GE.

 

Where does VIKING fit into all of this? They kept sending me letters too lol...

 

I am a bit confused, and I need to get this off on Friday latest to get to Northampton on Monday.

 

Oh Yeah...#

6) then theres the bit about the interest right?

 

Regards

 

Viking's address is the same as GE Money, I'd say its possibly an internal DCA?

 

Why they are chasing you for monies when a claim has been put into court and supposedly assigned to CL Finance god only knows. Complaint to the OFT possibly

 

S.

[the_shadow]

Ok this is very confusing...

 

Personally I'd say your defence needs to basically deny the debt is owed to CL Finance and therefore they have no standing before the court or right of action, they state an agreement with Santander was allocated to them, you have no knowledge of any agreement with Santander.

 

Whats confusing me is why is the GE Money internal DCA chasing you for payment at the same time I assume they instructed? the DCA CL Finance to chase you with legal action?

 

I'm going to go back to the docs and take another look.

 

S.

[the_shadow]

Ok so to clarify for everyone, timeline is:-

 

Original agreement with GE Capital

Default from GE but not giving a date to rectify, "21 days from receipt of letter"

NO notification of new owner of cards (Santander)

CL say assigned debt from Santander cards on 3rd June

CL Own debt and issue NofA combined with notice of legal action

CL instructed HC & Cohen to issue claim

Viking Direct continue to chase for debt (even though sold to CL Finance)?

 

 

Is that about the size of it?

 

S.

[the_shadow]

Hi All,

An update from the court Cohens have not responded to the court since my defence was submitted. We have passed the 28 days now and are in the final 5 days service time....Hopefully they will not respond at all

 

No news is good news ;-)

 

Expect 4-5 days for the court to get through its post so end of week really.

 

S.

[the_shadow]

Case has been stayed ...what happens next?

 

Ok they would have been sent your defence and an AQ, it now sits in limbo until the other side file their AQ and pay the fee.

 

s.