My first claim against HSBC - Settled

[CheeseOnToast]

OK point taken. I know what you're saying but you do come across very harsh, maybe it's just the way I'm reading it, you know what it's like on the internet/email.

 

Phil

[paulmc60]

I agree. I've found that some call centre staff will try to be as helpful as possible but with others you need to be very assertive. Which doesn't mean rude or nasty. Luck of the draw who answers your call and what side of bed they got out of I guess.

[Spiceskull]

Do I really honestly sound harsh? I hope not. However, I want the bank to be in no doubt whatsoever that I intend to get my money back. I use implicit language, so that there is no margin for misunderstanding, and I try to ensure that every angle is covered, pre-empting the standardised responses they may or may not come back with.

 

My bank has dicked me around for 24 years - it is time for this to stop, and being on this group has given me the absolute confidence to ensure that it does stop. I am in control (or so I would like to believe ) and I want to ensure that the bank realises and recognises this.

 

Yes, I want to face them in the court, yes, I would love that more than anything, but at the end of the day I want the bank to respect me as a customer...and do the right thing.

 

To see the steps I took to recover unfair bank charges with the help of Consumer Action Group, please read my thread Spiceskull v HSBC.

[Spiceskull]

***UPDATE***

 

Following my letter to the bank a fortnight ago in response to a statement indicating charges due to be applied (and were applied) yesterday, I have just received the following reply:

Dear Mr Skull

 

Thank you for your e-message dated 5 April 2006.

 

After reviewing your bank account, I can confirm that the overdraft review fees of GBP50.00 incurred during charging period 16 February 2006 to 15 March 2006 were due to the following :

 

3 March 2006 - GBPXXX.XX overdrawn

7 March 2006 - GBPXXX.XX overdrawn

 

The charges have been applied correctly. However, I have exceptionally refunded GBP50.00 as a gesture of goodwill.

Please be advised that no further refunds will be made in respect of future charges correctly applied in accordance with the Bank's standard tariff.

 

Please note that we will only charge an overdraft review fee of GBP25.00 every time you go overdrawn or further overdrawn without our agreement or exceed or further exceed an agreed overdraft limit. We also promise that we will not charge overdraft review fees for:

 

- Any borrowing not agreed with us in advance, if this is the first time this has happened in the last six months.

- Small overdrafts not agreed with us in advance (not more than GBP10.00) or for overdrafts above an agreed limit if the excess borrowing is small (not more than GBP10.00).

- Borrowing without an agreed overdraft limit if the borrowing is GBP50.00 or less and was for no more than 14 days in any one charging month.

 

In order to prevent overdraft review fees from being applied to your bank account in future, may I suggest that you apply for an increase in your overdraft limit. If you wish to do so, please contact us via this e-messaging system or you may call us on 08457 404 404. Alternatively, you may also call in to your local HSBC branch.

 

I trust this matter has been resolved to your satisfaction.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Mr M Bowden

Manager Customer Credit Services

Knowing how belligerent I can be, should I reply, expressing my thanks, and also pushing for a reason for this sudden magnanimity, or should I leave it until my 'biggie' claim comes up in a couple of weeks?

 

(do I put this in the 'winnings' thread?)

 

To see the steps I took to recover unfair bank charges with the help of Consumer Action Group, please read my thread Spiceskull v HSBC.

[apollo69]

Have you filed? I wouldn't bother responding. I have just got a similar one but for £250 as I could prove an error by an agent who promised refund of OD fees in Jan before I discovered here. He had not refunded so led to more and more. They have nicely left me still £17 OD so this will cause another charge....

 

Claim to be filed tomorrow.

[Spiceskull]

As I got a refund (albeit 24 hours later) it would seem pointless to file the claim. After all, what would I actually be claiming for?

 

However, regarding the refund itself, and also the timing, I have another thread going, trying to determine if 'charges pending' can actually be prevented...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=3847

 

If there is no way to prevent the application of the charge, I am considering another communication to the bank. It may seem cheeky, but they will soon realise the absurdity of the situation:

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Following your capitulation over charges pending, I wish to set up two automated processes to my account. These are:

 

a) when charges pending are notified to me, that you automatically receive a letter asking for charges to be prevented

b) 24 hours after charges have been applied, my account is refunded the charges that were removed

 

Yours faithfully,

Mr Skull

Obviously this is very off the wall, but someone, somewhere in the bank will sit up and question why I want to make this request in the first place...

 

To see the steps I took to recover unfair bank charges with the help of Consumer Action Group, please read my thread Spiceskull v HSBC.

[apollo69]

Oh, I didn't realise that that was your whole claim. In that case, then clearly you are right, no reason to issue a claim. Something tells me your proposed letter would get a "your comments have been noted" letter. ie no way jose!

[apollo69]

now I understand. This was just an interim claim...

[Spiceskull]

This wasn't my main claim - that will be raised this Friday, for about £3.5K

 

This was for a new set of charges, not associated with my initial request for refund (I got my statement after the bank got my letter). The gist of this refund was:

This morning I received a statement from [bANK], stating their intent to unlawfully apply penalty charges to my account on [DATE]. These charges are to the sum of £XX, as well as an interest penalty of £X.XX for the 'privilege' of this unlawful action being undertaken.

 

As you are aware, I have asked you to demonstrate to me that these punitive charges are fair and just, that they are lawful, and that they are being lawfully applied. You have failed to demonstrate this to date, and therefore it is implied by your refusal or inability to supply such demonstration, that these penalties are, indeed, unlawful.

 

Therefore, I would draw your attention to the following point: you have stated that these charges will be applied on [DATE]. If these charges ARE applied, then you will be required to explain why you have, in my view, committed a pre-meditated breach of the law, and I will be reporting such breach to all of the relevant authorities.

 

However, as this has not yet happened, I require that you take action forthwith, and cancel this transaction prior to its execution. Furthermore, I require confirmation, in writing, that this transaction will, indeed, be cancelled.

 

I shall be checking my account on [DATE], and if I see that the penalty charges, plus interest, have been unlawfully applied to my account, I shall lodge a claim at the county court to recover these charges, plus my costs and interest calculated at 8% APR, without hesitation. Furthermore, I shall require that you confirm whether these unlawful charges have resulted in a default notice against my record with credit reference agencies, and if so, I will seek appropriate action to have this notice removed.

 

To see the steps I took to recover unfair bank charges with the help of Consumer Action Group, please read my thread Spiceskull v HSBC.

[apollo69]

It looks like that they have ignored your request for confirmation that your credit file is clear.

[Spiceskull]

They still have about 10 days left on the DPA request. However, I managed to calculate my claim using online statements, and have checked my own credit file after requesting a copy from Experian.

 

There is nothing on it regarding HSBC, but if they don't fulfil my DPA request, and the credit request, I will will be reporting them anyway...

 

To see the steps I took to recover unfair bank charges with the help of Consumer Action Group, please read my thread Spiceskull v HSBC.

[Spiceskull]

Is anyone else being kept in the dark by HSBC over their DPA request...? Just sent another message off via the HSBC secure webmail feature - it is not as if they haven't been given plenty of notice:

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Further to my letter of 12th March, and subsequent reminders, I am still waiting for my transaction history between March 2002 and March 2006. To date the only communication I have received is my statement history from March 2000 to March 2002.

 

I also made a request for confirmation that manual intervention had taken place within my account, or confirmation that it had not taken place if this was the case.

 

I would be grateful if you could give me an update on progress over this issue, as the bank now has 11 days remaining in which to fully comply with my request. Failure to comply fully will result in a complaint being made to the Information Commissioner.

 

Yours faithfully,

Mr Skull.

 

To see the steps I took to recover unfair bank charges with the help of Consumer Action Group, please read my thread Spiceskull v HSBC.

[neilloffhagen]

I've just recieved all my DPA info. It did come in two stages. Last week I had 30 envelopes and yesterday another 10 which gave me the complete 6 years worth. They used the standard A5, not the A4 that some poeple have mentioned.

 

Two weeks back I called up customer servcies to ask why I hadn't had anyrthing yet and it is since then that they all came through. Whilst on the phone to them they mentoned that HSBC has now set up a special dept to deal with DPA as they are getting so many requests now. Supposedly you just call customer services, select option 2 which is the one for complaints, etc and then ask to be put through to the DPA dept. I did try that but whilst waiting to be transfered the phone went dead Haven't tried again, as now have all the stuff needed.

 

Neil.

[Spiceskull]

So, what you are saying is that there was a four week gap between the first and last parts of your request being fulfilled? Cool...I suppose I need to learn a little patience...

 

To see the steps I took to recover unfair bank charges with the help of Consumer Action Group, please read my thread Spiceskull v HSBC.

[neilloffhagen]

Despite english being my first (only) language, clarity is not always there

 

If was not a four week gap between the parts being supplied, but approx four weeks since sending the DPA letter before the first lot arrived and then a week later the second batch arrived.

 

It might be worth phoning them up, at least they'll be reminded then? As mentioned in the thread I started, I did get a letter from the bank saying the DPA stuff was on it's way. Did you get such a letter?

 

Neil.

[Spiceskull]

Apart from the first batch of statements about four weeks ago, I have heard diddly squat. I must have written/emailed about 6 times...all with no response, other than 'your query is being looked into...'

 

Still, they still have ten days...

[Spiceskull]

Thought I would check up on my bank today...and got exactly the response I wanted...

 

Decided to draw some money out, realising that it would probably take me over my limit (goading is good...). Sure enough, my limit was allowed to be exceeded...and therefore I waited for the 'overdraft review process' to occur.

 

Lo and behold, the withdrawn money showed up immediately, on my balance at the ATM, so the overdraft review process must have been all of 10 seconds...

 

Now, the fee for the overdraft review is £30...which means that they earn £10,800 an hour, just for reviwing overdrafts...

 

Nice money if you can get it...

[dave]

Just a thought, but if you have no overdraft that they could call in, you could try excersising your rights under the UTCCR's and having the contract changed - to pay say, £1 when a breach occurs.

 

For them to dictate the contract terms without input from you and to refuse to enter into contract negotiations is a breach of the UTCCR's in my opinion.

[Spiceskull]

This is a similar point to a discussion I was having tonight...if a contract (or specific clause) is drawn up without input from both parties, the clause/contract can be deemed unfair, and therefore challenged in law. It makes you wonder how the banks could work round this as all contracts are 'printed in advance' and all you need to do is sign on the dotted line...

Unfair Terms

5. - (1) A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer.

 

(2) A term shall always be regarded as not having been individually negotiated where it has been drafted in advance and the consumer has therefore not been able to influence the substance of the term.

 

(3) Notwithstanding that a specific term or certain aspects of it in a contract has been individually negotiated, these Regulations shall apply to the rest of a contract if an overall assessment of it indicates that it is a pre-formulated standard contract.

 

(4) It shall be for any seller or supplier who claims that a term was individually negotiated to show that it was.

But all I was trying to test today was what constitutes the 'overdraft review' for which I am charged a fee...

[Spiceskull]

*** Mini Update ***

 

Decided that as we have the next few days off, my deadline for the bank would be a little inconvenient all round (Sunday). Therefore decided to hand deliver a FINAL letter before action, reminding the bank that I would be raising a claim, but that this would now be on Tuesday.

 

I offered them the opportunity to settle between now and then, gave them all the guff about how reasonable and accommodating I have been, and that I sincerely hope court action would not be necessary. However, should it prove to be the case, then I would also raise a complaint with OFT regarding Consumer Credit Act 1974, and request that the bank's license be revoked...see BF's thread elsewhere...

 

With an hour to kill (13:30 - 14:30) decided to pop down to the court, have a nosey around, and get myself crystal clear on filling in the forms. Court was closed - Thursday lunchtime, the doors say that opening hours were right...etc etc etc...

 

Bugger...Tuesday here I come.

[Spiceskull]

Oh dear, oh dear, oh deary deary me...has anyone got a great big 'hitting' thing I can borrow?

 

Just logged onto my online banking account, and right there, in front of my eyes...

£56.38. The amount shown will be deducted from your account on 07 May 2006.

Don't they ever learn...? Can I really find some more really long words to demonstrate my ire and utter contempt...of course I can, and nothing will give me greater pleasure...

[Spiceskull]

Quick Update (sorry, I have a tight work deadline so will be quiet for a few days - everyone heaves a sigh of relief ) This is the only response I ever seem to get from HSBC online secure message service:

Dear Mr Skull

 

Thank you for your e-message dated 18 April 2006.

 

I noticed that this matter is still being dealt by my colleagues at the relevant department. Please note that I have today advised them to deal with your enquiry on priority. You shall be contacted once the matter has been resolved.

 

Please be assured that we endeavour to resolve this matter as soon as possible.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Mr M Bowden

Manager Customer Credit Services

My response:

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Thank you for your reply. However, I find the monotony and repetitiveness of responses from the bank to be truly depressing. You have been advising me for the past four weeks that my concerns are being handled 'on priority.'

 

I appreciate your assistance, but would respectfully suggest that, were it as 'on priority' as my request and concerns, you would acquiesce to an immediate refund of all the penalty charges arbitrarily imposed on my account within the last six years, as per my original demand.

 

I would also remind you that the 40 day deadline for fulfilling my DPA request expires tomorrow. Therefore I shall be contacting the Information Commissioner to complain about your laxity over this issue. Additionally, as per my earlier communications, tomorrow I shall be raising a claim in the courts for a full and unconditional refund of my money.

 

I believe that I have given the bank sufficient time to consider and deal with my requests. That time has now expired.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Mr Skull.

Yet more evidence of automated repetition - it drives me bananas...

 

Tomorrow I will actually be raising my claim at the court (a few days late, I know) but it coincides with the bank's DPA deadline expiry. I'm going to have a busy weekend.

[norvernrob]

It doesn't suprise me that they haven't sent you your dpa details, as I sent a prelim letter requesting payment and got a dpa form back!

 

'Merchant bankers' springs to mind.

[Spiceskull]

A question for those who have gone before:

 

Tomorrow is the expiry date for HSBC to fulfil my DPA request. As it is highly unlikely that 50+ envelopes will drop though my letterbox tomorrow, I intend to draft a complaint to the Information Commissioner.

 

Having checked his site, and viewed the complaints procedures and forms, I wanted to know if anyone else has actually written and complained about non-compliance...

 

Did you write an accompanying letter, what did you put on the form, what else did you consider relevant.

 

I'm a proper moaner me, and I really want my complaint to be heard, so any copy/text that anyone could offer me will be appreciated.

 

Thanks,

The Skull.

[Spiceskull]

Right - deep breath, nice relaxing shower, cup of tea, another deep breath...

 

...everything is printed off, and in a nice tidy order...court, here I come! Fingers crossed.