Have I got a criminal record?

[trickmouse]

I was very stupid and altered a train ticket to avoid paying. I admit what I did and regret it now. I had hoped it had gone away but rather obviously it has caught up with me. I will pay the fine as I am supposed to but my question is does this mean that I now have a criminal record?

[Polamage]

if the fine is from the train company,you will not have a record as the police will not have been involved.

[Old-CodJA]

if the fine is from the train company,you will not have a record as the police will not have been involved.

 

That is not strictly true.

 

If the case was brought before a Magistrates Court and a conviction recorded by the Bench, then there is a record which can be put onto the PNC.

 

Direct involvement of the Police is not required to bring a prosecution.

 

Much depends on where the case was heard and who brought the prosecution and how the Summons application was made.

 

There are a number of prosecution units across the country, some are part of the TOC establishment and some are agents who act on behalf of the various TOCs

Edited May 22, 2009 by Old-CodJA

[Old-CodJA]

It is pretty easy really - if the police were called and you were detained, processed etc. etc. and went to court, found guilty THEN yes.. otherwise no.

 

Sorry, but that is not true. The Police do NOT have to be involved at the time of the offence at all.

 

A good example in other walks of life is the RSPCA, who bring private prosecutions and which result in criminal records if successful. The same applies to the Rail Companies.

 

These cases are heard in what are known as non-CPS Court lists.

[Scaredsheep]

You might find it helpful to contact nacro (Nacro - changing lives, reducing crime), following the link to spent convictions etc. as they are experts in this field. If a conviction is recorded ( and it may not be if the offence is categorised as "non recordable") they can advise you how long it stays on your record and how long you need to declare it as a conviction.

 

The best of luck.

[badwan]

I am still awaiting contact from Southeastern rail when I had to rush home urgently (didn't buy a ticket) and was caught. As I'm in a similar sort of situation to the gentleman above I wondered if anyone could help me out. I was given a witness statement, I had no means to pay a fine or pay for a ticket. What should I expect? Although a large fine would be quite damaging, it avoids hassle. However the inspector who practially pushed me around because he didn't believe I was who I said I was (despite me showing him proof of address and NI number through my payslip) said very threateningly "you're going to court mate" . So yes, very worried and wondered if there is anything I can do in the mean time, i.e. be proactive about finding out what will happen next. The incident happened on 12th May and I haven't heard anything from them. Please could you help me regarding this as I already posted a thread about 3 weeks ago to no reply.

[Old-CodJA]

I had no means to pay a fine or pay for a ticket. What should I expect?

 

I am sorry if this isn't the reply you might have hoped for, but I have to say that the decision for any prosecutor is very clear deciding the answer to your query.

 

Given the quote highlighted above is from your own statement, I think that this should be borne in mind when considering how this incident came about and what you might expect to happen now.

 

The legislation is absolutely clear in this situation.

 

Any person, who has neither a valid ticket, nor the means to pay the fare due on demand, has no right to board any train.

 

You should expect to receive a Summons

[badwan]

.

 

You should expect to receive a Summons

 

 

Is there any way of knowing how soon I will recieve this?

 

It's been 42 days since the incident.

[Old-CodJA]

I regret that it is not possible to say how long this will take other to advise that the rail company must lay the information with the Court office within 6 months of the incident

 

If they fail to do so the case cannot be heard in a Magistrates Court although in some cases they could at least theoretically go for a civil debt process in a County Court that can be heard up to two years after the incident. In my experience that is a very rare occurrence and almost all cases go before a Magistrates court

 

All of that means that it can take as much as 8 months from date of 'offence' to date of Magistrates Court hearing, but in practice it is usually much quicker than that

 

I'd say that 3 to 4 months is not uncommon.

Edited June 22, 2009 by Old-CodJA

[badwan]

I regret that it is not possible to say how long this will take other to advise that the rail company must lay the information with the Court office within 6 months of the incident

 

If they fail to do so the case cannot be heard in a Magistrates Court although in some cases they could at least theoretically go for a civil debt process in a County Court that can be heard up to two years after the incident. In my experience that is a very rare occurrence and almost all cases go before a Magistrates court

 

All of that means that it can take as much as 8 months from date of 'offence' to date of Magistrates Court hearing, but in practice it is usually much quicker than that

 

I'd say that 3 to 4 months is not uncommon.

 

 

Just an update.

 

I consulted my solicitor on this, once I'd received the summons. She sent them a letter explaining the fact that I hadn't done it before, was co-operative and was very sorry, and now they've agreed to drop all charges. So I have to pay £127.40 fine, and that's it, no criminal record, no trial.

[tweez23]

Just an update.

 

I consulted my solicitor on this, once I'd received the summons. She sent them a letter explaining the fact that I hadn't done it before, was co-operative and was very sorry, and now they've agreed to drop all charges. So I have to pay £127.40 fine, and that's it, no criminal record, no trial.

 

Who did your solicitor send the letter to? Was it to the court or the railway?

[SRPO]

Just an update.

 

I consulted my solicitor on this, once I'd received the summons. She sent them a letter explaining the fact that I hadn't done it before, was co-operative and was very sorry, and now they've agreed to drop all charges. So I have to pay £127.40 fine, and that's it, no criminal record, no trial.

 

Very very lucky.

Fraud is seldom dealt with out of court.

[Old-CodJA]

Just an update.

 

I consulted my solicitor on this, once I'd received the summons. She sent them a letter explaining the fact that I hadn't done it before, was co-operative and was very sorry, and now they've agreed to drop all charges. So I have to pay £127.40 fine, and that's it, no criminal record, no trial.

 

Yes, I agree with SRPO, you have been very lucky and of course this kind of settlement can only be achieved by writing to the rail company.

 

A minor point perhaps and maybe just semantics, but it is wrong to say you have a 'fine' to pay.

 

It is an 'agreed settlement', not a 'fine'. Only the Court can impose fines in these cases.

 

Of course you also have your solicitor's bill to pay, so the true cost is considerably higher than the £127 you quote, but at least you have avoided a conviction..

[badwan]

Apologies, of course you're right on all points. I accept that I was very lucky, but I though that any chance (no matter how small) was worth taking when it came to try and not get a criminal record.

 

An agreed settlement+my solicitors invoice is indeed quite a large sum, and one which has put a dent in my finances. However I'd rather have that than get a criminal record for such a petty, stupid moment of judgement.