notice of intended prosecution (speeding)

[carl3381]

Ive just received notice from surrey police of excess speed 30 mph

at the a30 london road staines, speed 0f 39mph(speed not applicable for red light offences)

 

problem is its not telling me whats my fine and points

 

but theres no static speed cameras for 30mph on this road (been back and checked) but there is a duel carrarage way which goes from 40 to 30(only 200 yards long) before the red lights

 

its basicly asking for my address and details within 28 days (i admint was me because the times match up)

 

how should i approach this and anyone got idea if its going to be a court apperance or fixed fine and how many points as ive already got 6 points?

 

your help would be much obliged

[dave882]

It may depend on the police force as some forces have driver improvement schemes. A friend of mine set off a speed camera and at a similar speed as you and was offered the chance to pay for a driver improvement scheme which she did. The charge was about £90.00 but no points.

 

For your speed you can probably be offered 3 points and a £60.00 fine if you agree accept the offence.

 

Failing to answer the notice can mean, if found guilty in Court, an automatic 6 points and a larger fine.

[lamma]

how do you get 6 points from 39 in a 30 ? I suggest it would be three points.

[david1605red]

... problem is its not telling me whats my fine and points ...

What you have is a request to provide or confirm the identity of the driver, which you must do within 28 days, or risk being done for a Section 172 offence (up tp 6pts / £1000 fine).

 

Once you've sent back the signed form, they will either make you a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (3pts + £60), or an offer to attend a speed awareness course, which costs a bit more but no points.

 

Should you choose to contest the ticket, then it goes to court, and if you lose your fine/costs and points may be higher, but if you win you're home free, and can claim your own costs.

[patdavies]

how do you get 6 points from 39 in a 30 ? I suggest it would be three points.

 

 

Correct, three points for the speeding.

 

Dave882's point was about s.172 - which is 6 points

[lamma]

correct. My mistake. mustn't speed read as much.

[crem]

correct. My mistake. mustn't speed read as much.

 

and how many points is it for this offence of speeding whilst reading then lamma?

[lamma]

reading the road is a good thing

[carl3381]

do you think its worth sending a covering letter asking for the awareness course

[MalMonroe]

Dear carl3381

 

A similar thing happened to me just before Christmas a couple of years ago. They said I was doing 36 in a 30mph zone but on the road I was on, the speed limit changes from 40 to 30 very quickly. Anyway, I spent the whole holiday period worrying and whittling as I already had 6 points on my licence which were due to come off the following August. I did send a covering letter asking to go on one of the courses and it didn't do me any harm! It's worth asking, and what do you have to lose? They seem to respond better to drivers who show remorse and are willing to change their (very bad!) ways. You still have to pay, of course but you don't have to suffer more points. I must admit that I am now much more speed-aware - sometimes it's the shock you need!

All the best, and good luck.

[patdavies]

do you think its worth sending a covering letter asking for the awareness course

 

Which constabulary - they don't all offer speed awareness courses?

[carl3381]

Which constabulary - they don't all offer speed awareness courses?

 

It is surrey constabulary and would they offer it for 39 in a 30

[david1605red]

It is surrey constabulary and would they offer it for 39 in a 30

Possibly, the ACPO guidelines say that the upper limit is 10% + 6 mph, which would be 39 in a 30. No harm in asking.

[patdavies]

It is surrey constabulary and would they offer it for 39 in a 30

 

I don't think that Surrey offer speed awareness courses. There is nothing about it on the SCP web site

[carl3381]

thanks your help people

[mrsmushroom]

What you have is a request to provide or confirm the identity of the driver, which you must do within 28 days, or risk being done for a Section 172 offence (up tp 6pts / £1000 fine).

 

Once you've sent back the signed form, they will either make you a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (3pts + £60), or an offer to attend a speed awareness course, which costs a bit more but no points.

 

Should you choose to contest the ticket, then it goes to court, and if you lose your fine/costs and points may be higher, but if you win you're home free, and can claim your own costs.

 

sorry to bring up an old thread, but I have a question on FPN and the time length to respond.

 

Today I was out driving and I came to a set of traffic lights which has a camera to detect drivers going through red lights.

 

As I approached the camera (this being on a dual carriage way, which has a speed limit of 40mph - I was within speed) it turned to amber. I went through the light on amber as I was virtually on top of the traffic lights as they changed.

 

I wasn't quite sure if the camera flashed me or not. If it did, and I get a FPN, how long do I have to respond to inital confirmation notice (i.e. to confirm my name / address before they send the actual FPN which requests driving licence and payment). I am due to go on holiday in 3 days (of which I have moaned about on another thread) for 2 weeks. I have read somewhere that it was 7 days to reply to the first notice, somewhere else says 14 days and somewhere else says 28 days. I know the actual FPN is meant to be 28 days. Can someone clear it up for me please??? Thanks in advance.

Edited August 4, 2009 by mrsmushroom

[MalMonroe]

Hello, Mrs Mushroom,

I hope the worry of it doesn't spoil your holiday for you! This has happened to me a couple of times in the past - I've carried on through when the light has been on amber-just-about-to-turn-red and nothing's happened. It seems to me that the camera isn't triggered to go off until the light has actually changed to red. If it was still on amber as you went through, I think it will be okay.

I hope this is helpful info - there's nothing worse than worrying and whittling when you are supposed to be enjoying yourself.

It sometimes takes them a while to get around to notifying people anyway because they don't seem to empty cameras on a daily basis. And after all, it is holiday season! (If the rain ever stops, that is.) Good luck but I'm sure it will be okay, as long as the light wasn't showing red when you went through. ;-)

[crem]

YOu have 28 days to respond to a s172 request for drivers details. Until you reply to this nothing else can proceed because, as it was an alledged driving offence, then they need to know who was driving in the first place.

[MalMonroe]

Yes but first don't you have to have actually committed a driving offence? In mrsmushroom's case I don't think she has. I think that the 'knowing who was driving' business is always a bit dodgy and I'd never try to get away with pretending it wasn't me actually driving the car that's registered in my name. But that's just me.

[mrsmushroom]

thanks for the replies guys.

 

I do tend to worry though as I beat myself up over doing silly / stupid things sometimes. It was more to put myself at ease in case it was 7/14 days and I was away if anything did come through.

[patdavies]

14 days refers to the limitation that the Police have to serve the NIP on the registered keeper.

[PVLCC]

Another N.I.P conundrum !

 

We have a lease vehicle from the VW /Audi Group, and we believe that they are the registered keeper as we do not hold a V5 for the vehicle.

 

A NIP was received on 20 January 2010 relating to a speeding offence caught on Lastec camera on 2 January 2010. The NIP was dated 19 January 2010 (outside the 14 days).

 

The NIP was addressed to our Son, c/o our Company name.

 

We wrote to the Police stating that the Reg Keeper was incorrect and the NIP was 'time-barred'.

 

Upon speaking to the Police about this they said they had '6 months to prosecute' and would re-issue the NIP.

 

Another NIP duly arrived dated 10 February 2010 (same reference number however addressed to my wife and not c/o the Company name.

 

Upon speaking to the Police again a helpful gent in the camera enforcement Department said that the original NIP was served on the Reg Keeper on 7 January 2010 (within the 14 days).

 

There has been no written evidence of this received by us to date.

 

The registered keeper we believe is still the VW Audi group so technically the NIP has not been served correctly (notwithstanding the 'slip-rule').

 

Any ideas anyone.

 

For general info the speed recorded by the Lastec was 71 on a 60 dual carriageway.

[lamma]

14 days (barring some well known execeptions, new reg, change of address, DVLA probs) is ONLY for the first NIP in the chain, the rest can arrive much later - and obviously will.

[PVLCC]

Yes thats well known however, if VW Audi are the registered keeper and the NIP is only supposed to be served on the 'Registered Keeper' isn't that a kind of loophole, because if they send the NIP to any of my family then that is not served on the Registered Keeper and theoretically the VW Audi Group would have to offer some explanations as to who was driving. As there are at least three possibilities for driving this vehicle, do you think the next step for the Police would be to attempt to summons the Company name (even though we are a small family based firm and not a major player with many possible employees) ? Following on from that, should the NIP be so worded as to include 'users' as opposed to 'keepers' ?

[Old Snowy]

The thing to keep in mind here is that what is termed an NIP actually fulfills two distinct legal purposes. Firstly, it is intended to put a driver on notice that an allegation has been made with the intention that he is able to recall the circumstances and prepare an explanation and/or defence. Secondly - and importantly - it also contains a requirement made within the terms of S. 172 Road Traffic Act 1988 that the recipient identify the driver at the time of the alleged offence (or supply such information as is in their power to give that may lead to the identification of the driver).

 

The necessity to serve the NIP on the registered keeper within 14 days only relates to the Notice of Intended Prosecution portion of the document. It does not relate to the s.172 requirement indeed there is no specified timescale within which such a requirement has to be made other than would otherwise be brought about as a result of the statute of limitation in relation to the prosecution of the offences being investigated.

 

In all probability VW/Audi will have received their own NIP (the first in the chain) and as a result identified your son/wife as the keeper*/driver at the time and a further NIP has been issued. The apparent delay in the issue of the NIP to your son would fit with this scenario.

 

The police do not have to provide any evidence, at this stage, of the chain of NIP's they have issued - if any. Your wife (the NIP is addressed to her) is however now under an obligation to identify the driver at the time of the alleged offence within the 28 days stipulated in the Act. Failure to do so will leave her liable to a substantial fine (£350 is fairly typical) and 6 points.

 

I suggest that she complete the relevant sections and return it within the 28 days - making sure to keep copies of everything including the envelopes the NIP arrive in if they are still available.

 

Have the police indicated that the first NIP (to your son) has been withdrawn? If they haven't I strongly suggest that he reply to it as soon as possible otherwise he may find that he gets clobbered with a "failure to furnish" (not complying with the s.172 requirement) summons. If he sends off his reply on Monday (by Special Delivery - extra costs but it will ensure prompt delivery) he will still be in time.

 

* In this context the word "keeper" effectively means the person holding the keys and shouldn't be confused with the term "registered keeper". The use of the word keeper has a specific legal context hence its use. None of this is explained to the poor motorist, of course.