Cupcake vs Egg 03

[cupcake68]

Hi WM

 

Thanks for your advice

 

Do you mean the Brian Carter letter? It doesn't say much more than I quoted but it definitely says "we have now issued litigation proceedings in the county court. You will receive the claim form in the next 48 hours direct from the court"

 

I can post it up if it helps though!

 

Cupcake

[Bigdebtor]

All I can say is I DID ring them - and e-mailed - and agreed to pay £5 per month to stop "further action".

 

I personally consider this a cheap way of avoiding any further hassle whilst I await the result of PT's test case - but each to his own!

 

BD

[gh2008]

Ok, quick scan of your thread and you do have the original DN & TN.

 

If I were you I would SAR Egg today and get as much info as you can.

A SAR to Egg rarely turns up nothing useful

 

IMHO there is something wrong with the claim as they are using Carter rather than a proper solicitor.

 

JMHO though

[Bigdebtor]

Thanks for the quick response BD

 

I have just spoken to FOS (great minds!) and there is nothign they can do if Egg decide to issue proceedings whilst the complaint is ongoing but they can get any judgement removed after the event if they decide it was not correct to do so.

 

I am nervouse to call BC and make a payment because I am sure I have read elsewhere that that is accepting the debt in some way.

 

Can anyone confirm or deny this?

 

Thanks guys!

 

Cupcake

 

1. I would check with OFT or FSA if Egg/Bryan Carter are breaking OFT or FSA guidleines by doing this while the case is still ongoing.

2. You can agree to make a token payment without accepting liability - pending clarification. After all (putting aside dodgy DN's, TN's etc.) until PT's case is settled NO ONE KNOWS if the Egg debts are enforceable or not - that is assuming they CAN find the original signed CCA.

3. Without the original signed CCA they SHOULD NOT be able to ENFORCE the CCA in Court - but it might (but shouldn't) depend on how dodgy the judge is.

 

BD

 

BTW - I heard this morning the OFT boss is the highest paid "mandarin" - so he'll be well used to not being able to afford to keep up with HIS debts!!!!

[gh2008]

All I can say is I DID ring them - and e-mailed - and agreed to pay £5 per month to stop "further action".

 

I personally consider this a cheap way of avoiding any further hassle whilst I await the result of PT's test case - but each to his own!

 

BD

 

Problem is that won't stop them in 6 months when they suddenly ask for the full amount and submit a claim a week later .........

 

been there done that ....... and won !!

[WelshMam2009]

Hi WM

 

Thanks for your advice

 

Do you mean the Brian Carter letter? It doesn't say much more than I quoted but it definitely says "we have now issued litigation proceedings in the county court. You will receive the claim form in the next 48 hours direct from the court"

 

I can post it up if it helps though!

 

Cupcake

 

Yes Cupcake, I did mean the BC letter...only to see if it definitely stated that that had issued proceedings. I'm sure you know that a lot of these letters are strategically written into making you think that things have or will happen when in fact there are a lots of "we may..." type statements in there.

 

I'm slightly bemused as to why they would even bother sending you this letter as the court papers would arrive in the post in due course anyway.

 

On a reassuring note, I get the impression that BC frequently mess up their litigation so that goes in your favour.

 

Quickly looked through your thread. Is your argument that the account was unlawfully terminated whilst in dispute??

[cupcake68]

Thanks everyone!

 

I will SAR them today and also get the reply from Egg back to the FOS (apparently it is classed as their final response even though it doesn't say so - I thought that was a must!)

 

How long roughly does it take from this point to get to court? Will I have time to get the info on SAR ?

 

Thanks again

 

Cupcake

[WelshMam2009]

On a related note, I'm not sure if PT's case will have any bearing on this agreement which was taken out in 2007 and appears to adopt the newer Citi style agreement as opposed to the old Egg one.

 

I did check online to see when Citi took over Egg and that was in 2007. It might be interesting to know on what date the format of the agreement changed though. (I get the impression the deal was finalised on 1 May 2007 but naturally had been going on for a long time before that with regulatory approval obtained in late January).

[Bigdebtor]

Problem is that won't stop them in 6 months when they suddenly ask for the full amount and submit a claim a week later .........

 

6 months is a long time in the debt juggling game - and only costs £30 at £5 per month - lots can happen in that time - most likely in our favour!

 

But each to his/her own.

 

All we should do is say what we have done, or what we would do - not what the other CAGGER MUST do. Only the person themselves can make the final choice.

 

BD

[WelshMam2009]

Thanks everyone!

 

How long roughly does it take from this point to get to court? Will I have time to get the info on SAR ?

 

 

Varies on your local court's caseload, but absolutely ages (several months+) in my experience....plus you have the summer holidays approaching I'm not sure if one of the CPR routes might apply but if it's BC and not Egg as the claimant then a SAR may well be necessary for the latter.

 

Make sure that you are prescriptive in respect of the SAR list of information you require, including a Comms log.

 

Best of luck!!

[gh2008]

to echo WM's comments - I would expect the claim form to arrive tomorrow, if not Thursday. Then there are many avenues open to you with making CPR requests and application(s) to court to force BC & Egg into a corner.

 

Get ALL your paperwork in order and get it onto Photobucket with all your details removed as it will make advising so much easier with all the info to hand.

 

and yes the SAR is to EGG not BC

 

have a good search of CAG for carter & Egg to cheer yourself up

[cupcake68]

WOW!

 

I'm trying my best to keep up!

 

Yes that is my reason for not paying. Here is a brief (!) outline of events....

 

I CCA'd them (March 2009)

 

They said no agreement so no signature

 

I sent library letter re no signature required

 

They opened a complaint but ignored CCA request

 

I sent account in dispute letter

 

They opened another complaint!!

 

4 weeks later they wrote again about my complaint (first one) being received telling me their enquiries were continuing

 

3 weeks later they responded to "my complaint" (first one). They addressed all my complaints about harrassment etc but said my "concerns relating to my credit agreement have been raised seperately and will be addressed at a later date by customer realtions"

 

A few days later another letter about complaint (2nd one) and their enquiries continuing.

 

2 weeks later DN received giving me 24 days from the day I received it.

 

1 week later legal action pending as I have not responded to their DN

 

3 weeks later DCA chase letter - " Egg is unaware of any recent contact"

 

5 days after the date on their DN they terminate the account.

 

Moorcroft and then Freds chase letters

 

Bemused letter to both

 

Then finally Freds send "My agreement" which is actually a screen print (dated 16/12/09) of my current agreement.

 

More letters from Freds and Brian CarterI sent the standard you must not threaten legal action whilst CCA request is ongoing.

 

Letter from BC threatening action on 23rd Feb if I did not pay

 

I complained to FOS and emailed BC to tell them the situation.

 

Same "agreement" came back from BC

 

FOS replied saying I would hear from Egg with their final response within 8 weeks

 

Egg replied saying they had already complied but would do so again and I would get this by 27th May.

 

No agreement has arrived but BC's letter informing me of court proceedings was dated 26th May although I only received it today.

 

I hope that makes it a bit easier!

 

Cupcake

[cupcake68]

 

 

Make sure that you are prescriptive in respect of the SAR list of information you require, including a Comms log.

 

Best of luck!!

 

Sorry I am out of my depth here!!

 

What is comms log?

 

This is the template letter I was going to send.

 

 

 

Data Protection Act 1998

 

 

 

Subject Access Request

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

 

Please supply me with all data that you hold on me. This includes in particular, but is not limited to, the following:-

 

 

 

1. The original signed, executed credit agreement/s and any terms and conditions that applied to the account/s at the time of default and at the time the account/s was/were opened.

 

 

 

2. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with ORIGINAL CREDITOR. - delete or add this depending on whether you are sending this to the original creditor/or a debt collection agency

 

 

 

 

3. True copies of any notice of assignment and default notices or enforcement notice that you/or name of the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

 

 

 

 

4. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account/s, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date/s they were/ it was added and deleted. (if applicable).

 

 

 

 

5. Details of any collection charges added to the account/s; specifically, the date they were/it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was/charges were calculated, and what the charge covers/charges cover.

 

 

 

 

6. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account/these accounts and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

 

 

 

 

7. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

 

 

 

 

8. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

 

 

 

 

9. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement/s.

 

 

 

 

10.Termination notices

 

 

 

PLEASE NOTE that unless otherwise stated by yourselves and if the above documents are NOT provided, it will be CONFIRMED that you are unable to reproduce/provide in any way shape or form any copies of the above requested documents. You are reminded that you have a duty to inform me if you do not have the above documents. This is confirmed in High Court Law - Ezsias v Welsh Ministers - [2007] All ER (D) 65 (Dec)

 

 

 

You are reminded that you are obliged to supply all the above documents in line with the Information Commissioners Technical Guidance update (Dated August 2007)

 

 

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

Is this correct

 

 

 

Thanks again

 

 

 

Cupcake

[cupcake68]

Another thing.... (sorry)

 

Does anyone think I should write back to BC?

 

If so what should I say?

 

Thank you

 

Cupcake

[WelshMam2009]

The letter looks fine Cupcake. I've seen some where people just say "send me all the info you have" and invariably don't get what they want...even though you'd think that they should!!

 

Add a Comms Log...it stands for Communications Log and should be a computerised record of dates, calls, and action taken in repect of your account.

 

This is what I usually include.....

 

Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor.

 

 

. Full copies or transcripts of any computer logs or database records kept in relation to myself or in relation to my financial or personal information.

[WelshMam2009]

Another thing.... (sorry)

 

Does anyone think I should write back to BC?

 

If so what should I say?

 

Thank you

 

Cupcake

 

No, just ignore them...

[WelshMam2009]

One final thing before I log off...if you have, or have ever had, more than one account with Egg then you can list all account numbers under the one SAR.

[cupcake68]

Thanks so much Welshmam!

 

I'll add that to my letter.

 

I'll ignore BC for now

 

I and my other half both have Egg accounts but I assume you mean in one name!

 

Cheers

 

Cupcake

[MAGDA]

Hi Guys!

 

I sent this letter to BC last week....http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/575-letter-to-solicitors-threatening-legal-action-in-default-of-agreement-request-

 

but crossed in the post, I received a letter from BC on Saturday saying if I do not pay up "COURT PROCEEDINGS WILL BE ISSUED ON 23 FEBRUARY 2010 IF PAYMENT IS NOT RECEIVED AT THIS OFFICE BY THAT DATE"

 

Should I be concerned?

 

Thanks Cupcake

 

Brian Carter are always sending these letters out, I've had quite a few and so have other people I know of, and they don't tend to result in a court claim - it's designed to intimidate you into making a payment. I wouldn't worry too much about it at all. There is a letter around somewhere on the forum that can be used in response - I've used it a few times and BC have then backed down completely. I will have a look later and post it up if I come across it.

 

Magda

[MAGDA]

That's strange, I clicked on a link to "Egg credit agreement, what do I think is wrong with them, and ended up on your actual thread for some reason - strange...

 

Anyway, I can see now that you have had a letter stating that proceedings actually have been issued, rather than will be issued, so it is possible that they have gone that step further.

 

Magda

[cupcake68]

It's Here!!!!

 

Northampton County Court Bulk Centre.

 

What do I do next?

 

Cupcake

[cupcake68]

I take it the first thing to do is complete the acknowledgement of service?

 

How do I go about getting it transferred to my local court?

 

Thanks

 

Cupcake

[gh2008]

relax and chill out

 

Certainly don't get stressed over it as that will not help anyone.

 

Before you get heavily involved in all this you need to ask yourself whether you would be prepared to possibly go to Court and argue your case against a solicitor and/or a barrister in front of a Judge.

 

If your answer is yes then fine, if it's no then also fine, just need to think along a different route.

 

For the former, you have 2 weeks to send in the AOS (Acknowledgement of Service) you can do that online and you show an intention to defend all. That will then give you another 28 days.

 

I expect you will need to apply for an extension to your defence submission time as you will be waiting for the SAR info. No Court will refuse this so that will extend it by another couple of weeks or so.

 

Use this time very wisely read as many threads on here of similar cases and really build up in your head what your account is all about and where to look for errors.

 

Your current argument is very weak i.e. terminating an account in dispute as IMHO they can do it - there is nothing in law to say they can't - whether it is 'good practice' or 'fair practice' or not is certainly debateable but as to whether it is unlawful and they should lose all rights to be repaid because of it is very doubtful.

 

BUT that is not to say you do not have a case.

 

Do you own property? is there equity in it?

 

In your mind what is the worst case scenario - you have to be aware of the risks you cannot just blindly go into litigation just sending template letters thinking that all will be ok.

 

If you don't think you are up to it then I would advise getting proper legal advise and maybe trying to get a 'no win no fee' solicitor. Maybe PM PT as he has a particular penchant for scrambling egg.

 

Probably not what you wanted to hear, but trying to put both sides.

 

Certainly don't panic, or get stressed, take a couple of days to work out how you want to move this forward.

 

Good luck

[gh2008]

I take it the first thing to do is complete the acknowledgement of service?

 

How do I go about getting it transferred to my local court?

 

Thanks

 

Cupcake

 

 

you have 14 days to file the AOS. It will be automatically transferred when/if you defend.

 

Your most urgent point at the moment is building a case and getting all teh info you can.

 

If you submit a 'spurious' defence and then lose, you could open yourself up to considerable £5k-£10k of additional costs as well, so it needs to be done correctly.

[gh2008]

Sorry to be the 'doom & gloom merchant' here.

 

I just think it is best to know the risks before you jump in.

 

This is a claim for £15k + IIRC and therefore Fast Track and possible involvement of Counsel & full costs liabilities.