OH v Cap 1 & Rob Way *** WIN ***

[cymruambyth]

OH has been paying Rob Way ever increasing amounts:sad: When they asked for yet another increase I sent a CCA. I have received this which I'm sure does not contain the prescribed terms

http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp74/cymru_1/Cap1CCA.jpg

 

Am I correct?

Thank you

[cymruambyth]

Thank you for the prompt response, I'll send a variation of http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/582-possible-letter-when-a-questionable-agreementapplication-is-sent.html

[cymruambyth]

Well they have now sent a 'copy of your terms and conditions for this accout' .......

Oh no they haven't:rolleyes: They have sent 7 A4 pages with a hand written reference on the 1st page. Pages are not numbered and there is no reference to the agreement. I think it should be this letter, unless anyone can think of something better!

Thank you

 

 

Dear

Re: − Account/Reference Number

Thank you for your letter of XXXX, the contents of which have been noted.

You have failed to respond to my legal request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

I note that you have replied to the above by sending a copy of an application form and some random Terms and conditions. I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows:

Section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

And more importantly:

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document, the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations there under as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancellable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues

[cymruambyth]

Hi Ida, thanks for the confirmation. I'm not sure but the letter may be one that I found from you in the past. If so, thank you.

[cymruambyth]

This is their latest reply (including errors), surely my last letter covers this?

'Our position remains unchanged, the information supplied fulfills our requirements ubder the Consumer Credit Act 1974; it has been well established that under the CCA a creditor ,ay produce a document representing the terms and conditions of any loan and not the original or a copy of the signed loan agreement.

Upon our assignment we became the data controller and as such are entitled to process your data in accordance with the principles of the Data protection act 1998.

We clearly see from the account that you do dot dispute your liability as you have made several payments already to it.'

[cymruambyth]

Thank you for the reassurance

Even though I spaced out all my battles, their actions all seem to come at once, so it'll be nice to ignore atleast one of them.

[cymruambyth]

They are now trying to speak to oh ........he never seems to be in

They are reviewing the payments and would like him to ring . I feel they have rather a long wait ahead of them. I'll keep phone harassment letter handy, just on case.

[cymruambyth]

Hi bb they aren't getting that far:

'is xxx in

no

I'll phone later'

I'm thinking of testing the waters but haven't yet.

[cymruambyth]

Maybe their latest tactic is confusion......

9/6/9 Thank you for paying.....up for review

10/6/9 You haven't been paying, pay now or else....

15/6/9 'In response to your recent correspondence please be advised we feel that by sending you the coy of your accounts agreement and statements we have fulfilled our statutary rights under the Consumer Credit Act and thereffore confirm that you are liable for this debt. Please contact our office to arrange payment on this account'

And

15/6/9 'In response to your recent correspondence please be advised that bank accounts do not have signed credit agreements and therefore we are unable to provide you with a copy. Please note we have arranged for copies of your account statements to be sent to you direct'

Well, it,s for a credit card, both letters same hybrid signature and both dated 15/6/09, delivered 2nd class on 15/6/9!!!!

[cymruambyth]

Does that mean I should stop composing a wonderful load of b*******t to try and comfuse them?

[cymruambyth]

Right decided to try a succinct letter. Not a bank account and a short application form is a no no. I'm hoping that if I leave out lots of legal jargon and big words they may understand what I am saying :lol:

[cymruambyth]

Just ignore them. I CCA'd them March 08 for a Cap 1 account and got the same. If you write they write back, if you don't you get the odd alleged solicitors letter asking you to call Robbers Way but they have threatened me with court for 8 months now and I have sent 3 letters begging them to do it but they don't. If you want some fun, ring them and wait for the monkey to say 'do you realise this account is with our legal team who are considering legal actions?' and just say 'please take me to court'......then enjoy the silence as the monkey's script goes out the window!!!

 

All talk and definately no action.....they know they are stuffed

 

Well I hope you are right as today's letter states:

'we have fulfilled our obligations and are complety satisfied with the information we have supplied to you.

Please note we will not continue to communicate with you about this and further continuous to avoid payment will result in this account being passed to our legal department'

[cymruambyth]

Yes, I wouldn't be surprised.

I think I have copies of all paperwork from 2002, default notices, you name it

[cymruambyth]

Hi, having read around, I think cpr 31.16 covers trying to get information.

[cymruambyth]

Guess what Horwich Farrelly have sent a threatogram and it's in a Rob Way envelope and from the same address

I guess it's a surprised letter http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/575-letter-to-solicitors-threatening-legal-action-in-default-of-agreement-request- to them.

Also I had sent the cpr 31.16 request to Rob Way on 29th June (which appears to be in postal never never land).

Is it worth a complaint to the SRA?

[cymruambyth]

HW have replied to the cpr 31.16 that I had sent Rob Way;

'Please note as we advised a copy of the agreement has been forwarded to you and we are no longer required to provide further proof of your liability.'

This is the agreement http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp74/cymru_1/Cap1CCA.jpg.

Aren't the cpr different from the CCA requests? I think they are being 'economical with the truth /law'

[cymruambyth]

'An application for disclosure before proceedings have started is permitted under section 33 of the Supreme Court Act 1981 (c.54) or section 52 of the County Courts Act 1984 (c.28).'

 

Is this the correct statement to quote to HF in addition to telling them about the CCA and its requirements?

[cymruambyth]

Thank you Ida, I'll hold fire until the 20th.

[cymruambyth]

Still waiting for cpr 31.16.

HF decided to send a letter from Northampton instead . Will post POC later as I'm not sure about it...

[cymruambyth]

POC

'THe claimant claims outstanding monies due and payable by the defendant under a credit agreementwhereby the defendant agreed to repay with interest the value of the credit obtained.

And the claimant claims

1. The sum of XXXX

2. Interest pursuant to s69 of the County Court Act 1984 at the rate of 8% from xxxx03 to date hereof xxxx days is the sum of xxx.xx

3. Future interest accruing at the daily rate of .41

4. Costs'

Any comments gratefully received!!!!

[cymruambyth]

Rob Way assignes of Cap 1

[cymruambyth]

Bump for any comments on the POC please.

[cymruambyth]

In addition to my bump.....I have just found the default notice

'You must pay the amount that you are over on your credit limit within 10 days of the date on the top of this letter'

I also have a letter dated 3 weeks later saying that 'Cap 1 has terminated your right to credit under the agreement'.

[cymruambyth]

Nothing is highlighted etc etc. Due to age of account it is only 7 days, however as there is no specific date and the amounts are incorrect due to charges, it fails in most requirements.

[cymruambyth]

Yes!!!!!

Rob Way are in default of my CPR 31.16 request. Should I now send a CPR 31.14 to the solicitors? I assume I acknowledge service online and then if I haven't had any reply file an embarrassed defence.