Monument CCA -Help Please

[squidward]

Hi

Received this as a response to my CCA Request is this enforceable ?

 

Along with the below was 4 pages of T&C's which have been produced recently as the original card was with Providian.

 

Thanks

 

Squidward

 

 

 

[42man]

I like the way it says 'subject to approval' at the bottom....i'd say this was a pre contract application, no prescribed terms on the signature page either with no direct references to other terms...it can also sometimes depend on how a judge sees it....

 

Thank you for your response to my request under the Consumer Credit Act section 78.

 

I am pleased to see that you confirm this as a true copy of the original agreement executed by yourselves on the XXXXX. I note you have not included any of the terms and conditions of the 'agreement' at the time the account was opened, therefore you are still in default of my request.

 

As you must realise this agreement does not conform to sections 60(1) and 61(1) of the Consumer credit Act and is therefore unenforceable under section 127(3) of the same act.

 

You had until (date here) to provide me with the true copy I requested. After that date you entered into default of my request and I am therefore advising that the matter is now in dispute . Whilst the matter is in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, make any further charges to the account or pass the account to anybody else.

Please note you may also consider this letter a statutory notice under Section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies including any defaults. Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’, you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you fail to respond within 21 days, I will expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

[alfwithhair]

Totally unenforceable rubbish in my opinion.

Contains none of the required terms

[squidward]

Hi Guys

Just a quick Question is the date XXXXX below the date they put on there reply to me or the date the original agreement was signed ?

Thanks Squidward

"am pleased to see that you confirm this as a true copy of the original agreement executed by yourselves on the XXXXX. I note you have not included any of the terms and conditions of the 'agreement' at the time the account was opened, therefore you are still in default of my request."

[squidward]

Hi Guys

 

OK Account in dispute letter sent what should be my next move or should I just wait ?

 

Cheers Squidward

[squidward]

Hello All

 

Well over the weekend I received these letters form monument and had a couple of telephone calls asking me to call them urgently.

 

Account in dispute letter sent 27 April so still in 21 days

 

What should I do next ?

 

BR

 

Squidward

 

 

Edited May 11, 2009 by squidward
Left personnel info on letters

[squidward]

Hi All

 

Today Monument have had there 21 days since I put the account in dispute. There have been some calls from there collections dept asking for payment last week - I kindly reminded her the account was in dispute and she said OK very politely and hung up the phone.

 

Whats is my next move or do I now wait for them ?

 

BR

 

Squidward

Edited May 19, 2009 by squidward

[squidward]

Should I complain to the OFT ?

[IdaInFife]

yes

 

ida x

[squidward]

Thanks Ida

 

Just recieved this letter from Monument Basically it states they feel they have complied my request under s78 of the CCA albeit with a unenforceable agreement.

 

Letter

 

 

 

Should I reply to them and explain why ?

 

I was thinking of sending a slightly altered version of cerberusalert letter below .....

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

I have received the documents you sent and in the accompanying letter you have confirmed this to be a true copy of the credit agreement that exists in relation to this account. As you have sent this document in response to a formal request under Section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, this statement is now binding on you as per section 172 of the Act

 

I must inform you that the information received does not meet the requirements of a properly executed credit agreement under the 1974 Act The document received does not contain any of the prescribed terms as set out in the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) Schedule 6 Column 2.

 

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974The absence of a properly executed credit agreement prevents you from:

Adding interest to the account

Taking any enforcement action on the account

Issuing any default notices or registering any default marker with a credit reference agency

 

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land.

 

Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

Wilson v First County Trust Ltd [2001] EWCA Civ 633, Sir Andrew Morritt, Vice Chancellor said:

The creditor must…be taken to have made a voluntary disposition, or gift, of the loan monies to the debtor. The creditor had chosen to part with the monies in circumstances in which it was never entitled to have them repaid

 

In the case of Dimond v Lovell [2000] UKHL 27, Lord Hoffmann said Parliament intended that if a consumer credit agreement was improperly executed, then subject to the enforcement powers of the court, the debtor should not have to pay.

 

I would also point out that if you continue to pursue me for this debt while it is dispute you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines

What I Require

 

I require all correspondence in writing from here on; any persistent attempts to contact me by phone will be reported to trading standards

 

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 where the agreement is unenforceable it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for you to write the alleged debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages

 

Yours Faithfully

 

Am I on the right track here ?

 

Thanks Squidward

Edited May 30, 2009 by squidward

[IdaInFife]

yes again

 

ida x

[IdaInFife]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

 

you may want to have a read of this

 

ida x

[squidward]

Hi Ida

 

Thanks for the support

 

I was thinking along the lines of possibly doing a Subject action Request and then if thing get to "pre -court" andI have to produce my defense or Particulars of claim I would then do the CPR 31.16 ??

 

I hope I am not getting things mixed up as there is an awfully lot to take in!

 

Thanks again

 

Squidward

[squidward]

Hi All

Well I thought I would check my credit file online today and Monument have registered a late payment on my file even though the account has been in dispute from the end of April.

 

The account in dispute letter clearly states "Issuing any default notices or registering any default marker with a credit reference agency".

 

Is there a letter I can send to stop them doing this?

 

 

Thanks

 

Squidward

[squidward]

Hi All

 

Please Help !

 

Well I have now received a letter to which they say this is there final response.

 

They feel that the agreement sent is enforceable and will continue to chase the debt.

 

They are also transferring the debt the there legal representatives.

 

Any one help as to my next move or letter ?

 

Letter from Monument below

 

[alangee]

They say that they have sent you a copy of the Monument conditions reflecting the original agreement you entered into with Monument.

 

The application in post #1 was made to Providian National Bank. How can Monument conditions reflect the conditions in your original application?

 

I got the same standard letters and application you got, in reply to my CCA and CPR 31.16, and if they sent you the same T&C's they sent me, they are the current Monument terms.

 

Alan

[squidward]

Hi Alan

 

Thanks for the reply

 

I think then now is the time to apply for the CCA under CPR 31.16 which will I suppose flush out any Providian T&C's and or anything else that I may have signed if they have them.

 

With this being passed (supposedly) to their legal people should I send account in dispute letter when they contact me ?

 

Cheers

 

Squidward

[alangee]

When I sent a CPR 31.16 request to Monument, they came back with the same letter as you have just posted, referring me to their solicitors. I have since sent Gately Wareing a copy of my request, and they have another week to satisfy that request, before I send the second letter off to them.

 

I put the account into dispute about three months ago, but of course, Monument insist that an application to Providian and a current set of Monument T&C's represent the agreement, and as far as they are concerned, there is no dispute.

 

Alan

[alangee]

Sqidward

 

Here is a copy of a letter Peter Bardsley received from DTI reference his request for them to clarify what is required in an agreement.

 

dti

 

21 December 2006

 

Re consumer credit act 1974

 

Thank you for your letter of the 7th of December on behalf of your constituent Mr Peter Bardsley of ***** about a possible irregularity in the Consumer Credit act 1974.

 

The Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations apply to all the situations that are listed in the Schedule to the Regulations and this include Sections 77 and 78 of the Act, which are about copies of the executed agreement and not pre contractual information

 

The Cancellation Notices and copies of Documents Regulations are made under Section 180 of the Act ) power to prescribe the form etc of documents) and Section 180 enables Regulations to be made to provide for including/excluding certain information from copies sent out under the Act. The Regulations apply to all copies sent our under the Act unless specifically excluded in the Regulations themselves.

 

Mr Bardsley describes a situation in which he was sent a copy of a company’s standard Terms and Conditions when requesting a copy of a signed agreement form. Just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement**

 

If Mr Bardsley feels that the rules are being flouted he should report the companies concerned to Trading standards and the Office of Fair Trading. It is also a breach of the Act and the Regulations to send the application form rather that a “true copy” of the Agreement.

 

On the point that Mr Bardsley makes about unscrupulous companies adjusting agreements, If there were a dispute about an agreement, the lender would need to prove to a court that there was an agreement and, it is highly likely that the lender would have to produce the original signed document to prove they had and agreement with the consumer to start with,

 

The lender should need to prove to a court that there was and agreement and, it is highly likely that the lender would have to produce the original signed document to prove they had an agreement with the consumer to start with. If the lender can’t prove the existence of the agreement, winning any court case would prove difficult.

 

 

Approved By the Minister and signed in His presence

 

Pp Ian Mc Cartney

Maybe you could quote sections of it to Monument.

 

 

Alan

[squidward]

Hi Alan

 

Looks looks like you and I are at similar stage with Monument.

 

Is that a CPR request to Gately Wareing ?

 

Alan do you have your own thread monument thread I can Subscribe to?

 

Cheers Squidward

[alangee]

No, I don't have a thread on it, I have just been doing my own thing.

 

The CPR 31.16 request originally went to Monument, but, I resent it to Gately Wareing. I will keep you posted on any developments.

 

Alan

[squidward]

Well gone strangely quiet since I got the letter saying the debt is going to be transfered to Gately Wareing!

 

Is this normal ?

 

Squidward

[squidward]

Update

 

Just had a call from Portland House "Compucredit" advising me they were

collecting the debt !

 

Any Ideas who they are?

 

Squidward

[42man]

Something to do with Monument - https://www.themonumentcard.co.uk/about-monument.html

[42man]

Application / Licence Details

 

 

 

Licence Number:0597542

Licence Status:Current

 

Current Applicant / Licensee:

 

Business NameCompany Registration NumberCompuCredit UK Limited6032187

 

Categories:

 

Consumer credit Consumer hire Credit brokerage Credit reference agency Debt administration Debt collecting Provision of debt-adjusting on a commercial basis Provision of debt-counselling on a commercial basis

 

Right To Canvass Off Trade Premises:Yes

 

 

Trading Name(s) (Current):

 

Card Services Cardholder Services Cash Loan Team Monument Monument Card Services Portland Collection Services Portland House Universal Cash Advance

 

Issued Date: 18-Feb-2007

Expiry Date: 17-Feb-2012

 

 

Legal Formation:

 

Body Corporate (incorporated inside UK)

 

Current Individuals that run the organisation:

 

NamePositionAndrew Arther Yates Daniel Gerhard Dierker Jeffrey Alan Howard William Raymond McCameyOFFICER

 

Nature of Business:

 

Investment/Financial Advisers

 

Current Address(es):

 

Address TypeAddressCorrespondence5, Concourse Parkway, Suite 400, ATLANTA, Georgia, Fulton, 30328, United StatesPrincipal Place Of BusinessThe Portland Building, 25, High Street, CRAWLEY, West Sussex, RH10 1BG, United KingdomRegistered Office150, Aldersgate Street, LONDON, EC1A 4EU, United Kingdom

 

Historic Address(es):

 

Address TypeAddressCorrespondence5, Concourse Parkway,Suite 400, Atlanta Georgia, Fulton, 30328, United States of AmericaCorrespondence6th Floor 245, Perimeter Centre Parkway, Atlanta, Georgia, Dekalb, 30346, U.S.ACorrespondence6th Floor, 245, Perimeter Centre Parkway , Atlanta, Dekalb, 30346, USACorrespondenceFive, Concourse Parkway, Suite 400, Atlanta, Georgia, Fulton, 30328, United States of AmericaPrincipal Place Of BusinessPortland Building, 25, High Street, CRAWLEY, West Sussex, RH10 1BG, United KingdomPrincipal Place Of BusinessThe Portland Building, 25, High Street, Crawley, West Sussex, RH10 1BGPrincipal Place Of BusinessThe Portland Building, 25, High Street, Crawley, West Sussex, RH10 1BG, United KingdomRegistered Office1, Bishops Square, London, E1 6AD, United KingdomRegistered Office1, Bishops Square, London, E1 6AORegistered Office150, Aldersgate Street, LONDON, EC1A 4EJ, United KingdomRegistered Office150, Aldersgate Street, LONDON, EC1A 4EL, United KingdomRegistered OfficeOne, Bishops Square, London, E1 6AO