cupcake68 Vs Hsbc

[cupcake68]

Hi Guys

 

We cca'd HSBC on 19th March, we have had no cca but we did receive a letter saying they couldn't send because we hadn't signed the letter. I sent this reply

Thank you for your letter dated 26/03/2009 the contents of which are noted

In your letter you make reference to requiring my signed authorisation /specimen signature before you comply. I draw your attention to the fact that the Consumer Credit Act 1974 does not require that I supply you a copy of my signature before you comply with my S77/78 request.

 

If it is for Data Protection purposes then I can happily supply you with documentation to substantiate my identity to you.

 

However please note that to date you have happily sent statements and correspondence containing extensive sensitive private information to my address. I have to ask if you are concerned that you are corresponding with the correct person why has it taken so long to raise this?

 

As you are aware, disclosing data without adequate checks of identity is contrary to the 7th principal of data protection, listed in schedule 1 of the Data protection Act 1998:

 

7. Appropriate technical and organisational measures shall be taken against unauthorised or unlawful processing of personal data and against accidental loss or destruction of, or damage to, personal data.

 

My request for a true copy of my credit agreement under section 77/78 was made on 19/03/2009 and the 12 working days for your compliance expire on 08/04/2008. I note that there is no provision that removes the requirements of the act to provide this information on time, even if you are unsure of my identity.

 

I am returning the postal order made payable to yourselves for £1 to cover the cost of this request.

I look forward to receiving the documentation requested.

 

We received this reply on Thursday AC HSBC pictures by cupcake62 - Photobucket

 

Can you please give me some advise?

 

Should I send a letter stating the account is in dispute because they have not complied with my request or should I reply to this leter? If so what should I say next?

 

Thanks

[300]

Have a look at this thread it should answer all your questions. It is however something you could have found for yourself using the site search feature giving me more time to waste on TV ;¬). http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/190429-cca-request-now-asking.html#post2054879

[blueda]

The bank is trying to bluff you, the letter you have above is good, you could add to it that as the time has passed that the account is now in dispute.

[cupcake68]

Cheers

 

I sent the letter in my first post but wasn't sure what to do about their reply to it.

 

I'll just send an account in dispute letter on Tuesday

 

Thanks

[RubyRose]

esile172,

 

Can you please post a copy of your account in dispute letter as I am having the same ding dong battle with HSBC. I will be starting my own thread to show the documents they sent me in response to them asking for my signature.

 

regards

Ruby.

[cupcake68]

Hi Rubyrose

 

This is the account in dispute letter

 

Account In Dispute

 

Ref:

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

 

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.(12+2 days after you sent the CCA request)

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore;

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation. This limit has expired

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested. Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS. Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends. Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I therefore request a copy of your official complaints procedure which you are obliged to supply.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Print name do not sign

 

Good luck, let us know how you get on!

 

Esile

[cupcake68]

Hi

 

We have received a letter today asking us for payment (again!) but it is saying our account is now closed.

 

Am I right in saying they should have sent a default notice before closing the account?

 

CC68

[Dinkjames]

Cupcake, are you referring to a CCA request or a SAR? The letter received Thursday from HSBC looks more like a response to SAR in which case your response would be different to the one above.

 

They can close the account before issueing a default notice, but if they do, then they are unlawfully rescinding the contract adn would have no lawful claim to any of the sums owed under the agreement. Read the post about a dodgy DN here (dodgy is the same as not getting one) http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/170345-tale-dodgy-dn.html and have a read of this one http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank-bank-scotland/171374-bank-scotland-terminated-without.html

[cupcake68]

Thanks DJ

 

Can I just ask another question that has come to mind?

 

What if they say they have sent a DN? They do not send it recorded delivery, they could make one up and put it in their file and produce it when they needed it. It would be our word against theirs. Sorry for appearing mistrusting of these institutions!!!

 

CC68

[Dinkjames]

Don't mention the lack of DN to them. Did you mention it in your SAR? If you did, then you should get a copy in your reply or there will be a log entry on their computer system showing when the DN was generated / posted out? Lastly, if it gets to that, you can request proof of postage.

 

HSBC closed my account and then issued the DN. They have since confirmed on numerous occasions that the account is closed. Just waiting for the SAR to get back and them to sell the account. In the meantime, I am claiming my charges back.

[cupcake68]

Thanks!

 

I CCA'd them in March and they reufsed to send until I signed the letter, I refused to sign so have not had anything back. I sent the acc in dispute letter and have made no payments since.

 

CC68

[blueda]

Thanks!

 

I CCA'd them in March and they reufsed to send until I signed the letter, I refused to sign so have not had anything back. I sent the acc in dispute letter and have made no payments since.

 

CC68

You are doing it the right way, so long as they dont contact you, then leave them alone.

Edited June 9, 2009 by blueda
Typing error

[cupcake68]

Thanks for the support!

 

CC68

[cupcake68]

OK!

 

So the last kletter requesting payment clearly said "as your account is now closed"

 

Today I have received a DN (?!)

 

I am pretty sure it is defective because although dated 5th June it did not arrive until today and they are insisting on payment by 19th june. Therefore not allowing for postage.

 

SO can they close the account then re open to send a DN or have the shot themselves in the foot big time?

 

CC68

[Dinkjames]

Hi Cupcake.

 

Here's my thread on HSBC http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/198398-dinkjames-hsbc-credit-card.html

 

As the 5th was a Friday, your letter was probably posted on Monday arriving today. They should then give you 14 days to rectify the breach. As they have not done this, the DN is ineffective.

 

You should get a monthly letter from them now. Each letter has a paragraph specifically stating that the account is closed.

[cupcake68]

So are they at fault by sending me a letter saying the account is closed and then sending default after?

[Dinkjames]

As I understand it from reading the forums, they cannot issue a default notice on a closed account. The default notice refers to the agreement, but as the agreement is terminated it cannot be referred to.

 

The difficulty is getting actual confirmation that the agreement is terminated. I based that on the content of their letter, which is quite clear.

 

 

I do have HSBC on a few grounds though.

• Account terminated before DN issued.
  
• DN does not allow for 14 days to remedy.
  
• Amount on the DN includes bank charges and interest thus rendering it invalid.
  
• They used their right to offset, which has more than cleared the DN amount. They actually offset the full balance in breach of the guidelines regarding offset.
  

Edited June 9, 2009 by Dinkjames
incorrect info

[cupcake68]

Can I just ask you one more question?

 

You mention HSBC DN includes bank charges and interest.

 

Is this charges and interest added to your credit card account after the account was put in dispute?

 

This is a new twist I was not aware of!

 

Thanks

 

CC68

[Dinkjames]

My understanding is that the arrears amount on the DN has to be accurate for the DN to be effective. If however, the account has a large number of unfair charges on it (plus the interest on the charges), then the arrear amount cannot be correct as part of the arrears is made up of unlawful charges. In my case, 80% of the arrears amount was due to charges and interest in the lead up to the DN.

 

It is, though, only one string in my bow against HSBC. My primary string is that they terminated the account before the DN was served, thus the rest of my arguments are mute anyway, as the first one will stand up.

[cupcake68]

I have a personal bank account with HSBC and an agreed overdraft.

 

I have just received my statement and BT took an amount out without notifying me which took me £35 over my agreed overdraft.

 

HSBC have charged another £25 fee for this does that seem fair?

 

Thanks

 

CC68

[PGH7447]

No thats why we are fighting these charges

[cupcake68]

Sorry to seem ignorant but this is all new to me!

 

What should I do about it?

 

Do I call up and complain?

[PGH7447]

we were all new one time:D

 

start here and come back if you are unsure, someone will help

 

Step By Step Guide - Consumer Wiki

[cupcake68]

Thanks PGH!

 

I will have a read.

 

CC68

[johnnymitch]

Hi , welcome to the forum

 

If this is the only time you have been subject to these unfair charges, it may be worthwhile asking your bank to refund them - the local manager has authority to do this and if it's a one-off they've been known to refund .

Another option could be to ask BT to refund as it was their un-notified charge which took you over the limit in the first place ......

 

Failing that , follow PGH's very good advice and read up on how to reclaim - you may have other charges going back 6 years that are reclaimable ..........