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    • You probably do need to ignore it, but show it to us just in case. Cover up your name, address and anything that could ID you like your car reg. HB
    • Hi all! I've now had a "final notification letter" through from ECP. I assume I should continue to ignore this, but is there likely any action I need to take? Do you need to see a copy of the letter? Thanks
    • Please will you upload the defence in a PDF format document
    • Afternoon All - after 3 weeks of silence, this morning I received an email from HMCTS advising that P2G have rejected my claim. Decide whether to proceed Parcel2Go.com has rejected your claim. You need to decide whether to proceed with the claim. You need to respond before 4pm on 25 June 2024. Your claim won’t continue if you don’t respond by then. This is their ‘defence’ Their defence Why they disagree with the claim When choosing a service on the Defendants website, the Claimant chose to book their order with Evri and selected to take out £20 parcel protection which comes with the service. On the first page of the booking process, the Claimant entered the value of £265 for the contents and was offered parcel protection for loss or damages against their goods for £13.99 + VAT. The Claimant selected no, which then produced a pop up which explained 'We strongly recommend that you protect the full value of your item(s).' however, the Claimant still did not take this protection out and instead continued with the booking process. At the end of the booking process, the Claimant was offered this again which was refused and the Claimant continued with the booking by accepting the terms and conditions which re-iterates the information provided in the booking process. The parcel was sent, however, seems to be delayed in transit. The parcel finally started to track again, however, when delivered the parcel was empty with no contents. As such, the claim was re-opened and attempted to be settled for the £20 protection taken out in the booking process. This was refused by the Claimant as they felt they should be paid the full amount of the value entered when booking. Unfortunately, due to the refusal of the parcel protection in the booking process the Defendant is not liable to settle the claim to the value and only to the parcel protection taken out. The Defendant shall rely on the Terms and Conditions of carriage in particular section 9. The Defendant understands that the contents have not be handled with due care and attention, which is not being disputed, however, they are disputing the amount they are liable to. They have requested mediation, I’m sure not least to drag the case out even longer, but I can see no benefit to me in this and so shall reject it. As ever, I’d welcome your thoughts guys. g59   
    • I doubt HMCTS holds any data on whether arrests by AEAs required police assistance.  They couldn't or wouldn't provide data on how many of warrants issued were successfully executed - just the number issued!  In my experience, arrest warrants whether with or without bail are [surprisingly] carried out with little or no fuss.  I think it's about how you treat people - a little respect and courtesy goes a long way. If you treat people badly they will react the same way. Occasions when police are called to assist are not common and, having undertaken or managed many thousands of these over the years, I can only recall a handful of occasions when police assistance was necessary. On one occasion, many years ago, I arrested and transported a man from Hampshire to Bristol prison on a committal warrant. It was just me and he was no problem. I didn't know the Bristol area (pre Sat Nav) and he was kind enough to provide directions - seems he knew the prison.  One young chap on another committal warrant jumped out of his back window and I had to chase him across several garden fences.  When he gave up (we were both knackered) I agreed to drive by his girlfriend's house to say farewell for a while.  I gave them a few moments and he was fine. The most difficult are breach warrants but mainly in locating the defendant as they don't want to go back to prison - can't blame them.  These were always dealt with by the police until the Access to Justice Act transferred responsibility from them to the magistrates' courts. The fact was the police did not actively pursue them and generally only executed them when they arrested someone for something else and found they had a breach warrant outstanding.  Hence the transfer of responsibility.
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
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      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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the only signiture is on the application form would the agreement on the back make a differerence even if no signiture

 

no signiture on first aggreement

 

no signiture on upgraded card agreement

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For it to be enforceable there has to be certain prescribed terms included within the 'four corners' of the signed document, front or reverse. These are; %APR, credit limit, repayment terms etc. If those aren't on the last document you posted it is unenforceable.

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thanks for your help

does that mean it would be unenforcable by a court

 

and what is the chance of them coming up with a fully signed agreement i think they sent quite a bit so would be inclined to think that is all they have they did take well over 4 weeks to get it to me

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That's OK. You could send them this to see what their reply is;

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account no

 

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

This account is in Dispute .

 

On xx/xx/2007 I wrote to xxxxxxxxx requesting that xxxxxxx supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.

In response to this request I was supplied a mere application form which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say none of the terms are present in the document

 

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I refer to page 5 of the guidance which states;

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.

 

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

 

Since the agreement is unenforceable and the default notice is non compliant, it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for your client to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages

 

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days

 

 

I trust this out lines the situation

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I have been reading up on this all day, still confused, if post 24 were on the back of the original application form would it be enforcable

 

Sorry have been worrying all day and night

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi

 

iwrote to tpf to request a more legible copy, i gave them a time limit to reply. I have not had a response.

 

My problem is that my OH does not know about this debt he would go ape. if i send the indispute letter i will then start to get calls which means he will then find out.

i am paying the min payment and have not defaulted but cannot keep it up much longer.

 

Should i send a letter pointing out what is wrong with the stuff they sent and asking for clarification regarding wheather they do have more than my app form.

i would like to make a full and final offer, so dont want to go though months of correspondance

 

would welcome your opinions

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Just to say been going through old paperwork and have come across card carriers.

Not the first one ever, but the one posted up in an earlier post from a replacement card

 

Its different mine is interspersed with info on card insurance etc, theirs seems to be missing this bit

 

Do you think they were trying to hoodwink me into believing it was complient, surly if it has info regarding insurance then would this not make it unenforceable due to having stuff other than just prescribed terms?

Obviously i know the card carrier makes no difference anyway, but it does make you wonder

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  • 3 weeks later...

hi sent a letter asking for clearer documents and asking for info regarding the back of application this was sent 7th april no reply

 

sent a letter 7th may stating that since they had not replied assumed they did not have an enforceable agreement so offered a full and final settlement gave them to last friday to reply no received one

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next payment not due until mid june

 

have not got any defaults yet but finance are dire since crunch

 

trying damage limitation so need to know something before mid june

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received letter today we have complied etc with sections78

 

we do not consider ac to be indispute etc

 

i asked for a clearer copy of app form and for a copy of back of app form nothing sent. i also pointed out that the stuff they sent was not enforceable they say they will not entered into any further correspondence regarding alleged CCa breaches

 

i would like to send out a strong letter saying why the a application form is not enforceable any ideas

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2u7t9g1.gif

 

Make a complaint to your local trading standards & the OFT with regards to their harassment and threats, they are in clear breach of OFT guidelines & CPUT;

 

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/DebtCollectionComplaintForm.DOC

 

The Office of Fair Trading: Contact us

 

[email protected]

 

The Office of Fair Trading: Debt collection practices

 

tel: 020 7211 5823

Debt collection guidance - Final guidance on unfair business practices - oft664

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