Capital One ????!!!!!!! confused

[uktigger]

This is latest response from Cap One following them being CCA'd and also being sent a 'get stuffed' letter. Can someone please take a look at this and explain what it means????? They are claiming that they have sent a true copy of my CCA when all they have sent is a copy of their latest terms and conditions. They have sent NOTHING with my signature on, and nothing with any of my details on!!! They also claim (i think!) that they do not consider the account to be in dispute>

 

Any thoughts or observations would be gratefully received

 

Thanks

 

UK Tigger:confused:

[havinastella]

Unable to read as too small.

 

Have you read any of the other Cap One threads? This is what they do and they probably 'HAVE' complied with your request.

 

Read this

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

 

 

AND this

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/172543-just-recieved-signed-capital.html?highlight=sunflower

 

 

Jogs

[cerberusalert]

Can you upload it to TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting and then post the Url back here ?

[uktigger]

Oops...sorrry......

 

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt80/uktigger_2009/CapOne090309Front.jpg

 

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt80/uktigger_2009/CapOne090309Back.jpg

[uktigger]

Hello Friends,

 

Could someone take a look at the above please?

 

Thank you

UK Tigger

[cerberusalert]

Send the muppets this;

 

Account Number: XXX

 

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending your companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Application Form & Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the dispute continues

 

Yours faithfully

Print name do not sign

[uktigger]

Hi Cerberusalert,

 

Thanks a million

 

UK Tigger

[uktigger]

Hi Folks,

 

Received a letter from CapOne saying there's no more documentation!!!

 

Interestingly they will also defend any claim of no enforceable agreement and not "enter into any further correspondence".

 

CapOne Letter Front

 

CapOne Letter Back

 

 

Any advice on the next step please?

 

Thanks

UK Tigger

[diddydicky]

yes confirm that the account is in dispute as they have not provided you with a true copy of an executed agreement and then you use cpr rules to ask them for a copy of the orginal agreement that they will use in their defence (and lots of otehr docs) if you loook in the site you will find the template letter

note that the request is a means of identifying the strength of any claim should you decide to make one and puts them on the back foot since failure to provide it is against the overriding principles of avoiding wasting the courts time

[uktigger]

Thanks DD, I will search the templates for yuor suggestion

Tigger

[loobyloo35]

Looks like you have joined the long list of Crap One!

 

I was in the same boat, refusing to enter into more dialogue etc., etc., saying they enclosed CCA and didnt have to provide original one etc.

 

Now I am at the stage of claiming my charges back and it might be in your interest to do the same.

 

They passed my debt to Debtias and then to Frederickson and I think that's the norm!

 

Good luck x

[uktigger]

Looks like you have joined the long list of Crap One!

 

I was in the same boat, refusing to enter into more dialogue etc., etc., saying they enclosed CCA and didnt have to provide original one etc.

 

Now I am at the stage of claiming my charges back and it might be in your interest to do the same.

 

They passed my debt to Debtias and then to Frederickson and I think that's the norm!

 

Good luck x

 

Hi LL,

 

This debt was passed to debitas then to CapQuest, who handed it straight back to CapOne like a hot potato when I CCA'd them

 

So claim charges back eh? What is the scope of which charges I can consider claiming back and can you point me in the direction of how to start looking at this please?

 

Thank you

Tigger

[loobyloo35]

Hi LL,

 

This debt was passed to debitas then to CapQuest, who handed it straight back to CapOne like a hot potato when I CCA'd them

 

So claim charges back eh? What is the scope of which charges I can consider claiming back and can you point me in the direction of how to start looking at this please?

 

Thank you

Tigger

 

Hi Tigger,

 

Will gladly help!

 

What you first need to do is get hold of all your statements and look for any PPI charges, over limit fees, non payment fees, late payment fees, anything like that really.

 

Go to www.moneysavingexpert.com and go to the top of the page that shows the tabs about reclamining £1,000s. Scroll down and there is a court calculator. Put in each charge and the date you were charged, it will then work out the interest on top then you can add it to the spreadsheet and when you have finished print the spreadsheet and it will give you the total amount of charges plus interest to show you what to claim back.

 

My charges were £856, by the time I had put in the interest it came to just over a grand so every little helps as Tesco says!

 

I have also had my £55 of PPI charges refunded with no argument whatsoever so if you need me to point you in the direction of the letters, just let me know.

 

You can PM me if you want, but do you know the balance of the charges applied since you have had the account? Would it cover the balance that is owed to Crap One?

 

I should get £600+ if mine gets paid off. They offered me £138 last week so yesterday told them where to stick it and will sent court papers and/or report them to the FOS who are most helpful in dealing with this lol plus I am trying to get the Default remove.

 

Does this help?

 

LL

[uktigger]

yes confirm that the account is in dispute as they have not provided you with a true copy of an executed agreement and then you use cpr rules to ask them for a copy of the orginal agreement that they will use in their defence (and lots of otehr docs) if you loook in the site you will find the template letter

note that the request is a means of identifying the strength of any claim should you decide to make one and puts them on the back foot since failure to provide it is against the overriding principles of avoiding wasting the courts time

 

Hi DD,

 

So looking through the templates and other threads it looks as though I should be sending a SAR to CapOne? Does this sound the right approach?

 

Thanks

Tigger

[uktigger]

Hi Tigger,

 

Go to www.moneysavingexpert.com and go to the top of the page that shows the tabs about reclamining £1,000s. Scroll down and there is a court calculator. LL

 

Hi LL,

 

Being a bit dim, is this the link that you refer to above?

 

Reclaim Credit Card Charges: Full guide to get £100s back...

 

Thank you

Tigger

[loobyloo35]

Hi LL,

 

Being a bit dim, is this the link that you refer to above?

 

Reclaim Credit Card Charges: Full guide to get £100s back...

 

Thank you

Tigger

 

 

Hi Tigger,

 

Yes that's the one.

 

Down the bottom there is the calculator use that and reclaim your charges!

 

Good luck

[uktigger]

Hi all,

 

Having mulled on this overnight, I have a question over reclaiming charges.

 

If I go down the line of proving the debt is unenforcable and, as per the letters sent to them, did not acknowledge any debt to them... if I now claim charges back am I now re-acknowledging the debt and opening myself to repaying it?

 

Thanks in advance

Tigger

[loobyloo35]

Hi all,

 

Having mulled on this overnight, I have a question over reclaiming charges.

 

If I go down the line of proving the debt is unenforcable and, as per the letters sent to them, did not acknowledge any debt to them... if I now claim charges back am I now re-acknowledging the debt and opening myself to repaying it?

 

Thanks in advance

Tigger

 

Hi

Can I ask why you CCA'd them and also didnt acknowledge the debt? Did you deny the debt first or CCA them first?

 

Also, are your charges more than the balance owed?

[diddydicky]

no. its not a subject access request its a county court protocol that allows you to see the evidence from the other party that you MIGHT take to court to see what the strength of your case is or is not as the case my be

 

the whole object of the excercise is to allow folk to settle out of court or not bring proceedings at all in order to save court time and costs

 

If for instance you ask them under cpr rules to produce the original signed agreement which they intend to rely upon either to take you to court or to defend any possible action by you then this IS the document( or lack of) that they must then use in court (they cant come along later with another document to show the court)

 

a request under the CCA allows them to "Reproduce" what would have been an agreement which is why they get away with T & C's and doesnt really give you what you need to know.

[uktigger]

Hi

Can I ask why you CCA'd them and also didnt acknowledge the debt? Did you deny the debt first or CCA them first?

 

Also, are your charges more than the balance owed?

 

Hi LL,

 

To answer your questions the sequence of events (which is follwoing excellent advice from here):

• CCA'd the DCA after harrassing letters etc
  
• The DCA handed it back to CapOne like a hot potato
  
• CapOne defaulted on the response by not supplying the correct documents.
  
• I then sent the 'account in dispute' letter which informs them that I do not acknowledge the debt with them because of the dispute.
  
• Hence the follow-up letters from CapOne that claim the account is not in dispute and that there is no further documentation.
  

Hence my question about claiming the charges back and will this 're-acknowledge' the debt.

 

>>

 

Tigger

[loobyloo35]

Hi LL,

 

 

To answer your questions the sequence of events (which is follwoing excellent advice from here):

• CCA'd the DCA after harrassing letters etc
  
• The DCA handed it back to CapOne like a hot potato
  
• CapOne defaulted on the response by not supplying the correct documents.
  
• I then sent the 'account in dispute' letter which informs them that I do not acknowledge the debt with them because of the dispute.
  
• Hence the follow-up letters from CapOne that claim the account is not in dispute and that there is no further documentation.
  

Hence my question about claiming the charges back and will this 're-acknowledge' the debt.

 

>>

 

Tigger

 

You have gone through the same process as I did. I wouldnt worry about "reopening" the debt to be honest as I sent the account in dispute letter as well and they merely replied and said the account wasnt in dispute and they were to continue chasing for the debt.

 

Mine went from Debitas to Frederickson and havent heard anything from them since and have been in direct contact with Crap One.

 

It sounds like they are just sending the standard response letters they send everyone else!

 

The account isnt in dispute blah blah blah, they will not enter into further discussion blah blah blah and they will carry on chasing the debt!

 

They are not chasing my debt as I have now hit them with a PPI claim and the charges claim.

 

I would just go for the charges claim if I were you, but how much is the debt for and do you know if the charges will cover your debt or will you still owe them money?

 

LL

[MikeBigg]

If I go down the line of proving the debt is unenforcable and, as per the letters sent to them, did not acknowledge any debt to them... if I now claim charges back am I now re-acknowledging the debt and opening myself to repaying it?

 

I have been musing on this, too.

 

Also, do they send you a cheque of the reclaimed charges, or simply reduce the balance on the account by the amount?

 

Thanks,

 

Mike

[loobyloo35]

I have been musing on this, too.

 

Also, do they send you a cheque of the reclaimed charges, or simply reduce the balance on the account by the amount?

 

Thanks,

 

Mike

 

 

I havent got to that stage yet, but I woud imagine that they would pay off the debt first and then send you the remainder.

 

I doubt very much that they would send you the whole amount and then expect you to pay as I guess there is a chance that you wouldnt pay up or would take ages to pay perhaps.

[uktigger]

Well LL after you're last comment about likely to take it off the balance, I don't reaaaaalllllly think that the charges will have much of an impression on the amount owed

 

Also as they can't provide the original documentation, the account is in dispute and not enforceable, therefore I think it better to focus on this and have done with it.

 

However.... I assume that this same principle can be applied to bank charges?

 

Thanks everyone for your comments

 

I'll keep the thread updated.

UK Tigger

[loobyloo35]

Well LL after you're last comment about likely to take it off the balance, I don't reaaaaalllllly think that the charges will have much of an impression on the amount owed

 

Also as they can't provide the original documentation, the account is in dispute and not enforceable, therefore I think it better to focus on this and have done with it.

 

However.... I assume that this same principle can be applied to bank charges?

 

Thanks everyone for your comments

 

I'll keep the thread updated.

UK Tigger

 

Oh well if the amount wont cover the balance then I wouldnt bother LOL Keep denying it until the prove otherwise the debt is valid if I were you!

 

Bank charges is a definite though obviously read the threads about the high court etc., and the fact that all claims are currently on hold until the outcome of the appeal.