HFC - MARBLES want new agreement signed or Dad cannot use card any more!

[cupcake68]

My dad has received a letter this weekend from Marbles, he's had the credit card for years.

 

They are insisting he sign a new agreement if he wants to continue using the card.

 

Am I wrong or are they virtually admitting the existing agreement is unenforceable?

[Delfi101]

Very interesting!

 

I think what you're saying is right ... perhaps they've been hurt too many times by the unenforceable 'Application Forms' that they dished out in the past.

 

D

[PGH7447]

simple answer to this one, send the card back and say no thanks

[cupcake68]

Oh don't worry he will be!

 

I also thik this could be the way out for a lot of credit card companies.

 

They are desperately trying to find a way out of loaning to high risk customers!

[cupcake68]

My dad, having read the terms and conditions on the letter that holds his new credit card(the old one had expired), believes he has technically agreed to any new terms just by using the new card?

 

I think we need to have signed a new agreement, but he thinks the online registration thing gets them out of that?

 

Does anyone know?

 

Thanks

[42man]

When did he take out the original card ?

 

When you say 'register' is this a process to activate the card ? did he 'tick' a box to agree to the T's and C's ?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/152384-help-dca-chasing-me.html

[cupcake68]

Hi folks!

 

I think I'm there with this one! AC Marbles pictures by cupcake62 - Photobucket

 

I think it is not enforceable because the terms are not on the original doc and the ones they have sent are current. Si I think I should be sending them a letter saying thanks very much for the agreement you sent me but as you must be aware it is not enforceable as it does not contain the necessary terms.

 

Am I right?

 

Thanks

 

cupcake68

Edited May 21, 2009 by supasnooper
spelling

[supasnooper]

Yes you are.

 

Just check the document numbers at the bottom RHS to see that they are different.

[cupcake68]

YAY!

 

I am learning after all!

 

Sure they're not part of the original because they have the £12 charges instead of £25 and also they are specially printed with our name and the date our card expires etc.

 

Off to print another letter.

 

Thank you

 

Cupcake68

Edited May 21, 2009 by supasnooper

[cupcake68]

Can I just ask is it not enforceable because of sections 60 and 61?

[cupcake68]

Sorry if it seems like a silly question but I am still terrified of sending the wrong information and blowing my chances.

[supasnooper]

The term "contained" as in 61(a) and SI 1983/1553 refers to the terms as prescribed by section 60, and specifically to those as defined in schedule 6 of the SI.

This means that means they should be within the document and cannot be in another one (even if expressly referred to).

 

This is the position taken by Goode and is generally accepted.

[cupcake68]

So I am right in saying this is the letter I need to send?

Thank you for your response to my request under the Consumer Credit Act section 78]In your response you confirm this as a true copy of the original agreement executed by yourselves on the 13/02/2003

 

As you must realise this agreement does not conform to sections 60(1) and 61(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and would therefore only be enforceable by a court under s65. However, the absence of any (prescribed terms / signature) means that a court would be prevented from enforcing it under s127(3

 

I am granting to you a further 21 days to produce a copy of an executable agreement. After that I will consider that the above account is closed and that you will no longer pursue the alleged debt.

 

After this period you should close the file and cease processing any personal data relating to me on this matter

 

Yours faithfully

 

Thanks for your ongoing advice

 

Cupcake

[cupcake68]

Hi

 

How about this?

 

HIM MARBLES Let rec 080609 pictures by cupcake62 - Photobucket

 

Any suggestions on my next move?

 

Do we just ignore and let them try to collect?

 

Cheers

 

CC68

[cupcake68]

Having read and re read the letter I am totally confused!

 

How can they say they cannot find the agreement (that's because I never signed anything more than the apliocation form!) and they will not be looking to enforce the agreement while they are looking for it yet they then say they will be continuing normal collection procedures and credit referencing?

 

And as for why we are disputing the agreement! How about them changing the interest rate from 17 to 34% when the UK rates are at an all time low oh and what about them reducing my limit over and over when I had never missed a payment!!!!

 

GRRRR!!!!!!

[cerberusalert]

They cannot add charges, commence collection activities or process your data whilst the a/c is in dispute, & it will remain like that until they produce an enforceable CCA. Make a complaint to your local trading Standards & the OFT & send Marbles this http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/586-legal-notice-issued-under-section-10-of-the-data-protection-act-1980

[cupcake68]

Thanks Cerberusalert!

 

So am I right in saying that the debt will still show on my credit file but they cannot put any adverse info on?

 

Is there any way for me to fight to get the debt taken off of my file until they prove it?

 

Thanks again

 

CC68

[cerberusalert]

That's what the letter above is trying to do.

[cupcake68]

Oh WOW!

 

I thought that was too good to be true!

 

CC68

[cupcake68]

I have just realised something!!

 

Back in February Marbles sent me a new card and told us we had to sign a new agreement or we would not be able to use it. It had a different number on it!!

 

I didn't sign any new agreement (and haven't tried using the card) they sent many emails and letters reminding me I needed to do this.

 

When we requested a copy of their CCA we stated the old account number.

 

Every letter we have had from them since then has had the new number on it. So...

 

The unenforceable agreement they have sent me which dates back to 2003 (I think!) is sent under this new account number.

 

What does that mean?

 

I have printed the letter Cerberusalert suggested in post 10 but now I don't know which acc no I should put on it (If I put the old acc no I cannot refer to their letter dated ... if that has the new acc no on it - can I?)

 

This is just getting too confusing!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Thanks

 

CC68

[supasnooper]

You requested a consumer credit agreement on the old number of the card, so it's the old account number you use on the letter.

 

Marbles could try to enforce the new number on the account but they wouldn't have an agreement for that would they, as you didn't sign it.

[cupcake68]

Hi Supasnooper!

 

Thanks but can I then refer them to their letter that quotes the new number?

 

CC68

[westendwendy]

I'm at the same stage as you cupcake,when they wrote to me it had both account numbers on their letter but I never signed the new agreement either so it's all a bit confusing.

[cupcake68]

Hi WEW

 

Yes if I wasn't already confused enough now I'm totally lost!!

 

I don't know if I should be acknowledging their letters if they are talking about and chasing a different account to the one I initially asked about?!

 

I am happy to send the suggested letter but I just don't know whether to do the thank you for your letter dated ... the contents of which have been noted.

 

Any suggestions?

 

CC68

[westendwendy]

I am happy to send the suggested letter but I just don't know whether to do the thank you for your letter dated ... the contents of which have been noted.

 

 

That's how I started my letter but it was the dispute one and I didn't quote an account number,just their reference.

 

I can see it all getting very messy with two account numbers floating around but there's only one that could possibly be valid as the new account number they sent me has no agreement:D