RBS/shoos Interim Charging Order - can i now and CCA them ? merged OD/Loan debt

[palomino]

The personal loan response was effectively that they weren't required to provide a copy of the agreement as judgment had been entered.

 

Wrong. You can ask for a copy of your credit agreement at any time.

[42man]

You'll need to send them a SAR

 

Use this one, unfortunately it will cost £10 (send recorded) however you should at least know where you stand after sending this - they have to send the details in 40 days or the next letter from you will be a LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

Data Protection Act 1998

 

Subject Access Request

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx (or multiple numbers if more than one account)

 

Please supply me with all data that you hold on me. This includes in particular, but is not limited to, the following:-

 

1. The original signed, executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

3. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with ORIGINAL CREDITOR.

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

6. Details of any collection charges added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

8. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

9. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

10. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

Please confirm in writing if you are not able to supply the above or indeed are not able to reproduce these items or supply copies.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

sign your name but put corsses though it so it can't be 'lifted'

[debbbbsy]

The personal loan response was effectively that they weren't required to provide a copy of the agreement as judgment had been entered

 

We got the same response from the RBS, it is now standard practice for the RBS to refuse to comply.

We are going to use this instead.

why you shouldnt use section 77/78 CCA 1974 if you want the signed agreement

 

Debs

[paulwlton]

I would make an application for RBS to comply with your CCA request to be heard at the same time as the setaside hearing. Trading srandard and the OFT's view is that they should comply with a request post judgment.

 

IF RBS don't forward a "true copy" under a SAR i would also contact the ICO.

 

Paul

[Yorkmackem]

I've posted earlier with regard to a charging order obtained by RBS against my (jointly owned) property. At present I'm awaiting their response to a Subject Access Request in order to back up an application to have the judgment set aside.

 

In the interim I've been contacted by Shoosmiths who are insisting upon repayment of the judgment in monthly instalments immediately, even though (I presume) technically they wouldn't be entitled to any monies until the sale of the house (by way of a Court order or otherwise).

 

Its been put to me that if I either (a) refuse to make ongoing monthly payments or (b) make a repayment offer that is unsatisfactory, they will take additional steps to enforce the judgment. I asked what this would entail, given that I have no equity, however they refused to comment.

 

Could do with some advice really as to whether there are, in fact any additional steps they can take to extract monies from me (can they obtain payments directly from my earnings, for example ?) or whether its bullying tactics all over again........

 

On a further point they insist that the personal loan / overdraft which constitute this debt are unregulated and therefore attract statutory Court rate interest, which could mean I'm paying these off for eternity. No doubt the SAR will confirm though....

 

Any assistance much appreciated.

YM

[supasnooper]

I've looked at your threads on this matter and you've had good advice from some seasoned posters.

 

Have you applied for a set aside of the CCJ or awaiting the docs before applying ?

 

If you have applied for a set aside, I would write to Shoosmiths advising them of the set aside application.

 

If you haven't applied for the set aside then do so ASAP as you wouldn't want to delay this further if you are sure that Shoosmiths \ RBS cannot provide the neccesary docs.

 

 

As Shoosmiths already have a CCJ and an Interim Charging Order against you, the only steps left for them to enforce the debt are to get the Charging Order made Final and then persuading the judge that they be allowed to sell of the property.

[Yorkmackem]

Hiya, thanks for the reply.

 

The final charging order hearing has already taken place with the result that the order was made final. I haven't yet submitted the application to set aside as I don't yet have concrete evidence to back up my assertions, in terms of charges / PPI / enforceability of original agreements.

 

I suppose that if RBS fail (or refuse) to comply with the SAR request it'll be necessary to push on with the application which would entail an order for them to respond.....?

 

In terms of further enforcement steps, Shoosmiths have intimated that they can take additional steps over and above any Order for Sale (which is bound to fail as no equity) but refuse to divulge further. Whether this is a tactic to force me into repayment terms which I can barely afford, I have no idea.

 

Again any advice would be most welcome.

YM

[blind-as-a-bat]

Hiya, thanks for the reply.

 

The final charging order hearing has already taken place with the result that the order was made final. I haven't yet submitted the application to set aside as I don't yet have concrete evidence to back up my assertions, in terms of charges / PPI / enforceability of original agreements.

 

I suppose that if RBS fail (or refuse) to comply with the Subject Access Request request it'll be necessary to push on with the application which would entail an order for them to respond.....?

 

In terms of further enforcement steps, Shoosmiths have intimated that they can take additional steps over and above any Order for Sale (which is bound to fail as no equity) but refuse to divulge further. Whether this is a tactic to force me into repayment terms which I can barely afford, I have no idea.

 

Again any advice would be most welcome.

YM

 

Hmmm the only aditional step left i can think of is petitioning you for bankruptcy, which as your house is in neg equity, and assuming you dont have any other assets of high value, would not get them anywhere either.

 

So IMHO its a scare tactic, they have run out of threats, so are making it up now.

 

I may be wrong, but i cant see anything they can do to you that they have not already done, apart go for an order for sale, which as you state would be pointless, all that would achieve is them losing the securety they have just got

[Yorkmackem]

To advise and/or act upon setting aside a previous judgment - its been around 5 months since it was entered so isn't entirely straigthforward - I'm concerned that if I attempt this myself it could go as badly as the actual Charging Order hearing(s) did.

 

Have made a SAR request subsequent to the judgment which has failed to produce any copies of agreements in relation to the judgments debts, also I now wish to P20 claim for bank charges (in the light of the recent Court of Appeal case) and PPI.

 

I'm fairly confident in what I would need to do and how to do is, however I get the impression that the Courts are simply dismissive of Defendants who try to represent themselves in person.

 

I would hope to instruct someone on a no win no fee basis but if anyone has experience of using such law firms then an indication of the potential costs would be appreciated. Thanks

[henrythepug]

I am in a similar predicament , I was told by the Judge in no uncertain terms that I had made a rediculous offer , and it would take so long for my creditor to get paid ,that he could see no reasonable grounds for refusing a charging order.

I am getting stronger though and slightly more knowledgeable.

If I find a lawyer , I'll let you know...good luck

[baileyboy]

Try PT2537, they don't come much better.

[palomino]

Once a judgment has been made it over-rides any agreement there might be.

If the judgment was disputable then you should have done so at the CCJ hearing.

 

Do you have grounds for having the CCJ set aside?

[Oh Boy!]

Try Bryan Carter Solicitors.......

 

LOL

[caro]

You are more likely to succeed yourself than with a no win no fee company. You know your case best and aren't distracted by having lots of other claims to deal with so you're likely to take it more seriously. Lots of these companies are simply cowboys, and they can only do as much as you can anyway, and the cases are as likely to be stayed. We've come across some just using CAG materials.

 

Take a look in the FAQ's about how to claim back charges, and the PPI forum has lots of useful information that would help you with that.

 

I don't know so much about setting aside judgments, but if you have new evidence (or lack of) then I would say you may be able to apply for this. Did you make the point at the charging order hearing that the debt was unenforceable?

 

I suggest before thinking of employing someone you don't know, you think about resolving these issues yourself free of charge. Read around the forums and get a feel for what you need to do, and then when you're ready post what you're going to do, so we can all help and support you where we can.

 

If it didn't go well last time, then just pick yourself up, start again and learn from what went wrong.

[debbbbsy]

Hi,

You have to weigh up the costs of a Solicitor/Barrister to represent you. You haven't said what your indebtedness is.

 

Don't use Stephensons. They Scr**** us.They made promises to set a side a judgement/charging order.Talked the talk over the phone. Asked for £1000 on account to appoint a Barrister.6 months on, recieved a letter, in brief, your case is complicated, you don't have a good case to set a side, you owe us a further £350.

[pt2537]

To advise and/or act upon setting aside a previous judgment - its been around 5 months since it was entered so isn't entirely straigthforward - I'm concerned that if I attempt this myself it could go as badly as the actual Charging Order hearing(s) did.

 

Have made a SAR request subsequent to the judgment which has failed to produce any copies of agreements in relation to the judgments debts, also I now wish to P20 claim for bank charges (in the light of the recent Court of Appeal case) and PPI.

 

I'm fairly confident in what I would need to do and how to do is, however I get the impression that the Courts are simply dismissive of Defendants who try to represent themselves in person.

 

I would hope to instruct someone on a no win no fee basis but if anyone has experience of using such law firms then an indication of the potential costs would be appreciated. Thanks

Ok, if the judgments relate to consumer credit agreements that are improperly executed, then you may not need to set aside the judgment as it is possible to bring free standing proceedings to seek a declaration of unenforceability or in the alternative you may be able to seek permission to file a counterclaim even though you are out of time, See southern district finance v turner

 

it is important to establish what agreements are involved and if they are enforceable first before launching off into proceedings

[alanfromderby]

Hi,

You have to weigh up the costs of a Solicitor/Barrister to represent you. You haven't said what your indebtedness is.

 

Don't use Stephensons. They Scr**** us.They made promises to set a side a judgement/charging order.Talked the talk over the phone. Asked for £1000 on account to appoint a Barrister.6 months on, recieved a letter, in brief, your case is complicated, you don't have a good case to set a side, you owe us a further £350.

 

 

I would echo that advice - I had a similar experience.

[Yorkmackem]

Ok, if the judgments relate to consumer credit agreements that are improperly executed, then you may not need to set aside the judgment as it is possible to bring free standing proceedings to seek a declaration of unenforceability or in the alternative you may be able to seek permission to file a counterclaim even though you are out of time, See southern district finance v turner

 

it is important to establish what agreements are involved and if they are enforceable first before launching off into proceedings

 

Thanks for that, the declaration option was unknown to me.

 

I've actually had a response in the last few days to my SAR which included a request for copies of original agreements, all I've received is an "event log" covering the last 18 months from when I first got into difficulties. I've fired off a letter threatening to report them to the Information Commissioners Office.

 

At the final CO hearing I mentioned to the judge that the judgment perhaps wasn't enforceable, his reply was that it wasn't the arena to discuss such issues and I would have to make a set aside application.

 

If I don't obtain the agreements (or if RBS don't have them) does this then leave me free to commence declaration proceedings or at least make an application claiming unenforceability ?

[Dougal16T]

I would echo that advice - I had a similar experience.

 

Hi Alan,

Many thanks, I was just about to embark on a case with Stephensons, and in fact they were prepared to act in a Class Action against SWIFT!!

 

Looks like it was a lucky escape for me....!!(and everyone else....)

 

Regards

 

Dougal

[angry cat]

Hi Alan,

Many thanks, I was just about to embark on a case with Stephensons, and in fact they were prepared to act in a Class Action against SWIFT!!

 

Looks like it was a lucky escape for me....!!(and everyone else....)

 

Regards

 

Dougal

 

Oh Dear,

 

Seems as though the same old story keeps on cropping up!

 

AC

[overdone]

Once a judgment has been made it over-rides any agreement there might be.

If the judgment was disputable then you should have done so at the CCJ hearing.

Do you have grounds for having the CCJ set aside?

Is there a time limit to appeal on a ccj that was done on an unenforceable agreement? I thought judges picked these things up automatically but apparently not.

Edited July 28, 2009 by overdone
typo

[Yorkmackem]

Hi all,

In the light of the recent decision re PPI, would it be sufficient reason to apply to have a CCJ set aside ?

 

Its from 2009,

I admitted the majority sum of a claim brought by RBS over a default loan which, in retrospect contained a large element of loan protection premium. At the time of the Court action the test claims were on hold and I didn't think there would be sufficient grounds to stay the claim, but maybe I was wrong..........

 

The bank in question subsequently obtained a Charging Order and the debt is being repaid at an agreed monthly sum, but if I can re-open the matter and at least reduce the debt then all well and good.

 

Any advice gratefully received.

YM

[42man]

Hopefully you will get some more input to this but I think under section 32 of the limitation act you may be able to take this back to court and get it set aside....is it a significant amount compared to what the total is ?

[Yorkmackem]

I don't think its statute barred as the action commenced about 3 years ago, but there's around 12k of 15k outstanding so fairly substantial. Having said that I would reckon about £5k of the outstanding comprises PPI and penalty charges, just depends whether I have a legal base to resurrect these issues again.