CCJ court claim form received

[jodenice]

I've just posted on MSE forums and somebody said this site may be able to help.

 

My boyfriend is on a debt management plan with CCCS and most of them are fine - however, this morning he received a CCJ application from hfC.

 

(this is exactly why he didn't want to go on a dmp in the first place and why he wanted us to just continue trying to pay the minimum payments for all his debts - which was impossible). what do we do? I let CCCS know ages ago and sent loads of copies of solicitors letters from the HFC side to the CCCS team and we never heard a thing back, although they acknowledged they had them.

 

We have already had letters from the solicitors, which I replied to saying he was with CCCS and then forwarded the letters to them. There was a bit of a mix up when we first started whereby HFC hadn't been included in the recipients pay list but that had been rectified by the time we got the solicitors letter.

 

The amount we owe them (according to the form) is 1772.75. They have added court fee of £75 and a solicitors cost of £80 making the total £1927.75. However, reading the particulars of the form its says we owe them £1544 and have incurred £253 costs. It was for an unsecured credit thing (buy now pay one year etc) for when my boyfriend bought his computer .

 

Do I pass this onto CCCS? It says we have a limited time to respond.

 

I'm not sure what to do. :?

[surfaceagentx20]

Can you please post the text of the Particulars of Claim which are set out on the Claim Form after deleting anything which might identify your BF?

 

Also can you please confirm out of which court the proceedings were issued?

 

x20

[AndyOrch]

" Do I pass this onto CCCS? It says we have a limited time to respond"

 

Defently not or you will end up with a CCJ

 

 

 

Andy;)

[jodenice]

Ok well the CCCS have told us to admit everything and have filled in a form with us. To be fair, we do owe them money and we can't afford to pay it so I'm not sure really what else we can do. (the debt is for a buy now pay by a certain date or get hit with a whack load of interest computer)

 

The particulars of claim are as follows

 

breach of agreement pursuant to the consumer credit act 1974. The defendant entered in to a written agreement with the cliamant. This agressment is regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The defendant is indebted to the Claimant in the sum of the £1544.77 and in respect of the said agreement under account number xxxxxxxxx and maintained by the Defendent at the claimants branch and the sum of £253.54 in respect of costs under the said agreement. In breach of the said agreement the defendant failed to make a payment in accordance with the agreed payment terms and the claimant issued and served a dafault notice upon the defendant and pursuant to section 87 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. By letter from the Claimanat to teh Defendant the Claimant demanded repayment fo the said sum but hte defendant has failed to repay the said sum. in the premises the defendant is indebted to the claimant in the sum of £1798.11 the claimant therefore claimes the balance due under the agreement.

 

please excuse typing, I lost the will to live halfway through.

[AndyOrch]

Have you requested a copy of the porported agreement that the claim is based on?

Did they issue a Default Notice prior to proceedings and did you recieve it?

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

[jodenice]

Nope haven't requested a copy, I think we have a copy ourselves somewhere.. and yes we did get a default notice and we told CCCS and they said to send the form through and they would contact them.

 

The thing that worries me is we have got to respond to all this by about the 20th November.

 

CCCS has said to admit everything, and send back our budget with the form, along with the CCCS recommendation of paying then 5.64 a month - I'm sure they're going to love that.

 

What I am worried about (apart from the CCJ for the next six years) is us being made to pay more despite all our spare money already going on our monthly dmp. Oh and the threats from the solicitor which say they may: apply to court for attachment of earnings, or issue a warrant for a bailiff or enforce by issuing a charge over our property. (we jointly own a mortgage)

[AndyOrch]

"Ok well the CCCS have told us to admit everything and have filled in a form with us" What form? What as been stated?

What have the CCCS done about the DN?

 

When do you have to AoS by?

 

 

 

Andy

[jodenice]

Its a court form from Northampton, its a county court claim form. (I've just re-read my first post and I haven't actually stated that, sorry). We have the choice to : agree with all claim and pay now OR agree with all claim and need time to pay OR admit only part of the claim or disagree with claim or want to counterclaim.

 

Has to be received by the solicitors by the 22nd (with an 'appropriate' payment offer or they claim in court)

[AndyOrch]

CCCS has said to admit everything, and send back our budget with the form, along with the CCCS recommendation of paying then 5.64 a month - I'm sure they're going to love that. Are either of you in employment?

 

What I am worried about (apart from the CCJ for the next six years) is us being made to pay more despite all our spare money already going on our monthly dmp. Oh and the threats from the solicitor which say they may: apply to court for attachment of earnings, or issue a warrant for a bailiff or enforce by issuing a charge over our property. (we jointly own a mortgage) Dont worry too much of the usual threats.

 

So I assume that HFC refused to be part of your DMP after the initial mix up in payments.Can I recommend not admitting any liability for the debt, partial or otherwise. If the credit agreement has not been requested or provided by HFC Finance as the result of a CCA request, then you have no way of ascertaining if the contract is legally valid under the CCA 1974. In the absence of this information, you are unwisely, in my opinion, admitting liability for a debt, that hasn't been proven to exist or one that conforms to the requirements of the CCA 1974.

 

You might be thinking that of course a debt exists! However, for the purposes of the law, the existence of the debt is determined by a credit agreement being furnished by your creditors and one that is deemed to be properly executed, which means its layout and content conforms to what the CCA 1974 prescribes.

 

You have tried the reasonable approach and found to your taste that they want to play hardball.

 

I trust the above is helpful.

 

Regards

 

Andy

Edited November 12, 2008 by Andyorch

[AndyOrch]

"Has to be received by the solicitors by the 22nd (with an 'appropriate' payment offer or they claim in court"

 

No you have to AoS (acknowledge service)This can be done on line there is a password on the summons.You have 33 days to action summons date +5 equals deemed served,you then have a further 14 days to AoS and then a further 14 days to submit a defence should you decide to defend the claim.So all in all 33 days from the date on the summons.

You dont do any of the above vis a vis their Solicitors you do it on line via Northampton.

So just leaves the decision of what your intention are admit all = CCJ

defend part = CCJ defend all = a possability of them coming to an amicable decision and accepting a reasonable payment.Choice is yours?

 

 

Regards

 

Andy;)

Edited November 12, 2008 by Andyorch

[jodenice]

We are both in employment. However, the debts are all my boyfs and he earns much less than me. He was diagnosed with clinical depression and some of the effects of this appear to be him going on a spending rampage (secretly). I found out, he went to doctors, was diagnosed, whereupon he has now set up the DMP and is slowly paying everyone back - slowly being the operative word. The reason we went for this was because a huge amount of my wages were going on his outstanding credit payments, yet when we looked at his wages, his half of the bills and his payments, he only had £145 free per month.

 

Sadly, this debt is one of the smaller ones. The DMP has been working well apart from this one company who want their money much faster than we can afford to give it to them.

 

Although HFC were missed from the original few payments they (or rather their solicitors) have been in receipt of a small monthly amount from the DMP. I don't know about the credit agreement and whether they requested it but would assume that they did, although I will check this out.

 

I'm not sure what to do next. I have no idea of what steps to take and am finding the whole process bewildering.

[jodenice]

"Has to be received by the solicitors by the 22nd (with an 'appropriate' payment offer or they claim in court"

 

No you have to AoS (acknowledge service)This can be done on line there is a password on the summons.You have 33 days to action summons date +5 equals deemed served,you then have a further 14 days to AoS and then a further 14 days to submit a defence should you decide to defend the claim.So all in all 33 days from the date on the summons.

You dont do any of the above vis a vis their Solicitors you do it on line via Northampton.

So just leaves the decision of what your intention are admit all = CCJ

defend part = CCJ defend all = a possability of them coming to an amicable decision and accepting a reasonable payment.Choice is yours?

 

 

Regards

 

Andy;)

 

So before I repsond I have to decide which course of action to take and then indicate this online. Is that right?

 

The problem we have is that what he is paying them is not what they will consider reasonable. yet there is no more money in the pot for them, we have very little left at the end of the month as it is.

[AndyOrch]

"Sadly, this debt is one of the smaller ones. The DMP has been working well apart from this one company who want their money much faster than we can afford to give it to them. Well life is tough and a wait in your BFs predicament so they should wait and take their turn

have they heard of pro rata?

 

I don't know about the credit agreement and whether they requested it but would assume that they did, although I will check this out. They cant request it only you can using the the letter in the templates section letter N.Enclose a £1.00 PO and dont sign the request .Post recorded Del at the least

 

I'm not sure what to do next. I have no idea of what steps to take and am finding the whole process bewildering. understandable and what the Claimant relies on

 

If you do decide to Defend the whole claim you will also need to send a CPR request ASAP along with the CCA request.I can post should you decide on this course of action

 

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

So before I repsond I have to decide which course of action to take and then indicate this online. Is that right? Yes only you can make that decision

 

The problem we have is that what he is paying them is not what they will consider reasonable. yet there is no more money in the pot for them, we have very little left at the end of the month as it is.

Tough they will have to accept and wait their turn.

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

[jodenice]

I have just seen a fantastic letter from someone on another post - really hard hitting etc.

 

I have a few questions - we know we owe them money so what exactly would our defence be??? I know we are trying to pay them off but its going to take years.

 

2 - if I send them this letter demanding credit agreements, charges, etc... does it automatically mean that I am defending? Can i get all this information and still admit it if the evidence is there? (want cake + eat it!)

 

3 - To defend it - do you actually have to be there? I am happy to do all of this but its my boyfriends debt and I doubt he would travel to Northampton to plea his case to a judge (its been a fairly traumatic few months and he just wants it all over with, even at the cost of a CCJ against his name)

 

4 - to complete the acknowledgement of service, and therefore get more time, means that you are contesting it?

 

PS i should have said earlier, really appreciate you taking the time to reply to this, its been really informative and helpful.

Edited November 12, 2008 by jodenice

[AndyOrch]

Ok jodenice

 

lets take it one step at a time

 

You can defend/contest their actions in the matter.There are many ways to draft a defence without admitting a thing.Do you think they have been amicable in bringing said claim?

 

By sending said letter does not mean a defence but rather putting the account in dispute(this is normally pre litigation) but there is plenty you can do to halt the claim

 

When you defend a claim you you simply halt an automated process.CCBC (northampton) is a bulk summons centre hence on line access.

This is the process AoS (gives you an extra 14 days) make plea (if defend all gives you another 14 days.Submit defence Northampton forwards your defence to claimant.Claimant has 28 days to respond or back down.If they proceed you will recieve an AQ ( Allocation Questioniiare) this transfers the case to your local CC.if they fail to respond then the claim goes to stay.

Once you have done the AoS on line do no more at this stage think what you intend to do ,you have a further 14 days to decide what your action is to be so no you are not contesting anything at this stage.

 

just post if you are unsure of anything

 

Regards

 

Andy

[jodenice]

OK well just had an email from someone who works at CCCS and they say, as we borrowed the money we have to admit the debt. As its not like they got the wrong person or we didn't borrow the money.

 

*bangs head on desk*

[AndyOrch]

I dont dispute there are 52 weeks in a year either

[havinastella]

just a quick few points. HFC do normally have a good paper trail, but its always your right to ask them for a copy of your CCA.

 

You have to defend at least part of the claim, as HFC CANNOT add illegal charges. You can do this is two ways

 

1) Make a counter claim

 

2) Use a little known right off 'set off'

 

This is just a very small point but it will save you a bit of money upfront on court fees.

 

If you make a counter claim you also have to pay a court fee.

 

However, if you say that, as part of your defence, you have the right of equitable set-off of these charges against the amount claimed then you are counter-claiming the charges but you don't need to pay the fee

 

 

 

If anybody is interested here is a bot about the different types of set-off:-

 

The 1958 Court of Appeal decision in the case of Hanak -v- Green is regarded as one of the key decisions defining the modern law of set-off. It may now be said there are four forms in which a set-off can arise: 1) Mutual liquidated debts (sometimes called legal set-off). A cross claim can be set-off as a defence if the amount of the debt is known or can be readily and without difficulty ascertained. 2) Equitable set-off (sometimes called transaction set-off). The test as to whether a cross claim can be relied upon as an equitable set-off is whether it is so closely connected with the claim that it would be manifestly unjust to allow the claim without taking into account the cross claim. 3) Contractual set-off. The contract may dictate certain procedures that must be observed to preserve the right to apply a set-off 4) Statutory set-off. For example, under rule 4.90 of the Insolvency Rules 1986 an employer can set-off any claims it can prove against monies owing to an insolvent contractor.

[jodenice]

I'm not sure why are the charges illegal?

 

Would I be mounting a defence in the hope that they couldn't be bothered to appeal in court?

 

I am stuck on what my defence would be? That we are trying to pay them anyway?

[supasnooper]

Read some other threads to give yourself an idea of what happens and the timescales involved and of course pick up some invaluable tips as well.

 

You've got some great advice from andyorch and havinastella to be getting on with as well.

[AndyOrch]

I'm not sure why are the charges illegal? Because they are penalty charges and can be offset to reduce the claimants claim amount

 

Would I be mounting a defence in the hope that they couldn't be bothered to appeal in court? Dont bank on it but if you dont you never know they win you lose

 

I am stuck on what my defence would be? That we are trying to pay them anyway?

That the claim is subject to penalty charges, that they have issued a claim vextatiously ,that the Default Note is invalid etc etc even the CCA may be invalid hence my earlier post #9

 

 

Andy:cool:

[jodenice]

OK cool, I am reading through other threads too, thanks everyone.

 

I shall have to talk to other half (& CCCS) and see what to do.

 

I have sent off a letter to the solicitors asking for the original credit agreement, any fines, any insurance added etc.

 

Jo

[havinastella]

sorry had to do a bit of work today

 

 

Was the letter like this one?

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) County Court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

[Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered a request for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. That request was ignored][delete if no such request was delivered]

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1 the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 the assignment*

 

3 the default notice*

 

4 the termination notice*

 

5 [any other documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim]*

 

* delete if not mentioned in the Particulars of claim.

 

[Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise]#

 

# delete if claim for a sum exceeding £5,000.00

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

yours faithfully

[jodenice]

yes it was like that, I copied and amended another one I found on the site, it was a bit more stern, but yours looks more applicable I may go grab my envelope and use this one instead (its in my work post, if I get it now I can change it!!)