arrow global/ stevensdrake asking for statement of means

[sheldonrobbo]

Does anyone know what they mean when they say amex terminated the agreement???.....also what is the reference to rankin versus amex???

 

 

sheldon

[sheldonrobbo]

anyone got any ideas what i should do next ....as i am not sure what the next step is ??

 

 

sheldon

[shammy36]

subscribing

[itsamomentintime]

can you scan the agreement on here?

[sheldonrobbo]

have attached the cca and covering letter

 

sheldon

[42man]

Bit small..try using Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket it is free and there is a tutorial here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bear-garden/165941-photobucket-video-tutorial.html

[sheldonrobbo]

these links were the only way i could do it

http://i421.photobucket.com/albums/pp294/sheldonrobbo/sd1.jpg

http://i421.photobucket.com/albums/pp294/sheldonrobbo/sd2.jpg

 

sheldon

[BarmyRockChick]

News and Events : Articles : Judgment: Basil Rankine vs American Express Services Europe Limited

 

I googled it. It's the court case that the couple off Panarama did.

Not sure how they think it effects you and what you asked them for though!

 

Jo x

[sheldonrobbo]

News and Events : Articles : Judgment: Basil Rankine vs American Express Services Europe Limited

 

I googled it. It's the court case that the couple off Panarama did.

Not sure how they think it effects you and what you asked them for though!

 

Jo x

 

 

wow...just browsed through it .....now i'm really confused

 

sheldon

[42man]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/160750-any-dca-quoting-rankin.html?highlight=rankine

[sheldonrobbo]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/160750-any-dca-quoting-rankin.html?highlight=rankine

 

 

but they've sent the cca

 

sheldon

[itsamomentintime]

but they've sent the cca

 

sheldon

 

 

there are no prescribed terms therefore this 'agreement' is completely unenforceable

[sheldonrobbo]

i'm a little confused ....what are the prescribed terms?? ....i thought it contained them

 

sheldon

[itsamomentintime]

i'm a little confused ....what are the prescribed terms?? ....i thought it contained them

 

sheldon

 

sorry i meant terms and conditions

[sheldonrobbo]

sorry i meant terms and conditions

 

the terms and conditions are on a seperate sheet which i was unable to scan properly....so does that mean its enforceable??

 

sheldon

[sheldonrobbo]

if the agreement is enforceable ....whats my next move ....negotiating a payment plan i presume ???

[42man]

CCA RULES FOR PRESCRIBED TERMS

CONSUMER CREDIT ACT

8.2 What if prescribed terms are missing or incorrect?

 

s127(3) provides that the court may not make an enforcement order unless a document containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor – see Q1.21.

 

If therefore any of the prescribed terms is missing, or incorrect, the agreement is not enforceable against the debtor, and the court is precluded from making an enforcement order.

 

 

8.3 What are the prescribed terms?

 

The prescribed terms specified in Sch 6 are as follows:

 

* amount of credit – see Q8.

 

* credit limit – see Q8.5

* repayments – see Q8.9.

* rate of interest – see Q8.6

 

Sch 6 was not amended by the 2004 Regulations.

IS MY AGREEMENT ENFORCEABLE( Via section 127(3) CCA1974)

PRESCRIBED TERMS FOR THE PURPOSES OF SECTIONS 61(1)(0) AND 127(3) OF THE

CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974 Taken from sced.6(1983/1553) regulations

(If you just want to find out, skip the bits in between the stars it’s just some extra information)

 

**What do we mean by unenforceable?

In the Consumer Credit Act section 127 there is a provision for making an agreement unenforceable if it does not contain certain pieces of information.

Subsections 1,2,3,4 state which pieces of information these are, and everything mentioned there must be included within the body of the agreement, if one is missing the agreement is unenforceable.

 

How does unenforceable differ from enforceable with a court order only?

When an agreement is unenforceable it means that the court or the judge cannot make a ruling on it. The court cannot make it enforceable.

When an agreement is enforceable only by ruling of the court it means that the agreement can be stopped by the debtor but the court has the power to re-instate it and allow the credit to continue to enforce.**

 

The Prescribed Terms are these

 

A Amount of credit

A term stating the amount of credit

 

B Repayments

A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following-

(a) Number of repayments;

(b) Amount of repayments;

© Frequency and timing of repayments;

(d) Dates of repayments;

(e) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

 

C Rate of interest

A term stating the rate of interest to be applied to the credit issued under the agreement

D Credit limit

This may be a term or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.

--------------------------

 

Which of these applies to you depends on the type of agreement you have?

 

For a Running Account (credit card) agreement

 

BC and D Apply

 

For a Restricted Use Debtor Creditor Supplier

• Where the dealer is the supplier and the creditor is the one providing the finance.
  
• The money can only be used for the purpose it is given.
  
• There is no interest on the purchase (the cash price is the same as the total price)
  
• And there is no advance payment
  

A is applicable

 

For a fixed Sum Credit Agreement

A conventional credit agreement with none of the above restrictions

 

A and B apply

 

For a Hire Agreement

 

B is Applicable

 

This paper only covers section 127(3) of the Act agreements can also be unenforceable by contravention of sections 1 and4 this will be the subject of the next paper.

Please note that these Prescribed terms where not changed in any way by the 2004/1482 Ammendments although the form in which they appear on the agreement was. Subsection127(3) was repealed on the 6th of April 2007 so that unenforceability due to 127(3) will only apply to agreements executed before that date.

[42man]

A valid credit agreement must contain certain terms within the signature document (s.60(1)(2) CCA 1974). These core terms are the credit limit, repayment terms and the rate of interest (SI 1983/1553 (6 Signing of agreement) which states that the prescribed terms must be within the signature document. (Column 2 schedule 6). s.61(1)(a) states the agreement must contain all the prescribed terms and be signed by both the debtor and on behalf of the creditor.

 

Further, s.127(3) CCA 1974 makes the account unenforceable if it is not in the proper form and content or improperly executed.

 

In Wilson and another v Hurstanger Ltd (2007) it was stated “In my judgment the objective of Schedule 6 is to ensure that, as an inflexible condition of enforceability, certain basic minimum terms are included which the parties … and/or the court can identify within the four corners of the agreement. Those minimum provisions combined with the requirement under s.61 that all the terms should be in a single document, and backed up by the provisions of section 127(3), ensure that these core terms are expressly set out in the agreement itself: they cannot be orally agreed; they cannot be found in another document; they cannot be implied; and above all they cannot be in the slightest mis-stated. As a matter of policy, the lender is denied any room for manoeuvre in respect of them. On the other hand, they are basic provisions, and the only question for the court is whether they are, on a true construction, included in the agreement”.

[sheldonrobbo]

seems like the agreement has all those ....so i guess its enforceable....i better get negotiating with them

 

 

sheldon

[sheldonrobbo]

Have drafted a letter today offering payment of £100 per month....can't really afford that much at the moment as work is a bit thin on the ground ....but not sure they would accept less

 

sheldon

[ohoh4312]

Have drafted a letter today offering payment of £100 per month....can't really afford that much at the moment as work is a bit thin on the ground ....but not sure they would accept less

 

sheldon

 

Personally I would only offer them what you can reasonably afford - going in too high, and then struggling to maintain the payment could cause you a lot more problems in the future.

 

So I would offer less - if they are unreasonable, where you are being reasonable, this will go in your favour should any further action be taken. And, if I may say, don't offer to make top-up payments if you find you have some surplus some months - then they think you are selling them short and will demand a higher payment.

 

Just my opinion - all the best. xx

[Fred Bassett]

Have drafted a letter today offering payment of £100 per month....can't really afford that much at the moment as work is a bit thin on the ground ....but not sure they would accept less

 

sheldon

 

sheldon,

 

OHOH is right, don't whatever you do, offer them more than you can afford. If you've worked out your income and expenditure and you know that you can only afford, say £30, then offer them that and start paying them that.

 

They know full well that they run the risk if they take you to court of actually getting less.

 

Don't forget too that your income and expenditure is your private business. They have no right whatsoever to know these details so if they ask, refuse.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[The GodMother]

you hve said the t&cs are on a seperate document then that is not within the four corner of the agreement

[sheldonrobbo]

you hve said the t&cs are on a seperate document then that is not within the four corner of the agreement

 

 

 

as i understand it they were originally on the reverse of the signed agreement page

 

sheldon

[sheldonrobbo]

have now adjusted my letter, now offering them £50 a month ...which is affordable for now and offering to increase it if i get more work.....being self employed its more difficult to maintain regular payments, but then i don't suppose they're interested in that

 

sheldon

Edited December 14, 2008 by sheldonrobbo
missed word out