AA99 v GE Money Car Loan

[AA99]

Hi Guys, thanks for the replies. I will upload the finance part of the agreement on photobucket soonest. Basically, once the price of the car was agreed and the trade-in on my old car, the Carcraft salesman offered me a 5-year warranty for £800 which could be added on to the loan cost. The additional warranty covered all sorts of things like glass and electrics which aren't covered in their own normal warranty and as 90% of the car is electrics, was advised to take this out which I did. Now, looking at the breakdown of the finances the Insurance/Warranty Loan element is showing as over £40 p.m. over 5 years.

 

Will hopefully make more sense when I upload it or would it be better to email it to you first?

[AA99]

Another Shoosmiths letter received yesterday saying I had made no attempt to bring arrears up to date. In order to stop the repossession of your vehicle or legal action being taken against you, please contact ......

[AA99]

What is it about the figures AA99 ? Have you worked them out to see if they are correct ?

 

http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo349/AA99/GEMoney/Contractfigures.jpg

[42man]

I'm not great on working out these finance agreements AA, did you see this thread ? - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/168115-mathematicians-needed-help-credit.html

[atwozee]

Hi there AA99 – I see you are getting lots of good advice on this thread – the DN is definitely invalid as has already been stated and therefore any claim made by them, if correctly defended, will fall down.

 

You’ve sent off for your credit agreement and hopefully they will reply to your request – however, one thing to bear in mind is that a s77 request is only relevant for an active agreement and not one that has been terminated – small point but worth knowing. It’s a little bit grey as to whether your agreement is now terminated but I think we can say that it’s more than likely because of the issue of the DN and following demand for full balance.

 

If you request to see your credit agreement under a S.A.R then they will have to comply by sending you an exact copy of your agreement – creditors and dca’s are starting to avoid s78 requests for terminated agreements where they can.

 

It is important to remember that the creditor will have to rely on a written agreement (which is legible) and produce the original in court, or convince a judge that a copy of said agreement is acceptable – otherwise any claim made will fall down.

 

The other thing to remember (because of the age of your agreement) is that to enforce the agreement (in court) the creditor must produce a document (whether in the correct format or not) that is signed by the debtor and contains all of the prescribed terms as is a requirement of the 1983 regulations. Either a s77 request or a S.A.R will reveal if they have such a document.

 

Your copy of the agreement, IMHO, looks enforceable – for this type of agreement they only need to specify the amount of credit and repayments and as long as these prescribed terms have been correctly stated then a court could enforce.

 

The prescribed terms are ‘Amount of credit’ and this is stated as the cash price £11300.00 and the ‘Repayments’ and these have been clearly stated and seem to add up.

 

So the big question is – has the agreement been terminated? If it has then the creditor will be unable to address the problem of the invalid DN (albeit they may be able to claim for the amount owed in arrears minus any charges)

 

My advise is to try and get the creditor to inform you if the agreement has been terminated and then argue the invalid DN in court (if it comes to that) I would therefore advise you to write a simple letter to the creditor stating that before the full balance can be demanded the agreement must first be terminated and you seek clarification as to whether that is the case.

 

I would also advise you to make token payments of what you can currently afford against the agreement.

[AA99]

Thank you for that!

[AA99]

Atwozee, please could you clarify the 2 different interest rates for me. Under Key Financial Information the APR is 18.2% but under Other Financial Information the rate is 9.0% p.a.

 

I also got off their website the name and cell phone no. of their Motor Finance Director who I phoned today to find out why nobody has responded to 5 letters to them and to determine who the Head Boy is and was promptly given the name and physical address of their Operations Manager to write to. He was going to phone him personally and advise him to look out for my name and letter and make sure I get a positive response

[atwozee]

I can only see the APR of 18.2

[AA99]

Yes, sorry, I had to enlarge it for the figures to be legible, it continues to the top of the page on the right-handside with the interest rates is 9.0% as if the page 1 is almost in 2 columns.

[AA99]

Don't know if this original will help (or work for that matter)

 

[atwozee]

TBH I’m not sure why – but I don’t think it would impact on the enforceability of the agreement. Probably doesn’t help you sorry.

Like I said earlier – you need to establish if the agreement has been terminated and then rely on the defective default notice.

[supasnooper]

Hi AA99,

 

As atwozee has stated, the default Notice is defective (But don't mention it to GE money as they may re-issue a valid DN) and you would need to establish that the agreement is terminated.

 

In my opinion the agreement is still live and I would expect their next step would be either -

a/ Pass to a DCA for collection.

or

b/ Take you to court.

 

However, as I understand it, once they take you to court then termination would be established as having taken place.

 

Their default notice doesn't state that they may\will terminate the agreement unlike most others.

[AA99]

Thanks

[supasnooper]

Have a read of BRW's post re. termination on this thread at post #49

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1857336.html

Edited August 20, 2009 by citizenB
renewed corrupt link

[AA99]

Sorry, that link doesn't have 49 posts, can you re-send it? Thanks;)

[AA99]

This has surely to affect GE here in the UK, but how ?

 

GE, Santander Close $1.5B Business Swap | Financial Services | Financial Articles & Investing News | TheStreet.com

[supasnooper]

Try this link -

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1857336.html

[AA99]

Try this link -

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1857336.html

 

 

Yes, that was good, very useful advice there. May need some help getting my letter off tomorrow. In my depths of concentration of the DN, I forgot to post the following this week:

 

Letter dated 5 Jan received 7 Jan from Shoosmiths advising me that they have received no positive response from me so they are handing back to GE Money in the next 48 hours. In the meantime, from their website I phoned on his cellphone the Motor Finance Director who was a very pleasant chap and distressed to hear my problem. He gave me the personal name and physical address of the Operations Manager whom he was going to phone to tell him to look out for my personal letter of complaint.

 

The last correspondence I received directly from GE was 26 November confirming their awareness that we had problems with full repayment and asking me to complete an I&E again!!!!!!!!!!!! They received one 5 times now!!!!!!

[AA99]

ps. In the course of the conversation on the phone, I was told the company are being taken over or something to that effect (reshuffle?) and that Huw Vaughan that I had been corresponding with all last year is no longer with them! Changes afoot ?

[AA99]

:mad:Please could someone help me finish this letter off. Shall I enclose further copies of stuff or let them find ALL my letters in their offices. Do I need to quote any official bodies or laws? Would really like to get it out today:?

NOTICE OF FORMAL COMPLAINT

Dear Mr Personal Name of Ops Manager

AGREEMENT NO. xxxxxxxxxxxx

Your name was given to me by Mr Personal name of Motor Finance Director last week who I telephoned to determine who at your company I could correspond with in order to obtain a written reply to my situation.

I have been corresponding endlessly with Judith Cochrane and Huw Vaughan since June last year but have not yet received a positive response. All letters have been sent by Recorded Delivery.

Since acquiring this loan in March 2005 a total of £250 charges have been added in addition to the arrears that have accumulated since I started endeavouring to arrange a Temporary Hardship Reduced Payment Plan with you. As explained at the time my husband went onto receipt of Incapacity Benefit, I was unable to meet Direct Debits on a specific date as his benefits were being paid 2 or 4-weekly. Your company cancelled my direct debit in July 2008 in order to avoid your monthly charge of £30 plus £15, in addition to my own bank’s charge of £30.

GEMoney have 3 times acknowledged my hardship and I have sent Income & Expenditure forms together with supporting documents on 08 August, 08 September, 26 September, 05 November, and 19 November. I have also copied EDR and Shoosmiths in on these letters in order to avoid their continuing harassment.

On 08 August I telephoned your office and was advised to offer you 25%, £55 p.m., which I confirmed I could manage. I am on reduced payment plans with other creditors at £20 p.m. each. I have also explained that in addition, I have a small son who is in receipt of Disability Living Allowance and it is imperative that I have the use of a car and that my phone lines are kept open.

Please be advised that I require the total charges to be removed from my account and I require a Repayment Plan to be arranged wherein I can start repaying my arrears at £55 p.m.

[lexis200]

In light of the fact that they have already issued you an invalid DN, could you add into your letter that if you don't receive a formal acceptance of your payment plan by x date, you will have no choice (considering your financial state and all the factors you have already told them of) but to start paying them £55 anyway?

 

Either they would have to just suck it up and accept it, or they may (preferably) terminate the account, thus allowing you to go along the invalid DN line.

 

As you know from my thread with MBNA, we simply started paying them what we had offered when they wouldn't accept it. They aren't happy about it, but as with you we're tenants and on benefits, so there's not a lot they can do without going down the court route. Obviously it's not worth them doing that as they'll only get awarded what we can afford if they do that!

[AA99]

In light of the fact that they have already issued you an invalid DN, could you add into your letter that if you don't receive a formal acceptance of your payment plan by x date, you will have no choice (considering your financial state and all the factors you have already told them of) but to start paying them £55 anyway?

 

Either they would have to just suck it up and accept it, or they may (preferably) terminate the account, thus allowing you to go along the invalid DN line.

 

As you know from my thread with MBNA, we simply started paying them what we had offered when they wouldn't accept it. They aren't happy about it, but as with you we're tenants and on benefits, so there's not a lot they can do without going down the court route. Obviously it's not worth them doing that as they'll only get awarded what we can afford if they do that!

 

Yes, that is exactly what I wanted to start doing, however, I don't want my repayments to only reduce all the charges. Just wanted to finish it off more sternly! Will wait for a couple more suggestions too, thanks

[davey77]

I would also add, something along the lines of:

 

Your refusal to reach an accommodating resolution to this matter will be considered deliberate victimisation and discrimination on your part as you have wilfully and purposefully ignored our/my current situation and (the/our) status as being in receipt of DLA and the need to keep enough funds available for the use of the phone line and vehicle (that i have previously stated are required, in part, for medical emergencies).

 

I therefore give you fair notice that i will instruct a solicitor to be my legal representative and inform the national press should your reply not be satisfactory.

[davey77]

Or the last paragraph could be "having taken legal advise i have become aware your intentional refusal to negotiate could be classed as deliberate discrimination under the Disability Discrimination Act and therefore... etc"

 

Now, i don't really know if the DDA really covers such things as i believe it's just about access to buildings and being treated fairly in employment situations but perhaps reading the Act could be worth while to see if there is anything in there that you could use in some way?

 

Disability Discrimination Act 1995 (c. 50)

 

Disability Discrimination Act 2005 (c. 13)

[davey77]

You could ask why they are deliberately discriminating against households receiving DLA (for a child) by failing to communicate clearly/fairly and is this an active policy by their company or just the actions of a rogue and intolerant employee?

 

If the later, does this employee have the tacit endorsement by their company to allow such disadvantaged households to be treated unfairly and does their company sanction such prejudiced, unlawful and possible outright illegal behaviour.