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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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LTSB Account closed


sempei
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Hi all, it's been a while since my last post :rolleyes:

Well, my personal account has gone over the overdarft limit, I asked LTSB to increase it, which was refused. Since then it's got worse, I have just worked out the charges over £4K in 15 months. Prelim letter sent today to claim these back.

Well, I also have (had) a business account with them which has never been in arrears or even close. This week I went online to check the balance and was denied access, the following day I called the business centre and was told I had been informed in writing (nothing received) that they had closed my account and that if I had a complaint to put it in writing and he hung up !!!

i have written a 3 page statement of events and took into my local branch to be forwarded to the ilusive complaints dept..... I have given them 14 days to respond before I send a copy to the FOS etc.

 

Can they just close my account which has been in credit since opening and without any 'issues'

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Guest Old_andrew2018

They seem to think they can, however any reasonable person would view this a retaliation by LTSB,

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I know a little late, but do not maintain your personal and business accounts at the same bank, keeps temptation away from the bank, like offsetting a business overdraft against a personal account, your example etc.

 

By all means complain to the FOS etc.

 

I know with personal accounts the banks can close at will, so long as they give you 30 days notice, not sure with business accounts though.

If I have been helpful please click on my star and add a comment.

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I'd agree on keeping business account at a separate bank wherever possible. Had a new venture a while back that didn't all go to plan, although it didn't have any debt. Made it hell to get anything done with my personal account though - even ordering a new debit card because the old one was damaged had to go through the business account managers :S

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Hi, I know it's too late now lol :D

I went to the NatWest Monday 18th to open a new business account and it was declined !!!! Hmmm, the business manager was quite apologetic and I filled out a manual form for a basic business account without O/draft facilities, which is what I wanted anyway. She said she would know probably Weds 20th if it was ok.

I wonder if LTSB has done something to my credit file, I hope that the basic account is opened or I am not sure what else I can do....?

Edited by sempei
mis typed
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ok, got the basic business account open today - Yeah, thanks to Natwest. Also received another letter today, sorry to hear you are unhappy etc from LTSB we will respond within 4 weeks etc.

Do I stick with the timescale in my complaint letter ie 14 days before sending that and follow up letters to the financial ombudsman service, is this deemed as a reasonable amount of time ?:confused:

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Hi Sempie,

as far as I know you have to wait until you get the final responce letter from Lloyds before you can take your case to the FOS

having said that I do believe that The FSA take retaliatory measures very seriously.

make sure you keep a record of any calls you make or receive, take the name of the person you talk to and note the date and time of the call.

If you don't get a satifactory responce then contact the FOS and FSA with as much detail as possible and include copies of any letters that you write or receive

Good luck with this

Shooter x

ps. Buisness accounts are not covered by the test case!

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

:)Surely life can't get any worse it has to only get better from hear on out:)

 

LTSB- My claim like thousands of others is Stayed

Cap 1-See my tread about that one

Barclaycard- Won before court stage

GE capital -2 accounts and LTSB card letter asking for refund stage (Waiting for out come of the above to carry on with these ones )

Sars sent for all my mums accounts

About to start PPI claims on My Mums accounts

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Kinc - They did not transfer funds between the accounts. I did not receive anything in writing before they closed the account, I only found out by calling them, he did state that they had written to me, which I have not received or I would have put measures in place to prevent any loss of business.

I have received a ' we have closed your account' and attached is a cheque for the balance £***.**

I have also had five letters refering to my personal account ranging from you have an agreed overdraft for £1000 and £4300 written on the same day also one stating that I cannot use the account (already given the card and cheque book back) and an Enforcement notice telling me that I need to pay back the full amount!!! Do they know what they are doing ??:rolleyes:

I have received two 'sorry your not happy' letters as I took a 3 page complaint letter into my local branch, they posted it to Birmingham as they didn't have a fax number for them.... I received one letter from Birmingham stating they sent it to Andover as they specialise in cases like mine?!!?:D and received one today from -Bristol (not Andover)

I have kept copies of all these which already fill a plastic wallet.

The 'voicing your concerns' letter allows them 8 weeks to respond, I want this sorted and don't really see why I should wait.....

They are also charging me £60+ a month in interest against the personal account payment plan, I have read on this site that someone had a plan put in place where they froze the interest....

 

Anyone else had this ? I would want this as part of a remedy. What sort of response do you think I will get from my complaint.??

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Hi sempei

 

Kinc - They did not transfer funds between the accounts. I did not receive anything in writing before they closed the account, I only found out by calling them, he did state that they had written to me, which I have not received or I would have put measures in place to prevent any loss of business.

I have received a ' we have closed your account' and attached is a cheque for the balance £***.**

I have also had five letters refering to my personal account ranging from you have an agreed overdraft for £1000 and £4300 written on the same day also one stating that I cannot use the account (already given the card and cheque book back) and an Enforcement notice telling me that I need to pay back the full amount!!! Do they know what they are doing ??:rolleyes:

I have received two 'sorry your not happy' letters as I took a 3 page complaint letter into my local branch, they posted it to Birmingham as they didn't have a fax number for them.... I received one letter from Birmingham stating they sent it to Andover as they specialise in cases like mine?!!?:D and received one today from -Bristol (not Andover)

I have kept copies of all these which already fill a plastic wallet.

The 'voicing your concerns' letter allows them 8 weeks to respond, I want this sorted and don't really see why I should wait.....

They are also charging me £60+ a month in interest against the personal account payment plan, I have read on this site that someone had a plan put in place where they froze the interest....

That would be me!!

 

Anyone else had this ? I would want this as part of a remedy. What sort of response do you think I will get from my complaint.??

 

Personally I would now write to

 

Jon Bundy

Customer Service Recovery Centre

Queen's Rd Quadrant

4th Floor

BRIGHTON

BN1 3XJ

 

He's the one that helped me

 

See My thread here,

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/114478-belville-lloyds.html

 

if you want any help just post and help will be along

 

belville x

Edited by Belville

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

:)Surely life can't get any worse it has to only get better from hear on out:)

 

LTSB- My claim like thousands of others is Stayed

Cap 1-See my tread about that one

Barclaycard- Won before court stage

GE capital -2 accounts and LTSB card letter asking for refund stage (Waiting for out come of the above to carry on with these ones )

Sars sent for all my mums accounts

About to start PPI claims on My Mums accounts

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Thanks Belville;), I have been reading your thread over the past few weeks with interest. My Son is also ill and we have to drive a 120 mile round trip every week for treatment. I have also added this into my complaint letter. keeping my fingers crossed.

Sempei

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Sempei please feel free to pm me if you need a shoulder.

Are you on benefits cause if so are you receiving your fares back from your hospital trips?

(((hugs)))

belville xx

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

:)Surely life can't get any worse it has to only get better from hear on out:)

 

LTSB- My claim like thousands of others is Stayed

Cap 1-See my tread about that one

Barclaycard- Won before court stage

GE capital -2 accounts and LTSB card letter asking for refund stage (Waiting for out come of the above to carry on with these ones )

Sars sent for all my mums accounts

About to start PPI claims on My Mums accounts

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Hey Belville appreciate the offer:wink:, we only have family tax credit, I have been looking online about refunding of transport costs via NHS and DSS etc but it's not too clear.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hiya,

 

Ok, update. I have received a letter the end of last week stating that Customer service recovery- Andover had received my complaint and if it was about bank charges- read on, it went to mention the OFT test case etc. If not and it was due to another issue please let us know !!!

I called the number and got an answer phone, left a very curt meassage stating that had they read my letter, they would have known what the complaint was about etc.....

Received a call Monday from Andover, explained the history etc and she appologised and put me on hold, when she came back she stated that I could in fact log the complaint over the phone and gave me a telephone number, I called and left a message. Received a call back today Tues from a company, they went on to say that I had left a message on their answerphone etc and it was in fact the wrong number. I have checked the number I was given and it matches the one I called!!!

 

The only thing I can think is that Birmingham sent it to two centres, Andover for the charges, Bristol for the complaint about the account closure. I really don't know what's going on now, LTSB has really confused me :confused::confused:

Is it worth ssending the FOS complaint form with supporting letters yet ??

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  • 2 weeks later...
Hey Belville appreciate the offer:wink:, we only have family tax credit, I have been looking online about refunding of transport costs via NHS and DSS etc but it's not too clear.

 

Ask the hospital for a form to claim back the transport fare. We have the same prob as we live in essex and travel to GOSH every 6 weeks. I can not for the life of me remember what the form was called but the hospital will be able to advise. There should be a office where you would ask for your fare back at the hospital. Go there, they will help.

 

Good luck

 

olives xx

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