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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

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Hi,

Brilliant site this - theres millions of us being taken for fools every day and hardly anybody realises it.

 

I've been a royal bank customer for the last 4 years (since i was 15), and over the few years ive paid hundreds in charges. Up until last september i always had wages going into my account every month, quite a lot sometimes was working several jobs for a long time. I've got to admit im not the best at managing my money, and have dipped into the red by mistake a few times, not leaving enough there for direct debit's and stuff, hardly financial ruin as ive always had regular income. Still, the bank refused me an overdraft when i started uni in september, even tho its a student royalties account, i dont see any benefits in it - wouldnt even give me a hundred quid in case i dip in by mistake - so ive been scraping by. All of my student loan payments are paid into the account, a few thousand a year in 3 or 4 installments. I've been fined a couple of times and the fines seem to keep growing and growing. Just the other week i didnt leave enough in for my phone bill and another direct debit, so they came off and left me about £25 in the red. A few days later i paid in a cheque for £350 putting me well back in the black. today i logged onto my internet banking and it was a depressing site - a charge of £39.74 (why that amount ive no idea) and a 'referral charge' of £60 :Cry::Cry::Cry: so thats £100 for being £25 under for a few days...

 

Needless to say i really can't afford this, its destroyed the money i was leaving to cover my payments this month. I know in the grand scheme of things its not huge money, but its enough to make a major difference to me. I have complained before to my branch and was told to clear off basically, even got a meeting with the manager and she just told me to clear off the charges are fair and square (in not so many words), she's a charming woman to say the least :p I'm going to go back through my statements and add it all up and send them the letter from the library on here (good letter :D )!

 

Fingers crossed eh. Cant deny it i've been in the wrong due to not managing my money, but the charges are ridiculous. It all adds up so quickly and snowballs like crazy. Just between me and a few other students i know they've had thousands of pounds.

 

Will set things in motion in the next few days, i dont see any reason why they should deny me it's definetely worth the try (dont know too much about law etc, just what ive read on here, FAQs etc).

 

Anyway, thats my rant over for the day, will post up on here if i hear from them or whatever.

 

cheers

Stuart!

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Good post. I'm in a similar position, although mostly because they are charging for direct debits that I have previously cancelled and I'm currently fighting about £300 of charges. Will go into this fully in a seperate thread at a later date, but some great info on this site.

 

Some excellent info on this site too. http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cgi-bin/viewnews.cgi?newsid1141050760,24632#reclaim

I only mouth my opinion, please look elsewhere for sensible advice! :)

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Did you suffer anycharges before you were 18?

Are you still on the same acocunt as you were when you were 15?

Did you sign a new account contract when you became 18?

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Did you suffer anycharges before you were 18?

Are you still on the same acocunt as you were when you were 15?

Did you sign a new account contract when you became 18?

 

I don't think i did get charged for anything before I was 18, no, as I didn't have any direct debits or anything. I didn't sign a contract when I turned 18, but i signed a contract when i changed from a route 21 account to a student acccount a few months later, so i think the paperwork is all in order.

 

I was home the other day and dug out all my statements, out of roughly 100 pages i have about 60 of them, and the charges on the pages i have (think its most of them) add upto £339.74 - over the last 1yr 7mths. £17.88 a month for the last 19 months, on average. The scary thing is how much the charges have increased over this relatively small period of time. Towards the end of 2004 i got a couple of fines for dipping under and was always charged about £10, which i never questioned because that's not so unfair. This 'Referral Charge' appeared sometime last year, on top of the regular charge, worst i've had is £120 in charges for going about £30 under, cant remember the exact figures off the top of my head. The only explanation I can see for this is greed - the bank's costs certainly haven't increased by 12x - if anything they will have reduced; a computer issues the charges, and computing power is getting greater every year :lol:

 

I've been very busy with uni winding up for the year and stuff, but will get round to having a go at them soon.

 

cheers, Stuart

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  • 10 months later...

well... finally!

 

yes its taken me a lot lot longer than expected (priorities - uni, work, and more work!) and it slipped to the back of my mind but im finally ready to go ahead, hopefully once its going itll all happen quickly enough. I sent the data request about 2 weeks ago and just got a copy of all my statements going back to the year 2000, so just need to sort through them all and sort out the schedule of all the charges, ive not finished yet but its looking like its going to be about £800ish. So, this should all be sent off to the bank on Thursday/Friday!

 

Now that things are in motion i should be on here a bit more often (i half thought this thread would have been deleted), reading and learning, will keep this updated if/when i hear from the bank.

 

Cheers for now,

Stuart

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Stuart, it's great that you're back. I wish I knew about this back when you joined in March 2006 but I know how studies and work can be distracting. Don't forget when you've decided which charges you're eligible to claim for, to try and understand contractual interest too as the snowball effect you experienced with your mounted debts are the same snowball effect they have put onto your account! Good luck!

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right, am ready to send my prelim letter asking for refunds to the sum of £697.74. Im not sure which address would be best to send it to, having read the list of contact addresses pinned at the top of this section. I was thinking send it FAO Tommy McLean, as this seems to be who most people end up dealing with at some point or other?

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

hi there

 

ive been intrigued by all of this i must it was my colleague at work who egged me on even though i read the independent each day who are running a similar campaign.

Im just another example of someone who went 1 or 3 pounds overdrawn and subjected me to horrible charges and then missed direct debits as well. I resorted to cancelling direct debits recently to avoid the dreaded charges are there issues about royalty gold accounts?

 

Richard:mad: :( :-?

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Stuart,

 

When I was at Uni I found that the RBS, Barclays were not very good at giving student overdrafts... However, Nat West and Lloyds threw money at you... When I went to vist friends at another Uni... they said the exact opposite...

 

Basically, whether a bank gives you an OD or not is usually down to the branch manager... Talk to your friends and find a local bank that does give overdrafts...

 

J

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I resorted to cancelling direct debits recently to avoid the dreaded charges are there issues about royalty gold accounts?

 

Hello,

 

If you are a Royalties Gold customer remember that there is a monthly membership fee for the extra benefits (travel ins & discounts on posh hotels, woohoo!) and as this is a valid fee you cannot reclaim it.

 

However, RBS have been sneaky and put the charge, which is currently £12/mth, together with a penalty charge. Try to find out which charge has been combined with the RG fee and deduct your RG fee from the charge to leave the penalty, mine appeared on my statements like this:

CHG TO (DATE) A/C 0014XXXX there is normally one interest one and two chg ones together on around the same date each month.

 

Make sure you let them know that you have gone out of your way not to claim the RG fee, even put them in bold print on the spreadsheet or asterix them if you are sending statements.

 

Hope this helps and good luck!

SM:p

Paying interest on a loan caused by penalty charges? Read this!!

 

Very useful A-Z here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/site-questions-suggestions/53182-cant-find-what-youre.html?highlight=can%27t+find+what+you%27re+looking+for%3F

 

New strategy for Scots claims here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/scotland/71013-urgent-attention-please-read.html

 

Scottish procedure:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/royal-bank-scotland/42620-scottish-procedure.html

I am a layperson not a legal expert, my advice is offered without prejudice or liability, it is purely my opinion based on personal experience and should be treated as such. If in any doubt seek the advice of a qualified professional.

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Well, got a letter from the bank the other day, just got home and opened it yesterday.

 

First page read basically as what i'd been expecting, trying to convince you that they are in the right etc, then the top of the second page...

"as a gesture of goodwill and without admission of liablity or error, in this instance we are prepared to offer the amount of £679.74 paid direct to your account"

 

I'd hoped for an offer, maybe a few hundred, but never expected them to offer the full amount - that is (to the penny) the amount i tried to claim. To be honest i was pretty worried about the whole idea of going to a court and setting legal proceedings going. Needless to say I signed the acceptance form and it's in the post, i know it will take a few days but who cares, i'm just over the moon that its done and ive got it in writing. It might look like a long time, seeing when I first started this thread, but the delay was purely down to distractions of my own, it took almost exactly one month from first letter to offer :o

 

I've scanned the letter and uploaded it (minus my address, the ref no, and the signature; think that's all that could cause any problems) if anyone considered it worth reading, i know its of no personal interest to nobody apart from me but if you're claiming from the rbs, it might be on its way to you! :D

Page 1

Page 2

 

Finally, got to say thanks for everyone's help, ive never posted much but i've spent a lot of time on here reading, both the advice given in this and in other threads, and theres nothing better than a success story to make you go and try for yourself. Also I fully believe that the letters i used, downloaded from this site, were crucial in helping my claim, as they are excellently worded and obviously have done the trick for me. I know a couple of friends are thinking about it and I will send anyone this way with no hesitation.

 

So, thank you very much! This should be the end of it for me, but im going to keep up following stuff on here, its interesting and makes a good read,

 

Cheers,

Stuart

 

(very happy :D:D:D:D)

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Congratulations Stuart!!!!

 

Remember don't sign their form stating full and final settlement..... but instead let them know that you're signing against full and final settlement of THIS claim only (as you may need to claim in the future).

 

Thanks!

 

The letter does use the words "full and final settlement" like you say, but it only ever refers to settlement of this complaint, and there was nothing else on the form that said it was anything more than settlement of this specific complaint.

 

Anyway, it's signed and in the post already :D And, touch wood, i never intend to be in a similar situation again!

 

Stuart

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Stu,

 

DId you claim for the 8% interest on top?

Disclaimer: Anything I write in these forums is my personal opinion and offered without prejudice. If in doubt, please seek independent legal advice.

 

TheDean Vs Telewest - 27/10 SB's big letter sent.

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Stu,

 

DId you claim for the 8% interest on top?

 

No I didn't. I figured that i'd have more chance of a decent settlement without asking for that as well, keep things simple i guess, plus as the amount I was claiming was quite small in the grand scheme of things I just left it out.

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  • 11 years later...

This topic was closed on 03/06/19.

If you have a problem which is similar to the issues raised in this topic, then please start a new thread and you will get help and support there.

If you would like to post up some information which is relevant to this particular topic then please flag the issue up to the site team and the thread will be reopened.

- Consumer Action Group

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