Welcome Finance Investigation

[Dipply75]

Subscribing and wishing you good luck - am pulling all my info together for my complaint with these gits.

 

I know the 'I really want to help you' best friend routine they use - smiling while ripping you off when you are desperate - you're not alone there ; )

 

Oh, and different company but about the extortionate credit thing - I got some junk mail in from Provident advertising loans at 183%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can they even say that, I mean, seriously????!!!!!

[Dipply75]

Hi Animal Lover, just read through the crap they sent you lol.

 

I am waiting on pretty much the same from them so have started digging - Direct Group ADMINISTER the insurances, they do not supply them.

 

They only do the 'admin' on these policies, I checked into their company details (companies house/Information Commissioner etc) and they do not and are not authorised to sell insurance.

 

So they are not your insurer - which that letter seems to imply to me. I would still demand to know who the actual insurer is....really annoy them

[Dipply75]

apologies, you did actually say that in your thread, am v blonde today lol.

 

They really are acting like they are hiding something as postggj says, certainly time for that official complaint, you have been more than reasonable so far.

 

Can I ask something - all those documents they mention, suitability and breakdown of figures etc. Did you actually sign these? Reason I ask is that in response to my OH CCA request they sent piles of stuff he had never seen before - all with his signature on.

[Dipply75]

Ooo, how interesting. Think we are starting to worry them?

 

What the 'former employee' was saying sounded more like a political soundbite, and certainly does not match up to the ACTUAL experiences of hundreds (or thousands?) of customers/victims up and down the country.

 

Norwich Union were listed as the insurer circa 2004 ish, after that a lot of contracts just say 'a reputable insurer'. I fail to understand how an employee, who was so heavily involved in all the areas of the business, right up to area manager level, can forget so quickly major details of the insurance side which accounts for a big chunk of their profits.

 

I also like the assertion that the company has covered its own back by putting staff through training - therefore if they do break the rules it is not the companies fault, just a rogue employee? Pmsl, very good.....Hey, we trained him so its then not our fault what he gets up to.

 

Oh, well, I am now so convinced the company are covered and could not be held responsible, I don't think I will continue my fight

[Dipply75]

I agree postggj - if genuine then all welcome and there would be nothing but the friendly attitude that everyone usually gets on here, but if formerWFS has a read through some of the threads they will understand the level of cynicism.

 

Yes, I am cynical, although funnily enough I never used to be. Companies like Welcome have changed me. I am, however, certainly not ignorant as you stated. Not at all. The great thing about this forum is that the discussions (good or bad) all provide information for everyone, and discussions can get heated! If I ever offended or said anything inappropriate I am happy to apologise, just post to say so and I can apologise/explain my post better or whatever - either way there is still a discussion going on that can throw up info that my be useful to someone.

 

There is nothing constructive about just leaving petty insults as comments. You should start a thread with your intentions etc and you will have plenty of questions, friendly hellos etc but you really should read some of the threads to understand what some folk have been put through.

 

Feel free to read mine, I would be genuinely interested in any opinions/advice/insights:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/payment-protection-insurance-ppi/131435-welcome-finance-missold-ppi.html

[Dipply75]

Wow. what an undignified rant and rave against complete strangers. Was your old username mr Middie by any chance! Apparently, if we didn't spend a few years learning all the ins and outs of of all the relevant acts/laws and regs on finance etc the second you left school then hell mend us?

 

Heard of the responsible lending code etc? Welcome are well aware that most folk are not aware of their rights and the laws and (especially going by your comments) think this is an excuse to make a lot of money taking advantage of this.

 

And everyone should have a well paid job and buy a house, or you are a drain on society - pmsl, very good...as that is entirely possible in our economy.......

 

And if there is a 'no loans at 2 addresses' policy for the reason you give - how could you possibly know the financial situation of everyone else living at the same address? Either check them out without consent - naughty....or you just assume if one person is approaching welcome they are obviously bad payers (arrogance), therefore everyone they live in the same property with are(arrogance and ignorance) - naughty......the whole rant has clarified completely the attitude welcome staff have towards their clients.

 

No wonder you got to area manager level with those views. I have said it once, I'll say it again - I sincerely hope life doesn't turn on you and you hit hard times as it will hit someone with such a judgmental attitude very hard indeed. Or maybe you would see some of the real world that about 80% of the country actually live in.

 

Going by the extreme tone of you post - are you just really annoyed that us poor folk are being 'ungrateful' and fighting back?

Edited July 28, 2008 by Dipply75
oopsed

[Dipply75]

I probably will (sorry!) but that was just so wrong. Was there any useful info to come out of all that for animal lover at all?

[Dipply75]

Hi Animal Lover, soso sorry you've been waiting all this time! I haven't been able to get on much lately but will have a look over those letters in the next half hour and see if I can help at all.

 

Be back....

[Dipply75]

Was thinking along the lines of this?

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I wish to make an official complaint about Welcome Financial Services and there failure to fully comply with my Subject Access Request dated the 27th June 2008.

 

I received a reply to my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request), dated the 2nd July 2008 which was incomplete. I sent a Non-Compliance letter on the 15th July 2008 which included a list of all the information missing which I required but their response was only a copy of the same information i received in my original request. Welcome Financial Services are now refusing to give me this information (add what reason they gave, if any). I require this information to support a complaint against Welcome Financial Services being lodged with the Financial Ombudsman Service and it is therefore my belief that Welcome are purposefully withholding this information.

 

I have enclosed copies of all correspondence/documentation, I hope this helps to resolve my complaint.

 

I would be grateful if you could investigate this non-compliance urgently but should you require any further details please do not hesitate to contact me. I look forward to your earliest response,

 

Yours faithfully

 

animal_lover

 

Added bits n bobs in that may help, its up to you if you want to mention Welcome holding back the info on purpose

 

I will have a look over the FOS letter but will be going over this thread first. You should have a read through if you are going to the FOS now, it should help you:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/136654-complaining-financial-ombudsman-service.html

 

Be back soon

Edited August 11, 2008 by Dipply75

[Dipply75]

Thats a thought postggj, I am sure a final response letter has been received so I take it they are trying to stall/obstruct the FOS complaint?

 

Animal lover, I think you should put your initial complaint into the FOS now and add in that there will be more info to follow (working on letter for you), say you cannot include this as Welcome are purposefully withholding it and a complaint has been made to the Information Commissioners Office.

 

Send the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) complaint letter to the Information Commissioners Office and send a copy to Welcome, with a covering letter stating :

 

As per the enclosed letter your non-compliance with my SAR and subsequent refusal to supply this information breaching my rights under the Data Protection Act, has now been reported to the Information Commissioner. The 40day period for my Subject Access Request expired on the . Therefore, if the missing information is not forthcoming in 7 days please supply a valid reason why each piece of information cannot be supplied.

 

See if that shifts them a bit lol

Edited August 11, 2008 by Dipply75
missed a bit

[Dipply75]

Am back

 

FOS letter.

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I wish to make a complaint about Welcome Financial Services regarding the mis-selling of Payment Protection Insurance which was added to my unsecured personal loan (ref no XXXXXX). I was unaware that PPI was added to my loan agreement at the time of signing. It has only become apparent to me after the recent coverage by the media, and following the recent OFT and FSA investigations regarding the mis-selling of ppi by finance companies. This is when I decided to check my loan with Welcome Finance and was shocked to discover I had bought an extremely expensive and useless policy, without my knowledge or consent.

 

I took out the loan in November 2006 at the Cholton, Manchester branch number 072. I was initially advised I could only borrow half of the amount I applied for. The salesperson even stated that 'she wasn't allowed to' but she really wanted to "help" me. This was the same person who completed my loan application. This raises serious concerns as if I was apparently borrowing to the limit (or possibly past) of my means, how was I able then to take credit for such an expensive policy. The other option is that the salesperson misled me into believing I could only borrow half the amount applied for so I would have enough 'credit' left to accomodate the PPI.

 

During the whole process there was no mention of Payment Protection Insurance. All the figures quoted to me were, as far as I was aware, just the loan figure as no Insurances were discussed, offered or seperate breakdowns given. The loan actually had PPI included but was never offered and therefore without my consent. I have also never received any documentation regarding my policy nor any information about who holds my policy, either at the time or afterwards.

 

I must also point out this is still the case despite a full SAR being made on , a non compliance letter sent on and now a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office as Welcome now refuse to supply me with this basic information. I can therefore only assume that Welcome's intention is to delay and/or obstruct this complaint.

 

I believe this policy was mis-sold because:

 

1- Welcome Financial Services added Payment Protection Insurance to my loan without my knowledge or consent.

2- Welcome have never supplied any documention regarding my policy or who it is with, despite a full SAR and numerous requests. I was also therefore unaware of any cancellation rights I may have had or of the policies suitability.

3- Medical History - If they had asked me about any exsisting medical conditions they would of known that xxxxx,xxxxx and xxxxx would of made any claim invalid.

4- was never given the opportunity or enough time to read and check the documents. I was simply told where to sign.

5- All dates and and printed versions of my name are not my handwriting and I believe this is a fraudulent attempt to prove I accepted this PPI.

6- when taking out the loan I was advised the APR was a lot lower than is stated on my Credit Agreement.

7-The PPI was added automatically therefore I wasn't even given the option of finding a cheaper insurance elsewhere.

8 - I understand under the Consumer Credit Acts and following a House of Lords judgment, that it is not allowed to make a loan conditional on taking PPI unless you include the costs of PPI as part of the charge for credit and not the credit itself. Welcome added the PPI to the total for credit and then charged me further interest on the premium on top of the interest for the loan.

 

I have also included the full and final response I have received from Welcome Financial Services in respect of my complaint.

 

I hope this information is enough to investigate and resolve my complaint but should you require any further information please do now hesitate to contact me. I look forward to your earliest response

 

Yours faithfully

 

animal _lover

 

How does that read to you? No 8 on the letter I took from a letter Hellhasnofury used in a case which he eventually won (thankyou HHNF!). Up to you if you want to include this, I will be asking more about this little gem as it will help my fight to, I want to understand more about this.

 

Leme know if its not what you had in mind though! I tend to geet a bit carried away

[Dipply75]

I see what you mean lol. I suppose you can only put welcomes name in and you could put broker in brackets after it maybe for the the contact you have made and details etc

 

For policy number/insurer you could just put unknown. That is about as accurate as you can be really. I could not write letters for going into a great big story at first lol, but you pick up so much from the help on here, you'll be doing letters for others in no time, you'll see!

 

just glad we can help : )

[Dipply75]

also the Insurance Premium Tax (IPT). Every single premium policy sold has this insurnace premium tax that the insurer has to pay the tax man.

 

We need to be asking how much of your premium was IPT and who paid the tax man his tax - Welcome or (apparently) the insurer?

 

If Welcome are selling single premium insurance premiums and no actual policies are being opened with Norwich - IS and HOW is the tax man getting his money? For Norwich to be paying the tax man - Welcome would have to pay Norwich for the policy first. Are Welcome are paying the taxman direct?

 

I really must update my Welcome thread - there has been so much to type, with so little time lol. They are idiots.

[Dipply75]

I have included this in my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to Welcome - so that if they cannot/will not provide the info the Information Commissioners Office can have a look see. If they have to admit to the Information Commissioners Office they do not have this info then we have proof certain transactions did not take place. ie opening an actual policy, paying the IPT on that policy premium etc.

 

-Full copies or transcripts of any correspondence in postal, email or any other format which you have entered into with any individual, organization or third party which contains my personal or financial, or which pertains to me, including correspondence to the underwriter of any insurance policies and details of the relevant Insurance Premium Tax (IPT) payable on any single premium policies. Please ensure this includes how much tax was payable, who payment was made to and the date of this payment.

Edited October 7, 2008 by Dipply75
forgot most of it!

[Dipply75]

Hi animal lover, sorry for the absence, had some troubles, of the kind that even CAG could not help with unfortunately - but am back!

 

Ref the letter to Global, that sounds fine - short and to the point as that is really all they need to know - be sure to use the words 'in dispute'.

 

As for Welcome and this Insurance Premium Tax, I think it could be worth writing to their compliance dept and simply asking them for the following:

 

The name of the Insurance company the policy is held with

How much was paid in Insurance Premium Tax

Did Welcome pay this tax or the Insurer

As a member of the Finance and Leasing Assoc - who is your Code Compliance Officer

When was you last annual statement of compliance submitted to the FLA

 

These are all very specific, simple questions that they can either answer with a simple fact or they can't. I have the bare bones of a letter put together with all this in it and will finish it today and post it here.

 

I will start chipping away at them with this also. My complaint is in, which I will have to update my thread with at some point this century!

 

After the few weeks I've just had, I could chew Welcome out and spit them out - the big boots are back on and am ready for the fight .

You reading this welcome? I have fought bigger than you, and I am the original dog with a bone.

 

Apart from that, how are you getting on Animal Lover, things anymore settled?

 

Again, sorry for vanishing in the middle of all you were going through, it was so rude.

 

Dipply x

[Dipply75]

Hiya

 

Still luv ya , still worried about you too

 

Listen, as far as work goes, I totally understand. It cheeses you off no end but its being able to fight them just now. You have to do whatever is best for your health. If that means just closing the door on the whole episode and getting on with your life (I did it), then so be it.

 

I won't lie to you though - down the line when you feel stronger it will bug you no end that they got away with it all - but it's easy to get stroppy when you are fit enought to be stroppy lol

 

Just keep letting us know how you get on

 

As for Welcome........I thought short and sweet. Point out the facts and ask for simple facts in return:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I understand Welcome Finance is a member of the Finance and Leasing Association and you subscribe to their codes of practice which states:

3.2 Before you take out payment protection insurance,

or at the time you take it out, we will give you

the following information to help you to decide

if the policy is suitable for you.

◗ The name of the insurer.

◗ A summary of cover, which will explain what

the product is, the cost, and the key benefits,

exclusions and eligibility criteria (conditions).

◗ The term of your insurance cover.

◗ Any qualifying periods or excess payments or

periods needed before you can make a claim.

◗ How to make a claim and who to contact if

you make a claim that is disputed.

◗ If and when you may cancel your insurance

policy, and what action you need to take to

do this.

This information will help to explain if the policy

is suitable for you if you are self-employed, on

contract or part-time work, or if you have a medical

condition that you had been diagnosed with

before you took out this insurance.

Documentation

3.3 Once you have taken out insurance, we will give

you a copy of your policy or certificate of

insurance within 21 days, with a contact phone

number for any questions you may have.

Regarding the PPI policy you have advised you opened in my name for loan agreement number XXXXXXXX, there are a number of details which I have yet to be advised of, despite requesting this information several time. I would therefore be grateful if you could answer the following questions, with obvious regard to your membership listed above:

The name of the Insurance company the policy is held with

How much of my Insurance Premium paid directly to the Insurer (exact figure)

How much was paid in Insurance Premium Tax

Did Welcome pay this tax or the Insurer

As a member of the Finance and Leasing Assoc - who is your Code Compliance Officer

When was you last annual statement of compliance submitted to the FLA

Should you be unable to provide answers to these basic questions, please confirm this in writing with your reasons. I look forward to your earliest response,

Yours sincerely

your pain in the hoo ha (hee hee)

What do you think?

 

 

[Dipply75]

Interesting postggj. will have a dig about, I need to understand more about front loading etc.

 

If it was all done in house (allegedly), the direct group/welcome thing would be a very convincing paper smokescreen. Either way - each policy had to have been underwritten by someone, which there must be a papertrail for. If there is nothing to hide then why can't we get basic info from a simple ppi policy?

 

If they were not underwritten? Big trouble.

[Dipply75]

Hi pears23, thankyou, helpful info as it seems that agreements up to around 2005 stated clearly Norwich Union on the agreements as the insurer - after that the wording changed to "a reputable insurer". My older agreement (2003) listed Norwich Union, my partners in 2006 was the vague reputable insurer. Can you tell me if this was just on the back of the agreement or did you have an actual 'key facts' document? I have read you are supposed to get these but have no idea when this started!

 

Hey mcfadwmc - firstly, hats off to you for taking them on. I take it you had one of those judges that would believe any crap put in front of them? I am so sorry you lost, from what I read it was a ridiculous decision. Fergal is right, the OFT and the FOS need to pull the finger out.

 

I can't believe there aren't enough complaints logged not to arouse any suspicions so far. I know I am due a refund but I would much rather see them properly investigated and see the truth come out.

[Dipply75]

Hi Animal lover, thought you had got bored of us lol. Very strange that phone call....what was all that about? Can you post the Global letter on here? Folk on here are getting good at spotting companies standard threatograms as opposed to real threats.

 

There are some strange happenings going on to a few of us with the same type of complaints in against them...check out the recent posts on this link:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/37780-welcome-finance-any-dealings-51.html

 

Think yours is connected too?

Edited November 13, 2008 by Dipply75
forgot to add the link - sigh

[Dipply75]

Oh pears23, (eyebrows raised!) I got all excited when I read your post (sad, I know lol)....is there anyway you could post a copy of leaflet on here for us to see?

 

I am dying to see what their version of a keyfacts leaflet looks like, it may be very useful indeed!

[Dipply75]

Hi formerwfsemployee

 

i know it was a while ago, but can you remember if Welcome took responsibility for the IPT levied on the single premium policies and paid it, or did you just pass the premium to the insurer and let them take care of that?

[Dipply75]

Or only pops in to throw the odd random insult lol

[Dipply75]

Hi Martin2006

 

They are experts at taking advantage of people, for huge profit. When you visit a branch everything is done in a tiny private room, all verbally, with high pressure selling techniques, lies and even forgery.

 

No application forms are filled in, you just have a 'chat' where they seem all concerned, lovely people. Welcome know that when someone approaches them, they need the money and this is where folk are really taken advantage of - me included. This chat is to figure out how desperate/vulnerable you are. They new the tax credits messed up my claim and I was desperate for money to pay childcare - she then knew she could get away with murder with me. tactics include:

 

Taking all your details verbally - they then go into another room and enter all your details into the system. Many have discovered total lies were entered to approve huge borrowing they would not have got.

 

No application forms, so no proof.

 

When the salesperson returns with the agreement already filled in or completes it in front of you, the cheque is placed on the table in front of you. They only tell you how much you can borrow and what your monthly payment is and focus on the affordability of that payment. Unless you know ask nothing else will be explained to you.

 

If you DO ask there are various tactics - 'you won't get money anywhere else, the rate is so high because of the risk (65%??), the system decides the figures nothing I can do, if you don't miss payments we can re-negotiate a cheaper deal later in the loan, just phone me (thats a cracker) - all while holding the cheque in front of your face.

 

The agreement, which has not been discussed at all, is slid across the desk and you are asked to sign 'here and here' - while they still hold the top of it (in my case she actually covered all the figures at the top with her hand as well)

 

If you spot the PPI added you are told 'no ppi, no loan', it is company policy etc, again while holding that cheque in front of you. No health related questions, nothing about paying interest on the premium, no discussion at all except 'sign here'.

 

Once you have signed? they will mark your credit file, even if yo uhaven't missed a payment, which keeps you going back to them. Miss a payment (even by a few days) and there are letters and calls, charging you for each. Mysterious charges are levied, sometimes hundreds of pounds. They will visit your house over and over and charge you each time - knowing people think they have no choice in this "you signed a contract, thats it" crap.

 

And the PPI - the high premiums are taken, but no-one can every find any trace of an actual policy being opened anywhere, underwritten by anyone. They even refuse to tell you who your insurer apparently is! Hmmm, suspicious

 

They cannot wait to get you to re-finance and arrears are the biggest doorway to that.

 

Prime example - I knew of one couple, in their late 60's, who had unsecured borrowing and owed about £8-10K. Illness struck, got into arrears and they went to the branch to ask for help. They were warned they could be made bankrupt, lose their home, not much could be done except re-financing the loan which would have to be secured. This would require PPI, every other type of insurance welcome sold 'for protection', fees for the arranging the security blah blah. They were advised basically that this was their only option and by the time they left they had borrowed £26000. By the time they will have paid it off in about 15 years, they will have paid over £75000 for an £8-10K debt. Probably paying that for the rest of their days. I still feel sick every time I think about that.

 

I have always worried about that couple and hope they managed to fight that and get away from them.....but that is a PRIME example - not a one off.

 

Sorry for the novel, but they really get me going

Edited November 14, 2008 by Dipply75
more disgusted ranting!

[Dipply75]

Yup:D Investigate what exactly lol...they are simple enough questions asking for basic facts about your insurance policy and their membership to the FLA.

 

Maybe its all locked in that big filing cabinet called "stuff no-one will ever know to ask"?

 

Well, since my old agreement listed Norwich Union as the insurer - letter going off to them to complain about my policy, their involvement with the likes of Welcome, the blatant abuse going on in NU's name that they should be aware of and that they should reconsider authorising them in future etc.

 

Lets see what response that brings

[Dipply75]

I am in awe! You not only got a cheque from welcome but in a week?!

 

Was the cheque a refund of your PPI and was it from Welcome, Direct Group or somewhere else?