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    • Makers of insect-based animal feed hope to be able to compete with soybeans on price.View the full article
    • Thank you for posting up the results from the sar. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. Under Section 9 [2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking time. the photographs show your car in motion both entering and leaving the car park thus not parking. If you have to do a Witness Statement later should they finally take you to Court you will have to continue to state that even though you stayed there for several hours in a small car park and the difference between the ANPR times and the actual parking period may only be a matter of a few minutes  nevertheless the CEL have failed to comply with the Act by failing to specify the parking period. However it looks as if your appeal revealed you were the driver the deficient PCN will not help you as the driver. I suspect that it may have been an appeal from the pub that meant that CEL offered you partly a way out  by allowing you to claim you had made an error in registering your vehicle reg. number . This enabled them to reduce the charge to £20 despite them acknowledging that you hadn't registered at all. We have not seen the signs in the car park yet so we do not what is said on them and all the signs say the same thing. It would be unusual for a pub to have  a Permit Holders Only sign which may discourage casual motorists from stopping there. But if that is the sign then as it prohibits any one who doesn't have a permit, then it cannot form a contract with motorists though it may depend on how the signs are worded.
    • Defence and Counterclaim Claim number XXX Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited Defendant XXXXXXXXXXXXX   How much of the claim do you dispute? I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.   Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it? No, for other reasons.   Defence 1. The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXX  2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 5. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 6. In a further abuse of the legal process the Claimant is claiming £50 legal representative's costs, even though they have no legal representative. 7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Signed I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true XXXXXXXXXXX 01/05/2024   Defendant's date of birth XXXXXXXXXX   Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you  
    • pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform. [if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] . When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’.  Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time.  You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word. You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID.  You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.<<**IMPORTANT**  then log in to the bulk court Website .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform . defend all leave jurisdiction unticked  you DO NOT file a defence at this time [BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ] click thru to the end confirm and exit the website .get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim type your name ONLY no need to sign anything .you DO NOT await the return of paperwork. you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.
    • well post it here as a text in a the msg reply half of it is blanked out. dx  
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Dragon v Abbey***WON***


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Filed my AQ a couple of weeks ago, and have received a letter from the County Court which reads as follows.....

 

DEPUTY DISTRICT JUDGE LEACH orders that this claim is stayed until 02 April 2007 to enable the parties to attempt settlement.

 

On or before 16 April 2007, one of the following steps must be taken:

either

the claimant must notify the court that the whole of the claim has been settled; (see note (i)below)

or

the claimant or defendant must write to the court requesting an extension of the stay period, explaining the steps being taken towards settlement and identifying any mediator, expert, or other person helping with the process. The letter should confirm the agreement of all other parties. (see note (ii) below)

or

all the parties must file a completed allocation questionnaire at the court. Where a settlement of some of the issues in dispute has been reached, a list of those should be attached to the completed questionnaire. The list must be agreed with the other parties and must indicate that it has been agreed.

 

Date 05 March 2007

 

Note (i): Where settlement of the claim is achieved before the end of the period of stay the following will be taken to include an application for the stay to be lifted:

(a) an application for a consent order to give effect to the settlement

(b) an application for approval of a settlement where one or more of the parties is a person under a disability: and

© the filing of a notice of acceptance of monies paid into court, or an application to accept monies paid into court out of time.

Note (ii): Extensions to the period of stay will generally be no more than one month

 

Obviously I didn't apply for the stay so it must have been Abbey on their AQ.

As such am I to assume that the onus now lies with them to contact me before 2nd April to "enable the parties to attempt settlement"?

 

I think the likelyhood is that they won't and I will have to submit another AQ on the 3rd April.

 

Has anyone else been hit with this delaying tactic, the Court Clerk (very helpful) tells me this is something new to him and I can't find a similar scenario in the forum.

 

Any assistance appreciated.

Dragon

 

:)

 

Abbey

S.A.R. - March 06

Settled in full £2300 - May 07

 

Abbey2

RFP - 13 June 07

N1 Filed- 20 July 07

Stayed - 07 Sep 07

 

Capital 1

S.A.R. - 25 June 07

Statements recieved - 29 June 07

RFP (with CCI) - 10 July 07

LBA (with CCI) - 30 July 07

N1 Filed (with CCI) - 19 Sep 07

Offer recieved (8% not CCI @ 34.9%) 28 Sep 07

Defence Filed (on basis that claim settled) 02 Oct 07

Cheque recieved and banked 16 Oct 07

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Will do Paul

 

Dave

Dragon

 

:)

 

Abbey

S.A.R. - March 06

Settled in full £2300 - May 07

 

Abbey2

RFP - 13 June 07

N1 Filed- 20 July 07

Stayed - 07 Sep 07

 

Capital 1

S.A.R. - 25 June 07

Statements recieved - 29 June 07

RFP (with CCI) - 10 July 07

LBA (with CCI) - 30 July 07

N1 Filed (with CCI) - 19 Sep 07

Offer recieved (8% not CCI @ 34.9%) 28 Sep 07

Defence Filed (on basis that claim settled) 02 Oct 07

Cheque recieved and banked 16 Oct 07

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I've had a brows through the forum and (with great help from Tink) composed the following.....

 

Dear Sirs

 

******** –V- ABBEY NATIONAL PLC

CLAIM NO: ********

 

You will be aware that on the 5th March 2007, Judge Leach of Doncaster County Court ordered a stay for settlement in the above claim until 2nd April 2007 to enable the parties to attempt settlement.

In accordance with the Judges request I again make an attempt to bring this matter to a close. However, I must point out that in my opinion I have already given ample time and opportunity to you to resolve this affair, which was initiated by me by letter on 06th July 2006.

 

Not withstanding your continuing to debit my account with automated charges since submission of this claim to the County Court, I am willing to reduce my claim, as calculated below:

 

£1188.00 + Total amount of charges

£304.54 + 8% Interest on charges, as per s.69 of the County Court Act

£133.20 + Interest on penalties

£16.11 + 8% Interest on interest on penalties, as per s.69 of the County Court Act

£120.00 + Court fee

£100.00 + Allocation Questionnaire Fee

--------------

£1861.85

£61.85 - Gesture of goodwill on my part

--------------

£1800.00

========

 

I believe that my offer to reduce the amount of my claim to £1800.00 is a fair and reasonable attempt at settlement and does not overly compromise either party.

 

I look forward to hearing from you before the Judges deadline of 2nd April 2007.

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

I've tried to be direct but polite. I also wanted to demonstrate to the Judge that even though Abbey continue to charge me I am still willing to compromise. Any thoughts??

Dragon

 

:)

 

Abbey

S.A.R. - March 06

Settled in full £2300 - May 07

 

Abbey2

RFP - 13 June 07

N1 Filed- 20 July 07

Stayed - 07 Sep 07

 

Capital 1

S.A.R. - 25 June 07

Statements recieved - 29 June 07

RFP (with CCI) - 10 July 07

LBA (with CCI) - 30 July 07

N1 Filed (with CCI) - 19 Sep 07

Offer recieved (8% not CCI @ 34.9%) 28 Sep 07

Defence Filed (on basis that claim settled) 02 Oct 07

Cheque recieved and banked 16 Oct 07

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According to the book small claims procedure a practical guide the one advertised on here it reads:-

 

The parties should have tried to settle before starting the case but, if there is still scope for discussion, there is one last chance to put the case on hold, or "stay" the proceedings. This is not an excuse for not completing and returning the allocation fee.

 

If all parties request a stay the District Judge will direct that the proceedings are stayed for one month (rule 26.4(2)).

 

The District Judge can allow the stay to continue for more than one month but there must be a good reason, and the stay will be for a defined period of time only (rule 26.4(3)).

 

The court must be told if the case settles during the period of "stay".

 

At the end of the stay the District Judge will review the file and give direction (rule 26.4(5)).

 

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Hi,

Looks good and uve tried to comprimise and thats all u can do.

I havent heard anything back from Abbey yet regarding my own letter so I have no idea whether it will work or not.

But at least now uve opened the lines of communication.

 

Tink x.x.x

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mariejader,

If all parties request a stay Maybe someone can look at this statement
Just in case you were tempted, I remember reading a couple of threads ages ago (so no chance of finding them !) where seeking removal of a stay had backfired - not spectacularly, but it had ended causing more problems and delays than had they just gone along with it. And particularly so in this case when it's the Judge effectively telling Abbey to settle this before it comes to back to him or else. Regards, Mad Nick

Abbey £8370 settled 17 Apr 07

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FWIW

 

I would apply for the stay to be removed, i dont know the case nick mentons i know of several where the stay has been lifted and one only lasty week using the link above.

 

Ill see if i can find it.

 

Glenn

Kick the shAbbey Habit

 

Where were you? Next time please

 

 

Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless

Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07

Barclaycard - Settled cheque received

Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07

Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07

GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty

MBNA - Settled in Full

GE Capital (1st National) Settled

Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07

MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here

Glenn Vs MBNA

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Thanks for your thoughts guys, plenty to think about.

 

It is clear that the Judge imposed the stay and as such I am going to leave it in place and see what happens up to the deadline. I reckon the Judge might not be receptive to having his judgement to impose a stay challenged, and the last thing I would want to do is antagonise him. The Judge has sussed that Abbey will settle very shortly (probably by defaulting later in the process) and he's giving them a nudge to return my money. Looks like I'm turning into the home straight now.....

Dragon

 

:)

 

Abbey

S.A.R. - March 06

Settled in full £2300 - May 07

 

Abbey2

RFP - 13 June 07

N1 Filed- 20 July 07

Stayed - 07 Sep 07

 

Capital 1

S.A.R. - 25 June 07

Statements recieved - 29 June 07

RFP (with CCI) - 10 July 07

LBA (with CCI) - 30 July 07

N1 Filed (with CCI) - 19 Sep 07

Offer recieved (8% not CCI @ 34.9%) 28 Sep 07

Defence Filed (on basis that claim settled) 02 Oct 07

Cheque recieved and banked 16 Oct 07

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a prediction, abbey will not settle or contact you until after the months stay if at all

 

Be interesting to see who's right.

 

Glenn

Kick the shAbbey Habit

 

Where were you? Next time please

 

 

Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless

Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07

Barclaycard - Settled cheque received

Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07

Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07

GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty

MBNA - Settled in Full

GE Capital (1st National) Settled

Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07

MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here

Glenn Vs MBNA

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Your prediction could very well be on the mark Glenn, I will not be suprised either if Abbey do nothing and we move to the next stage. I think this would be to my advantage because by making an offer to reduce the claim I have reacted to the Judges instruction to attempt settlement, by doing nothing Abbey will be seen by the Judge as being obstructive.

A waiting game now.......

Dragon

 

:)

 

Abbey

S.A.R. - March 06

Settled in full £2300 - May 07

 

Abbey2

RFP - 13 June 07

N1 Filed- 20 July 07

Stayed - 07 Sep 07

 

Capital 1

S.A.R. - 25 June 07

Statements recieved - 29 June 07

RFP (with CCI) - 10 July 07

LBA (with CCI) - 30 July 07

N1 Filed (with CCI) - 19 Sep 07

Offer recieved (8% not CCI @ 34.9%) 28 Sep 07

Defence Filed (on basis that claim settled) 02 Oct 07

Cheque recieved and banked 16 Oct 07

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What individuals do is obviously a matter for them, however, it is worth pointing out that if the claimant follows the suggested route and timetable from this forum they have demonstrated their reasonableness already.

 

The application of the stay only benefits the defendant to the detriment of the claimant.

 

They, the banks that is, get sufficient time to enter into some negotiations before the claimant files.

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

Kick the shAbbey Habit

 

Where were you? Next time please

 

 

Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless

Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07

Barclaycard - Settled cheque received

Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07

Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07

GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty

MBNA - Settled in Full

GE Capital (1st National) Settled

Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07

MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here

Glenn Vs MBNA

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Noted Glenn, thanks for your advice.

Dragon

 

:)

 

Abbey

S.A.R. - March 06

Settled in full £2300 - May 07

 

Abbey2

RFP - 13 June 07

N1 Filed- 20 July 07

Stayed - 07 Sep 07

 

Capital 1

S.A.R. - 25 June 07

Statements recieved - 29 June 07

RFP (with CCI) - 10 July 07

LBA (with CCI) - 30 July 07

N1 Filed (with CCI) - 19 Sep 07

Offer recieved (8% not CCI @ 34.9%) 28 Sep 07

Defence Filed (on basis that claim settled) 02 Oct 07

Cheque recieved and banked 16 Oct 07

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  • 2 weeks later...

Not surprisingly the deadline for Abbey to enter negotiation has passed without a word. So I've had to fill in another Allocation Questionnaire (Given the N150 to complete by CC enquiries desk) so that's another £100 to add. On this form the first question asks "Have you sent a copy of this completed form to the other party(ies)? Yes / No". Can anyone give me some direction on this, because it's not covered in the completion guide section of the templates library. Also, if the correct protocol is for the AQ to be copied into Abbey, is there a template letter to be used? Apologies in advance if my question is easily answered and I'm just being a bit dim.

Dragon

 

:)

 

Abbey

S.A.R. - March 06

Settled in full £2300 - May 07

 

Abbey2

RFP - 13 June 07

N1 Filed- 20 July 07

Stayed - 07 Sep 07

 

Capital 1

S.A.R. - 25 June 07

Statements recieved - 29 June 07

RFP (with CCI) - 10 July 07

LBA (with CCI) - 30 July 07

N1 Filed (with CCI) - 19 Sep 07

Offer recieved (8% not CCI @ 34.9%) 28 Sep 07

Defence Filed (on basis that claim settled) 02 Oct 07

Cheque recieved and banked 16 Oct 07

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Not sure about this one mate, but tbh I'd just send abbey a copy. Why not let em know what's coming their way now they've &%*%)ed you (and the courts) about yet again? Just draft a letter saying basically "you've failed to enter into any negotiation, you've had your chance, therefore I am proceeding with my court action as per this AQ".

 

On a different note, I've swiped yours & Tink's excellent letter above, as my claim has also been stayed. Sent it off Friday, so will be interested to see if I get the same (lack of) response as you...

 

When I rang the court, the guy on the phone said that judges are starting to stay cases off their own back, as my court at least is now listing about 10 bank charge cases a week & is starting to get snowed under!! So it may actually be nothing to do with Abbey.

April 2007: Claim v Abbey settled £680!

July 2007: Claim 2 for £307 WON! after quiet word from the bailiff!!

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I have sent my second AQ to Abbey along with this letter.....

 

Dear Sirs

 

********–V- ABBEY NATIONAL PLC

CLAIM NO: *******

 

On the 5th March 2007, Judge Leach of Doncaster County Court ordered a stay for settlement in the above claim until 2nd April 2007 to enable the parties to attempt settlement.

In accordance with the Judges request on 13th March 2007 I sent you details (via recorded delivery) of how I proposed to bring this matter to a close by putting forward a reduced settlement offer of £1800. Not surprisingly you have failed to respond to my settlement offer, leaving me no option to continue proceedings through the Court.

 

Attached is a copy of the allocation questionnaire resubmitted to support my claim and a schedule setting out each charge repayment of which is sought. I also claim associated costs incurred in pursuit of my claim, as summarised below.

 

£1188.00 + Total amount of charges

£309.75 + 8% Interest on charges, as per s.69 of the County Court Act

£147.16 + Interest on penalties

£17.02 + 8% Interest on interest on penalties, as per s.69 of the County Court Act

£120.00 + Court fee

£100.00 + Allocation Questionnaire Fee

£100.00 + 2nd Allocation Questionnaire Fee

--------------

£1981.93

========

 

Please note that I remain committed to resolving this matter quickly and without further inconvenience and cost to both parties. I can be contacted at any reasonable time on ***********.

 

Yours faithfully

 

We will see where this gets us......

Dragon

 

:)

 

Abbey

S.A.R. - March 06

Settled in full £2300 - May 07

 

Abbey2

RFP - 13 June 07

N1 Filed- 20 July 07

Stayed - 07 Sep 07

 

Capital 1

S.A.R. - 25 June 07

Statements recieved - 29 June 07

RFP (with CCI) - 10 July 07

LBA (with CCI) - 30 July 07

N1 Filed (with CCI) - 19 Sep 07

Offer recieved (8% not CCI @ 34.9%) 28 Sep 07

Defence Filed (on basis that claim settled) 02 Oct 07

Cheque recieved and banked 16 Oct 07

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hey Dragon,

Did u send yourletters directly to james Arrandale?

I sent him my letters and emailed him as well and requested a read recipt and a delivery recipt.It may be worth emailing him letting him know that uve had to file a second allocation questionnaire and would he be prepared to discuss settlement as its costing them more.

 

Tink x.x.x

 

p.s - once u have a figure in mind stick to it and dont let him barter u dwn. I sed 1550 and stuck to it and he caved. good luck.

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Hi Tink

 

I didn't send these to Mr Arrandale because I haven't had any direct interface with him or any individual within Abbey, all my letters have gone to the same place (Location Code TS6B03 2 Triton Square etc....). Also I've never had any direct e-mails or telephone calls from Abbey regarding this matter. In one of their standard fob off letters they asked for contact details but they have kept things very formal which to be honest has suited me up to now.

 

This latest delay was not unexpected but has really peed me off, I'm short of another £100 this month and have had to fork out £320 so far, I know it will be refunded but I'm on a tight budget and can little afford to be out of pocket by so much. So I won't be negotiating now, I'm in for the lot. Rant....rant....rant......lol

 

Dragon:D

Dragon

 

:)

 

Abbey

S.A.R. - March 06

Settled in full £2300 - May 07

 

Abbey2

RFP - 13 June 07

N1 Filed- 20 July 07

Stayed - 07 Sep 07

 

Capital 1

S.A.R. - 25 June 07

Statements recieved - 29 June 07

RFP (with CCI) - 10 July 07

LBA (with CCI) - 30 July 07

N1 Filed (with CCI) - 19 Sep 07

Offer recieved (8% not CCI @ 34.9%) 28 Sep 07

Defence Filed (on basis that claim settled) 02 Oct 07

Cheque recieved and banked 16 Oct 07

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Right ok,

I understand y ur peed of, theyre really taking the mik. When I got abbeys defence letter it was from James which is why i sent everything from then on to him.It was also to the location code u mentioned.

Ill be keeping an eye on this thread to see what happens next.

 

Tink x.x.x

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