Egg credit card agreement terminated

[toymaker1]

I did write to Egg .....saying the termination contravened s87/88 and was laible to remedies in 140B etc. (Heard nothing).

 

There you are. - If you havent heard, I gues it means you're not paying, same as me. I havent heard from them since January 2009, and I stopped my £300 D/D in March 2008.

 

regards

Edited April 16, 2009 by toymaker1
wrong number!

[KingNev]

How all I have just completed reading this fascinating thread!! I am one of the "160,000" my card was terminated some time in 2008. I am about to send egg the following;

 

Dear Sir or Madam

Re: Ending by Egg of my Egg credit card facility.

Thank you for your letter dated xx XXXXXXX 2008.

As you are aware, both my Egg credit card facility and the actions of Egg as the creditor in respect of that credit card facility are regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Therefore, in order that I can provide a fully informed response to the points raised by Egg in it's letter to me dated xx XXXXXXX 2008, I would be grateful if Egg would indicate to me the relevant section of the Act which provides Egg with legal entitlement to end my Egg credit card facility.

In the meantime, I will suspend all payments to Egg out of my account xxxxxxxxxxxx until such time as this matter is resolved, as it would appear that Egg has breached the Egg card agreement made between Egg and myself.

I would be grateful for a prompt response to this letter, in order that the matter can be speedily resolved and my monthly payments to Egg resumed without interruption.

Yours etc.

If I understand egg SOP their next move would be to default me and sell my debt on the a CRA, and I then fend off said CRA's/solicitors accordingly? What I would like to ask is has anyone gone down this route and managed to avoid a default??

[toymaker1]

How all I have just completed reading this fascinating thread!! I am one of the "160,000" my card was terminated some time in 2008. I am about to send egg the following;

 

Dear Sir or Madam

Re: Ending by Egg of my Egg credit card facility.

Thank you for your letter dated xx XXXXXXX 2008.

As you are aware, both my Egg credit card facility and the actions of Egg as the creditor in respect of that credit card facility are regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Therefore, in order that I can provide a fully informed response to the points raised by Egg in it's letter to me dated xx XXXXXXX 2008, I would be grateful if Egg would indicate to me the relevant section of the Act which provides Egg with legal entitlement to end my Egg credit card facility.

In the meantime, I will suspend all payments to Egg out of my account xxxxxxxxxxxx until such time as this matter is resolved, as it would appear that Egg has breached the Egg card agreement made between Egg and myself.

I would be grateful for a prompt response to this letter, in order that the matter can be speedily resolved and my monthly payments to Egg resumed without interruption.

Yours etc.

If I understand egg SOP their next move would be to default me and sell my debt on the a CRA, and I then fend off said CRA's/solicitors accordingly? What I would like to ask is has anyone gone down this route and managed to avoid a default??

 

That is, in essence, the same as the letter/s I have written to Egg.

I have had 14 months of huffing and puffing and threats from numerous DCA's acting on behalf of Egg. So far I have not paid them a penny since I stopped my D/D in March 2008. The ball is in Egg's court - it is up to them if they wish to go in front of a judge and explain (with a straight face) what they did. I would love to see them asking the judge, "please sir, can we have our money back?"

[KingNev]

Toymaker1 its great to hear they are essentially impotent. I just wondered if it was possible to challenge them on this and avoid the default notice somehow??

[toymaker1]

Toymaker1 its great to hear they are essentially impotent. I just wondered if it was possible to challenge them on this and avoid the default notice somehow??

 

I can only tell you what I have done myself. I am challenging them by openly refusing to pay them a penny, and I have asked them to explain to me the legal source of their right to terminate my credit card agreement.

My experience has been that all of the credit card companies are liable to dish out default notices at the drop of a hat, so I find there is no point getting worried by default notices. If you are in the right, then all their default notices and letters from solicitors are merely hot air and huffing and puffing. Of course, you need to carefully check the legal situation. i.e study CCA 1974 very closely.

[ftd]

The more I delve into the 'facinating' CCA I find more reason to bolster my opinion (and potential defences) that Egg terminated the agreements when they did (before April 2008 when the new regs came into effect for pre 2007 agreements) because they were 'scared stiff' of what a judge 'may' order them to do in court (this makes great reading elsewhere on this forum).

If an agreement was ended before the changes came into effect then they are 'relatively' safe, but at best/worst (depending how you look at it) it leaves the debt in a state of limbo!

 

There's another angle:

Do we take the 'termination letter' to be a default notice? If so, then the notice was not in the correct format, and after an agreement has been terminated, under the new regs, a second 'correct' default notice cannot be issued after the date of termination - The creditor MUST get it right!

 

Whichever way I read it, Egg can not 'legally' issue us with any default since ending our agreements!!

[KingNev]

I can only tell you what I have done myself. I am challenging them by openly refusing to pay them a penny, and I have asked them to explain to me the legal source of their right to terminate my credit card agreement.

My experience has been that all of the credit card companies are liable to dish out default notices at the drop of a hat, so I find there is no point getting worried by default notices. If you are in the right, then all their default notices and letters from solicitors are merely hot air and huffing and puffing. Of course, you need to carefully check the legal situation. i.e study CCA 1974 very closely.

 

Toymaker thanks very much for that, I intended to challenge them regardless. Thanks to this forum I will be well prepared for their retaliation! I will update when things start to hot up!!

[basa48]

I too have sent Egg a letter challenging the 'termination' letter of 2008.

 

Interesting perspective about why they did it and I don't fully (well not at all actually) understand the implications of the changes in the CCA of 2007.

 

I like the comment about not being able to default a terminated account :grin:

 

All I'm getting from them is letters asking me to pay up and ring them if I am in financial difficulty.

 

Listen up Egg ... you're damn right I'm in financial difficulty, thanks to bankers like you! But guess what .. I ain't coming cap in hand to you, never. I'm going to try my best to screw you just like you've screwed all of us all these years. Oh, and I reckon I've got a bloody good chance of doing it too!!

[toymaker1]

I don't fully (well not at all actually) understand the implications of the changes in the CCA of 2007.

 

 

Do you mean 2006?

[basa48]

Do you mean 2006?

 

Not sure ... I was responding to 'ftd's' quote

Egg terminated the agreements when they did (before April 2008 when the new regs came into effect for pre 2007 agreements) because they were 'scared stiff' of what a judge 'may' order them to do in court (this makes great reading elsewhere on this forum).

[militantconsumer]

Do you mean 2006?

 

The 2006 changes became law in Jan 2007 I think.

[militantconsumer]

Toymaker1 its great to hear they are essentially impotent. I just wondered if it was possible to challenge them on this and avoid the default notice somehow??

 

I don't think you will avoid it in the first instance.

 

However, if the agreement has been terminated that would presumably mean they no longer have a right to share data with third parties (DCAs) that you only agreed to in the original agreement.

 

Therefore any default is a breach of the Data Protection Act, as well as being potentially defamatory on account of it being untrue.

[ftd]

I've been wondering about sharing/processing data with CCA's, what would be the legality of issuing Egg with a 'negotiation' along the lines:

 

If you want to share/process my data or handling of the account with any third party or CCA then there is a fee of £1000 each month.

 

If you do share/process my data then that will be taken as your agreement to these terms?

 

 

Obviously I plucked an arbiatary figure of £1000 out of the air, if you dont want them to share your info then it may as well be £10,000.

 

If you were to take Egg to court for the money, you don't have to convince a judge what the 'actual' cost is, it's the fact that you set (or negotiate) a price on a term that the other party has a choice to accept or not?

 

FTD

[ftd]

anyone else receive this email today?:

 

Changes to your Egg Card Agreement – account number eggeggXXXXXXXXftdftd

 

Dear Mr ftd

We're making some important changes to your Egg Card Agreement. As your card is no longer active, not all of these changes will affect you.

A summary of the changes effective from 28 May 2009

Condition 2 – this Condition is amended to give you more information about minimum payments. The minimum payment which you have to pay remains unchanged.

Condition 4.1 – this Condition is simplified but its meaning and effect is unchanged. Your interest rates are as previously notified.

Condition 4.2 and a new Condition 4.5 – we have reworded Condition 4.2 for clarity and have moved the section which refers to varying interest rates to a new Condition 4.5.

New Condition 5.3 – this Condition refers to other information about how payments are applied if you fall into arrears. The previous Condition 5.3 has been renumbered to Condition 5.4.

Condition 7.2 – the minimum fee for each Cash Advance made from an ATM is increasing from £3.00 to £5.00. The minimum fee for each Non-ATM Cash Advance Transaction is remaining the same at £3.00. Also this Condition is amended to explain how the minimum finance charge is shown on your statement and to explain which interest rates apply to Charges. This Condition is also amended to show that Existing Egg customers and anyone permanently employed by Egg Banking plc will now be charged a handling fee for each Cash Advance and Non-ATM Cash Advance.

Condition 8.1 – the definitions of "Agreement", "Credit Limit", "Gambling Transaction", "Purchase" are clarified, and the definition of "Existing Egg Customer" is changed to remove the reference to anyone permanently employed by Egg Banking plc.

Condition 9 – additional sections have been added into Condition 9. This has affected the numbering of the existing sections in this Condition.

Condition 9.1 – this Condition is amended to give you more information about Card renewals, authorisation of Transactions and the use of your Account.

Condition 9.2 – this Condition explains how you authorise Transactions.

Condition 9.3 – this Condition now contains information about the circumstances when we may decline Transactions.

Condition 9.4 – this Condition is amended to give you more information about currency conversion.

Condition 9.5 – this Condition has been moved from 9.3 and amended to make it clear that requests under this Condition are subject to our approval and that balance transfers may not pay off sums owed to Group companies.

Condition 9.6, 9.7 and 9.8 – these Conditions have been renumbered but are unchanged except for the inclusion of a reference to the minimum credit limit in 9.8.

Condition 10.1 – this is a new Condition making it clear that you must maintain an active Direct Debit to make your repayments as failure to do so will mean that we may withdraw the credit facility on your account.

Condition 10.2, 10.3 and 10.4 – these Conditions have been renumbered but the meaning and effect is unchanged.

New Condition 10.5 – this is a new Condition that explains what happens if your Fixed payment is more, or less than the minimum payment required under Condition 2. The previous Condition 10.5 which allowed us to allocate payments from you to the product with the highest rate is deleted.

Condition 10.6 – this Condition is unchanged but has been renumbered.

Condition 10.7 – this Condition has been renumbered and amended to give further detail on payment allocation.

New Condition 10.8 – this is a new Condition which explains when we will ask you to pay overdue minimum payments.

Condition 11 – the title of this Condition is changed so that it only refers to Cash Back.

New Condition 12 – this was previously Condition 11.4. It explains that we may offer a Special Promotion from time to time but is otherwise unchanged. Also additional wording has been added into this Condition to explain that you will not qualify for a Special Promotion if you are in breach of the terms of this Agreement.

Conditions 12 to 23 – the numbering of the existing Conditions 12 to 23 has been renumbered to Conditions 13 to 24.

Condition 13.1 and 13.2 – the security provisions in Condition 13 have been reworded and clarified.

Condition 13.4 – this explains that you will be liable for all losses if you act fraudulently.

Condition 15.1 – this Condition is amended to give you more information about your statement.

Condition 16 – this Condition is clarified but its meaning and effect is unchanged.

Condition 18 – Condition 18 is amended to introduce new customer rights if we increase interest rates. You can choose to cancel the use of your Card and keep your existing rate if you tell us you wish to do so before the change takes effect. We will also give an increased notice period for disadvantageous changes that apply to your existing balance.

Condition 18.7 – this Condition is amended to explain that we may suspend the use of your Card if you do not keep your contact details up to date.

Condition 19 – this Condition is amended to explain more about limiting use of the account.

Condition 20.3 – this is amended to explain how we may deal with overdue sums in certain circumstances.

Condition 20.4 – this Condition is changed to explain our right to set off credit balances on other Accounts you hold with us against overdue sums on your Egg Card Account.

Condition 21.5 – this Condition is amended to clarify your obligations and our rights on termination of your Agreement.

Condition 22.1 – this is amended to clarify the meaning of "Personal Information".

Condition 22.2 and 22.3 – this is amended to further explain how your Personal Information will be used. This will not affect or change any Personal Information sharing preferences that you have already agreed with us.

Condition 22.4 22.4 to 22.10 – Condition 22.4 is amended to explain what will happen if multiple searches are made. The remainder of 22.4 is outlined in Conditions 22.5 to 22.9. 22.7 now contains further information about how credit reference agencies use information and the remainder of Condition 22 is renumbered because of this.

Condition 23 – the wording of this Condition is clarified and Condition 23.2 gives additional information about the availability of the card.

Condition 24.1 – this Condition is clarified but its meaning and effect is unchanged.

Except where specified in this email, your Agreement remains unchanged. To view the new and amended Conditions, please visit our website.

If you have any questions about these changes, please call us on 08451 233 233. Alternatively, you can send us a secure message by logging in to 'your accounts' via www.egg.com

Yours sincerely

Mark Powys

Head of Card Product Management

Egg Banking plc

 

 

 

 

 

I've fired off another email asking why???

[pennypenny]

Yes, I have just checked and I have also received the exact same email.

[thekat1979]

I received it too - and a letter telling me they've terminated my agreement and sold it on. Now, tell me if I'm wrong, but haven't they ten terminated and sold on a debt that is a) in dispute and b) already been terminated?

[thekat1979]

Have you READ the new T&Cs? Looks like CAG has made some waves there! Especially around the 20, 21 and 22 if I remember rightly sections of the TnCs - they look quite hastily put together and don't read very well, but they do look like reactions to what is going on here.

[ftd]

the last part of term 21.5:

 

"The Agreement terms allowing the making of new Transactions will no longer be effective, but all other terms will continue to apply until you have repaid your Balance in full."

Also

the statement: 'With your consent' is missing from the sections relating to using/processing personal information with credit reference agencies / third parties!

Edited April 20, 2009 by ftd

[BEC01]

From what I have heard, it is a sinking ship.

They are just trying to tie up as many loose ends as they can before a desperate attempt at sale, allegedly.

 

Who would want their accounts with their unenforceable contracts though?

[basa48]

anyone else receive this email today?:

 

Changes to your Egg Card Agreement – account number eggeggXXXXXXXXftdftd

 

 

Yup got mine today. Didn't bother reading it though. Seemed irrelevant to a 'terminated' agreement

[thekat1979]

If they have put that new term in now, the one about new transactions not being allowed, but all other terms being still in place...two questions...

 

1. That wasn't there when they 'terminated' ours, so does it still apply to us, and

 

2. Seeing as that is against what the CCA says, and you can't make a cntract less favourable than the legal standpoint, then can they put that in anyway?

[basa48]

If they have put that new term in now, the one about new transactions not being allowed, but all other terms being still in place...two questions...

 

1. That wasn't there when they 'terminated' ours, so does it still apply to us, and

 

2. Seeing as that is against what the CCA says, and you can't make a cntract less favourable than the legal standpoint, then can they put that in anyway?

 

The only new law I can ever recall from memory being allowed to be retrospective was the Human Rights Act. Similarly all the recent changes to the CCA only apply to agreements completed after the changes became law.

 

I believe they can - CCA1974 98(4). It is in effect what they should have done instead of 'ending' our agreements.

[BlueSquirrel]

Yup got mine today. Didn't bother reading it though. Seemed irrelevant to a 'terminated' agreement

 

Ditto. Does make me wonder why they would make all these changes if there was nothing wrong in the first place

[basa48]

Ditto. Does make me wonder why they would make all these changes if there was nothing wrong in the first place

 

As the changes can't effect the enforceability of agreements prior to the issue of these changes I do wonder why they bother. Unless they think by tightening up might stop even more people thinking the agreement is flawed.

[BlueSquirrel]

As the changes can't effect the enforceability of agreements prior to the issue of these changes I do wonder why they bother. Unless they think by tightening up might stop even more people thinking the agreement is flawed.

 

Perhaps they are hoping people will not realise that these changes do not apply in those circumstances. Do Egg issue new accounts? If they do, presumably these new terms would apply to those and they are making sure they don't make the same mistake in the future with their dodgy agreeements.