Barclaycard/Mercers CCA request responce

[creditcardmug]

Hi all

will post up agreement again later (had personal details on)

Edited July 15, 2008 by creditcardmug
personal details

[mrmarmite]

Does it contain a credit amount/limit ?

does it contain an interest rate?

does it contain a repayment plan or anything simular?

 

i cant really read it as the small print the important stuff, BUT if it not got any of the above the answer is NO

[creditcardmug]

No it contains none of the above, it came with 2 sets o terms/conditions suposedly 1 original and 1 current, however there is nothing to link either with the application form, they could simply have got the from there filing cabinet, there arent even any dates on them

[mrmarmite]

it prob in small print on application form sommit like "bound to our terms and conditions"

 

anyway the answer is still no.

 

An application form which does not contain the prescribed terms laid down in Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and Consumer Credit (Agreements) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 (SI2004/1482)does not constitute a true copy of any credit agreement that may or may not have been signed.

 

there you go, does that help you any?

[creditcardmug]

This may be a better view of the smallprint

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj274/creditcardmug/CIMG0218.jpg

[B3rty]

It doesn't contain prescribed terms so not enforcable under 127(3)

[mrmarmite]

nope agree with b3rty. I would also point out THAT it is not signed by barlcays, an agreement of any description under s61 of the CCA shows that it MUST be signed by both parties

 

hook line and sinker, bugger is b-card will ignore ALL letters sent and twist it to their side saying it is a credit agreement, you respond by telling them to look at consumer credit (agreements) act 1983 of which will say different. it will be a fight, no argument, i'm still getting with my b-card to a point now that if i remove all charges and interest they owe me,

 

you MUST never give in, if you have the FACTS you stick to it, financial institutions abide by their OWN laws (i said this many times now) BUT they NEVER abide by the laws of the land.

[creditcardmug]

Sent This to Barclaycard in responce to the above

 

February 4th 2008

Barclaycard

Dept. LRC

1234 Pavillion Drive

Northampton

NN4 7SG

 

 

 

 

I DO NOT AKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

 

Dear Ms Roy

 

Re: = ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Re= My request under Sections 77-79 of the Consumer Credit act 1974

 

Thank you for your letter dated 23/1/2008 the contents of which have been noted. However, the reply received by me does not fulfil your obligations under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above alleged account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter dated 8th January 2008, upon receipt of the original request the specified account legally entered into disputed status.

 

My request remains outstanding. An application form does not constitute a true copy of a credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account and that which you have sent doesn’t even contain any of the prescribed terms that the act calls for and is not properly executed. Also the application form has no account number, and is not linked to the ‘original Barclaycard Conditions’, which also has no date. The current ‘conditions’ sent are irrelevant. I also require you to provide full details of all payments/interest/charges/balances to the account since its alleged inception to date.

 

As you will know, under the Consumer Credit act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can provide such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

 

You had until 22nd January 2008 to provide me with the true copy I requested. After that date you entered into default of my request. Whilst the account is in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest to the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agencies (or any third party and you may not legally transfer this alleged debt to any debt collection agency.

 

 

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the data subject to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

 

I respectfully ask you to remove any default reference to my credit file.

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. Any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioner’s Office.

 

The time limits, which are laid down in the Consumer Credit (prescribed periods for giving information) Regulations 1983 are clear. You must supply an executed credit agreement within 12 working days of a proper CCA request. If you fail to comply with a legitimate request the account enters a default situation and if you fail to comply after a further 30 days you commit a criminal offence. You entered into default on the 22nd January 2008 and you will subsequently commit a criminal offence if you have not fully complied by the 23rd February 2008.

 

Therefore you have until the 23rd February 2008 to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint, otherwise your conduct will be reported to the Office of Fair Trading, the Financial Ombudsman and Trading Standards, Any investigation undertaken by them may affect your ability to offer credit in the future.

 

 

In summary, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the documents I have requested. Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.

 

I look forward to your reply

 

Yours Faithfully

[creditcardmug]

Have today received this reply

 

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj274/creditcardmug/bcard/bcardccaokletterp1.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj274/creditcardmug/bcard/bcardccaokletterp2.jpg

 

Any thoughts

[creditcardmug]

Bump any comments on this?

[mrmarmite]

ello. soz i missed ya last post some how,

i have just got hold of (about 3 mins ago) agreement regs 1983 but not read it yet, i have looked over the 2004 updated version.

this "State" that the prescribed terms MUST be containd within the body of the agreement and MUST be shown together as a whole or interspersed with ANY other information apart from subtotals of total amounts OR corss referenced (i.e their terms and conditions) to the terms of the agreement,

 

the MINIMUN Prescribed terms.

a, Amount of credit or credit limit (variation allowed)

b. the rate of interest (variation allowed)

c. How the debt is to be repaid

d. Any power of the creditor to vary what is payable

e. the document MUST be signed by the debitor

 

as said this is 2004 version so might not be relevant as you pre-date that, when i can a couple hours i'll go over 1983 regs and advise if anything different.

 

have a look at my thread about b-card. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/125554-28-days-later-no.html

 

this could be of use in the not to distant future

[creditcardmug]

Thanks marmite i'm grateful for any comments, hope others will offer their input too

[creditcardmug]

Anyone else have any views on barclaycards reply to my letter in post 8?

[B3rty]

They obviously do not have the full copy as they say the prescribed terms were either on the reverse or incorporated into the application form so this would indicate they don't have an absolute copy to produce in court, however they do say that the page you signed specificaly refers to this, this is not identifiable on the image posted so its hard to say.....however the prescribed terms do need to be part of the signature document

At the end of the day a judge will decide and it will be your argument against theirs,you will need to be confident to argue your case using 127(3) in conjunction with SI 1553 schedule 6 and case law Wilson V Hurstanger......

The question is how confident do you feel?

[creditcardmug]

I have just looked again at what they have sent me, it says 'I agree to be bound by the Conditions of Use as set out overleaf'.

However they have not sent a copy of this page.

 

My understanding is that the prescribed terms must be within 'the four corners of the agreement' and they clearly are not, so on that basis i would be confident to argue it in court.

 

Also with the application form they sent two lots of t/cs are not linked to the form and are not dated, so i would say that these are completely irrelevant.

 

all opinions greatly recieved

 

CCM

[B3rty]

Thats great as the conditions of use may not have contained the prescibed terms...who can say with out seeing the complete document ....Looks like you have this one...

[mrmarmite]

yup. pic taken and stored on digital media/microfiche SO if in court and this gets brought up they can olny supply a copy of the back not original, then if that the case and they bring copy of this there is no proof that info (containing the terms) were on the back

 

any way, prescribed terms MUST be emboddied within the document signature page.

 

deffo sound like a hook line and sinker job to me

[creditcardmug]

Thanks guys for confirming what i thought

 

CCM

[creditcardmug]

Update received this letter this week

 

As you have not complied with the recent default notice, the outstanding balance shown above is now due in full and we demand that you pay this ammount to us immediately. your balance will continue to accrue interest at the current rate until we receive this payment. We will no longer send statements to you....Blah Blah.

 

The default notice was issued in january, and doesn't comply with the regs in any way at all.

[creditcardmug]

Update, have today received a letter from Lewis Debt Recovery, who say they are acting for CL Finance, who have bought the debt.

Included is a notice of assignment dated 18th june, and giving me a few days to pay in full, or they are instructed to take further action.

 

My questions are, what do i do now bearing in mind i CCAd bcard in january, and does anyone know if this DCA is part of CL Finance (i have had nothing from cl BTW)

[lickthewallfatboy]

tell them they've been sold a pup,and to go away please.......in short jerky movements!!

[creditcardmug]

bump

[creditcardmug]

bumping for advice

[Guest forgottenone]

Hello, don't know how much of this will help ... quickly looked up CL etc for you ... trying to find a link, could only come up with this from CAG:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/other-stores/57337-c-l-finance-ltd.html

 

And this from the Martin Lewis website:

 

One debt / letters from 2 companies - MoneySavingExpert.com Forums

 

Don't know how much use it will be, if any.

 

Having trouble with BC/Mercers right now ... pretty similar thing, been issued a pre application from and, like yours, isn't enforceable from advice here last week. Mine isn't signed by BC, either.

[creditcardmug]

bump