Advice re closed credit card account

[Sparklez30]

Hi,

 

I would really appreciate some advice. Some time ago I had an Alliance & Leicester credit card but I got into trouble and was unable to pay 4 years ago ish and it was passed on to Hillesden Securities. I never wrote to them but as and when I had any spare cash I paid the account (first through A&L telephone banking then on request from a Hillesden letter direct to them via bank transfers). The account is now paid in full but I have seen there is a default against me from Hillesden securities.

 

I now suspect there will be charges on this account as I was unable to pay so was bound to get panalties.

 

I no longer have any of the letters from Hillesden or any details of the original account from A&L but would like to try to get back the overcharges on this account (and would quite like the default removed if possible). Is there any advice on how to proceed as other than the addresses of A&L & Hillesden I have no other info.

 

Thanks in advance

[dpick]

Hi,

 

I would really appreciate some advice. Some time ago I had an Alliance & Leicester credit card but I got into trouble and was unable to pay 4 years ago ish and it was passed on to Hillesden Securities. I never wrote to them but as and when I had any spare cash I paid the account (first through A&L telephone banking then on request from a Hillesden letter direct to them via bank transfers). The account is now paid in full but I have seen there is a default against me from Hillesden securities.

 

I now suspect there will be charges on this account as I was unable to pay so was bound to get panalties.

 

I no longer have any of the letters from Hillesden or any details of the original account from A&L but would like to try to get back the overcharges on this account (and would quite like the default removed if possible). Is there any advice on how to proceed as other than the addresses of A&L & Hillesden I have no other info.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Hi like most of us on CAG we only found that we are able to reclaim charges and interest applied to those charges in the last two to three years and as statute of limitations is (in this case) 6 years from discovery of the fact that you can reclaim charges etc you will be OK. I would do S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to A&L with £10 fee with copy of letter to Hillesden(depending on whether debt was sold to Hillesden or not) you ask in S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) for full data not just last 6 years (they will try to say they only carry(or have to supply) this is not the case in my opinion. Then proceed to claim all charges and interest applied to charges that are on account.

 

all the best dpick:)

[Sparklez30]

Thanks for the very speedy reply!

 

Does it not matter that I don't have an account number should I just give them my full name and old address where the credit card was registered. I would have thought they could find it fairly easily as I was able to pay it over telephone banking so I presume it was linked to my current account which I still hold with them?

[dpick]

Thanks for the very speedy reply!

 

Does it not matter that I don't have an account number should I just give them my full name and old address where the credit card was registered. I would have thought they could find it fairly easily as I was able to pay it over telephone banking so I presume it was linked to my current account which I still hold with them?

 

No Matter you don't need to remember account numbers, just make sure you state that sar is for closed credit card account, though if you have charges on current account then ask for info on all accounts held with them (the £10 fee covers all accounts they hold but you would have to ask for all accounts)then seperate data when you claim as current account would be stayed due to test case.

 

all the best dpick:)

[Sparklez30]

oh thats a good point I do have 6 years bank account statements but have been advised to get the lot so I may as well combine it and save myself some money!!!

 

Thanks

[Sparklez30]

Sorry for posting again, I also have a flexiloan that runs along side my bank account which I know has at least a few charges on as well so I have included a request for all of those statements too.

 

Does the Flexiloan count as a loan and therefore not fall under the 'test case' as well?

[dpick]

Sorry for posting again, I also have a flexiloan that runs along side my bank account which I know has at least a few charges on as well so I have included a request for all of those statements too.

 

Does the Flexiloan count as a loan and therefore not fall under the 'test case' as well?

 

Hi again the test case is in regard to current account only, your loan and credit card are just other accounts with the bank and are all covered by asking for all accounts on your sar.

 

all the best dpick:)

[Sparklez30]

Thank you I look forward to receiving the reems of paperwork then (as I have been a customer with them for about 12 years lol)

[Sparklez30]

Sorry one more question for now. I did default on the credit card but paid the amount in full via installments to Hillesden securities. Can I still reclaim these charges as although I didn't pay the money to the bank I did eventually settle it in full with the DCA?

[dpick]

Sorry one more question for now. I did default on the credit card but paid the amount in full via installments to Hillesden securities. Can I still reclaim these charges as although I didn't pay the money to the bank I did eventually settle it in full with the DCA?

 

Hi again the charges were unfair no matter who you paid them to so yes you can reclaim. Now the default value contained these charges and interest applied to the charges so the value was incorrect so the default was invalid and should be removed. I would have a look at your CRA files and if like me you have a valid default as well as this invalid one, workout if that valid default will outlive the invalid default. For me I have a default from a loan that has no charges and has a fully enforceable credit agreement it will take me 2 years to pay off this so that default will remain on my CRA file for a further 6 years from then. I had a default from Littlewoods last year but for them they have no agreement so the account was marked as settled (they wrote off £1181) so this invalid default will clear off my CRA file before the valid one so I did not bother to get it removed. If you have no other defaults or if you have defaults that will clear before this default you could include the default removal in your claim. From my own limited knowledge they will refund the charges they will fight but not to much in my case they ignored me until court. But for the removal of the default they will fight tooth and nail against that as they are then admitting they entered incorrect data on your file.

 

You will need to workout if it is worthwhile to you to fight them over the default. As I said for me not worthwhile as already have a valid default that would outlive Littlewoods default by 3 years.

 

all the best dpick:)

[Sparklez30]

Sorry I've thought of another question. The default added to the CRA file was by hillesden Securities not A&L. I understand that A&L can add the default as i signed and its in the T&C (although I know theres some debate on this for finalised and paid accoutns) but why can Hillesden Securities because I never signed a contract with them?

 

I'm working my way through my defaults but they are all for similar timings but surely 1 default is better on my credit rating than 3 (or 6 as there is due to the error at the moment?)

[dpick]

Sorry I've thought of another question. The default added to the CRA file was by hillesden Securities not A&L. I understand that A&L can add the default as i signed and its in the T&C (although I know theres some debate on this for finalised and paid accoutns) but why can Hillesden Securities because I never signed a contract with them?

 

I'm working my way through my defaults but they are all for similar timings but surely 1 default is better on my credit rating than 3 (or 6 as there is due to the error at the moment?)

 

 

Hi Not sure of this but I think that in the T&C for the agreement it will include A&L or their agents, associates or something along those lines.

But as I say I am nit sure of this as any default I had was from OC.

 

all the best dpick:)

[Sparklez30]

Got a letter from A&L in response to my SAR request regarding all of my accounts with them although their letter only references the credit card and strangely says its through MBNA & theyve passed on my query and have provided me with their contact details for future reference.

 

This is very strange as my card was definately an A&L cash back card? I hope this doesn't mean I will have to send a SAR to MBNA & therefore waste another £10 I cant really afford?

[Sparklez30]

Me again. Got my statements for my credit card from A&L apparently (although at the bottom of their letter it does say the credit card is run by MBNA europe). I've worked out the charges on my account to total £402 since January 2002 which is as far back as the statements they sent go. I obviously had the card longer than that though as there is an opening balance!.

 

I've drafted the following letter mainly from one I found on here (thanks BankFodder) which I have altered slightly in places. I would be very grateful if someone could just give it a quick look over and make sure it all looks OK before I send it off and make sure I haven't put anything in I shouldn't or missed anything vital out as I couldn't find a CC letter template on here:-

 

 

Request for repayment of charges

 

 

Re. Account number: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

My request

 

I am writing to ask you to refund to me the charges which you have levied on my account Since January 2002.

 

I now understand that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my account in relation to late payment charges, reminder letter fees, exceeding credit limits fees and so forth are unlawful at Common Law and contrary to consumer regulations. If you say that they are not, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breaches, in order to reassure me that your charges really do reflect your costs.

 

Additionally, it has now been confirmed that your particularly high level of penalties are considered to be unfair per se by the Office of Fair Trading’s April 2006 statement into credit card charges, which noted that the level of charges at the time, and prior to that period, were unfair and are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary.

 

Your responsibilities

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise.

 

I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them.

Your concealment of the true nature of your charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now.

 

What I require

 

I calculate that you have taken £402.00 plus interest for the sum which you have taken. As I am unsure of the rate of interest you have levied against my account I have calculated the total of this based on interest at the statutory rate, the amount the court will award, totaling £163.79. Total due to me £565.79.

 

I enclose a schedule of the charges which I am claiming with this letter.

 

Additionally a default notice has been recorded against my credit record for the incorrect amount. This default was the result of impecuniosity’s caused directly by the taking by you of penalty charges which you had applied unlawfully to my account.

 

In addition to full payment of the sum mentioned above, I require that you arrange to remove the default entry from the register. Please note that mere correction or amendment to the entry will not be acceptable.

 

 

My targets to resolve this matter

 

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment.

 

If you dispute that I am entitled to a refund of these charges, I request that you forward within the above mentioned time scale, a copy of the Terms and Conditions that were in force at the time my account was opened, and any subsequent amendments to those Terms and Conditions. These are requested under CPR Pre-Action Protocol 4.6©, and failure to provide them will be brought to the attention of the court, should it be necessary to commence a county court action.

 

If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.

 

After that, there will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a claim at the expiry of the second deadline.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

 

 

Sparklez30

[Sparklez30]

I'm slowing getting there with this. I sent a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request to Hillesden securities who took over this debt and am stunned to see that I overpaid them by £120 on 31/05/07 and on the statment they provided they have written off this amount with the note "write-off specified amount" (actually they did it the wrong way once making my account go £240 overpaid then the next month they actually wrote off the £240 amount.). Surely they should have sent me a cheque to refund my overpayment or at least write to me or send me a statement to inform I had paid too much? Would it be worth making a complaint to them in relation to this cause it has really annoyed me!

 

They have never written to me or sent me statements to inform me of my overpayment so would i be within my right to demand this back along with stat interest @ 8% as they have kept hold of my money for 9 months (i know it won't alter the amount much but I feel agrieved that they have pinched my money!!!)

 

Also now both MBNA & Hillesden securities have responded to my SAR request but neither have provided a default notice or notice of assignment of the debt or a copy of my credit agreement.

 

Hillesden have defaulted me so can I now insist they remove this as they cannot prove they had the right to process my data? (also the amount would be wrong and include the charges?). If so how would I go about this.

 

I havent had much response to my previous posts but I would really really appreciate some guidance!

[Sparklez30]

Also the information I received from MBNA did not include all statements, the latter part for 2003 was just a printout listing charges.

 

I therefore cannot tell if the amount Hillesden securities were chasing was the same as the amount it finished at with MBNA? Is there any way I can get this info or do I just have to take their words for it?

[Sparklez30]

I have had a slight result with MBNA. They wrote confirming they would refund me £96 and a cheque would follow. Which I wrote back informing would only be accepted as partial settlement as I had asked for £402 plus interest.

 

Strangely their cheque arrived for £144. Will advise how I get on with the rest of it with them.

 

Still received nothing from Hillesden securities re my "written off" money so have sent them another letter giving them 14 days to refund me. If not luck I'll draft up a LBA

[dpick]

Nice one with MBNA from my reading they allways try this daft offer first you will probably have to issue proceedings to get them to go the full amount. But you never know they may just pay out, with me they did nothing more than acknowledge my letters until I went to court.

 

all the best dpick:)

[Sparklez30]

Further slight result. I wrote to Hillesden securities:-

 

A E Locke

HILLESDEN SECURITIES LTD

BUCKINGHAM ROAD

BRACKLEY

NN13 7DN

Dear Sirs,

Re Account No xxxxxxxxxxx – Formerly MBNA Europe Bank xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Thank you for your prompt response to my Data Protection act Subject Access Request however not all of the requested documents were enclosed. I have still not received from either yourselves or MBNA a copy of the default notice and notice of assignments, please send these to me or confirm if no such documents exist. Neither yourself or MBNA has been able to prove to me that Hillesden Securities had any right to chase me for this debt or process my data with credit reference agencies which is extremely concerning for myself.

As per my previous letters you are also aware that unlawful charges have been added to this account and therefore the default you have filed is for an incorrect amount and must be removed by you. Please confirm to me in writing that the default is being removed due to the incorrect information currently being filed by you.

It is also clear from the statement that you provided me that I have overpaid you by £120.00 on 31st May 2007. This overpayment was written off by you but it should have been refunded to me. As you are a consumer credit licence holder I am appalled that you have never written to inform me of this overpayment or forwarded any statements. Had I not sent a subject access request I would have had no way to know that this account had been overpaid by me.

I cannot understand why a cheque to refund the overpayment was never sent to me and feel that this is extremely bad practice particularly for a company that deals with outstanding debts on a regular basis. I wish to make a formal complaint in relation to this matter and as such will require a copy of your complaint procedures. I will be looking to receive compensation for the time and effort I have had to put in, in relation to this and upset your mistake has caused me and I look forward to receiving your thoughts on this matter.

In relation to the overpayment I have made I urgently require a cheque totalling £126.86 made up as follows:-

£120.00 refund of overpayment made in May 2005

£6.86 interest at the statutory rate of 8%, the amount the court will award

£126.86 Total

Please forward your cheque for £126.86 made payable to Ms Sparklez30 within 7 days.

I look forward to receiving your response to all of the above within 14 days and your cheque to refund my overpayment within 7 days.

In response I received the following letter today:-

 

Dear Miss Sparklez30

Thank you for your letter dated 15th February 2008. This has been passed to me for attention.

I can confirm and advise the following:

1 Please find enclosed a copy of the key pages of the sale agreement between Hillesden Securities and MBNA. Please note that we will not be able to supply a full copy of the agreement because the information containerd within it is commercially sensitive, however we would be happy to supply a full copy to a judge when required in court.

2 Our System does not recognise accounts that have received payments over the required balance due and I apologise that this had not been picked up sooner on the above account.

3 Please find enclosed a cheque in the sum of £150 in refund of the over payment made in May 2007 plus 8% interest..

I apologise again for the inconvenience this has caused and should you require any further information, please do not hesitate to contact me on the number below.

Yours sincerely

A E Locke

[Sparklez30]

So they have refunded me more than I asked for but there is still no credit agreement proving I allowed them to process my data (I really have no interest in their sale info).

 

And I know that point 2 is a fob off as someone in October 2007 tried to write off the overpayment but did it in the wrong direction making my account look £240 over paid. In November someone then went in and wrote off the £240 the correct way bringing the account back to zero so there were 2 opportunities for someone to refund me instead of write off the amount. I'm still mad about this.

 

Oh and also no complaint procedure! I'm tempted to write back to point this all out to them but not sure if its worth my bother???

 

 

THis isn't as rare as you would expect either. I've been helping a friend try to remove PPI from her old finance and new loan with welcome finance. They insisted on paying off the old finance with the new secure loan and took the money out of the figure they gave to them for the loan and provided a printout saying the amount due was £4800 odd with no breakdown.

 

When we sent SAR and received back the info on the original agreement (which we had to chase as they didn't send with all the new loan bits) it was clear that the £4800 overpaid the account by nearly £500. The next month there is an entry marked "correction" to bring the account back to zero. Thats even worse because effectively they overpaid themselves with her money then wrote off the overpayment! We are obviously claiming this back and await their explanation on what this "correction" constitutes!!!

[Sparklez30]

How can financial institutions that deal with debt as their sole purpose get away with this kind of behavior??? oops I'm mad again lol.