baliffs took car on hp

[shirlsisok]

the bailiff put a removal paper on my car they never came to my house l rang them and told them it was under hp and belong to peugeot they said they are not going to tow it but it will stay clamped till l pay the money but within the hour they had towed it l rang again and they said they were told to tow it even though it was on finance l have now got the bailiff law and it says they can not take a car on hp l went to the police and showed them the bailiff law and said they had stolen my car they said if l called them when they were about to tow it they could of stopped them but now that they have it there is nothing they can do.please can any body help me and tell me what to do next lm at my wits end thanks shirley

[chris600uk]

What was the debt for?

 

Chris

[shirlsisok]

parking tickets

[chris600uk]

Well I can't speak from experience so I'm not much help right now, mine was with council tax arrears. We've got a car on HP as well; I'd have done my nut if that had been touched.

 

I can't believe the Police said that:eek:

Surely if it was stolen when they were taking it, then it's still stolen.

 

Spend some time online here reading the relevant posts (just do a search for parking tickets, clamping, etc) and talking to those with the knowledge so that you are prepared for your next contact with the police, and the bailiffs.

 

Hope that helps,

 

Good luck

 

Chris

[shirlsisok]

thanks chris for that we are going to go to another police station to see if that makes a difference and l will be armed with as much info l can get. shirley

[chris600uk]

I've been a bit cheeky and pinched this off another site.

I can't say how authorative this statement is, but if true it may explain the attitude of the Police.

 

For the offence of taking without consent to be made out it would have to be shown that the vehicle was taken for use as a conveyance (ie not just loaded onto a truck and driven away) and that the taker did not think they had any right to take it (which they probably do, even erroneously, which is sufficient defence).

 

 

Sorry, I know this doesn't help right now, but you need facts and info, lots of it.

 

Hope it helps,

 

Chris.

[tomtubby]

Sorry but I have quite a few questions before I can advise further.

 

How many parking tickets are outstanding?

 

How much has the bailiff company stated that you now owe?

 

Can you send me by private message ONLY the name of the actual bailiif who removed your vehicle. I can then search to ensure that he is legally certificated.

 

 

Which bailiff company?

 

How many visits have the bailiff company made to your premises?

 

If the car is on finance....the bailiff can remove it. If however it is subject to hire purchase then it cannot be removed. Can you clarify which one applies.

 

Did you challenge any of these tickets or appeal them?

 

Finally, by law the bailiff MUST leave with you both a Notice of Seizure of Goods and Inventory ANY a copy of the Warrant of Execution issued by the Traffic Enforcement Centre. Can you confirm whether these documents were left.

[John McKenna]

If the vehicle is on HP, the only way the bailiffs would get authorisation from the finance company to remove it is if there was next to nothing outstanding on the finance agreement. In my experience, finance companies rarely authorise removal.

 

Phone the finance company and let them deal with it. If they refuse to deal with the bailiffs themselves (unlikely) just tell them you'll cancel the direct debit to them and they'll soon sit up and take notice.

 

The baliffs will probably end up having to bring the vehicle back at their own expense. When they do, make sure you're there to greet him with a big smile on your face (making sure your front door is shut).

[ThisVeryMoment]

Why did you get the tickets? I guess you knowingly parked where you shouldnt? Why didnt you pay the tickets promptly?

 

I have no sympathy at all.

[rambo]

Bailiffs are not allowed to take a car on finance, however that does not mean they won't. If they take the car it is NOT theft, it's TWOC, taking without owners consent. The difference?, theft is to permantley deprive you of your car and that is not the bailiffs intention, pay the tickets and they give you the car back.

Print of the relevent legislation and go to the police station. The police will say it's a civill matter, but it is NOT. When you show the police the legislation, they must act, do not take no for an answer.

Just another example of bailiffs doing what they like.

Be prepeard for a long, hard struggle.

[Boro]

To add to whats already been written i would say if the officer that you make the complaint to refuses to deal with the matter ask to speak to their supervisor, go as high as you need to to get the matter dealt with, good advice on contacting the finance company as well

[chris600uk]

Here's an extract for your perusal.

 

Theft Act 1968

Section 12. Taking motor vehicle or other conveyance without authority.

— (1) Subject to subsections (5) and (6) below, a person shall be guilty of an offence if, without having the consent of the owner or other lawful authority, he takes any conveyance for his own or another’s use or, knowing that any conveyance has been taken without such authority, drives it or allows himself to be carried in or on it.

 

 

Taking

 

There must be some positive movement of the vehicle. Simply rolling it forwards or backwards a few metres is not sufficient but, equally, it is not necessary that the engine be started. Releasing the brake and allowing the vehicle to run down a hill would be sufficient, as would driving the vehicle for a short distance. During the taking, the vehicle must be used to carry one or more people so that it is being used as "a conveyance". The taking may also be a material unauthorised use. For example, if a person hires a car to drive from London to Birmingham, but actually drives it to Glasgow, that will be a taking.

 

A conveyance

 

To be a conveyance, the vehicle must have been constructed or adapted to carry a driver (and others, depending on the design) whether by land, water or air (so it includes a hovercraft). The taking of a pedal cycle or the riding of pedal cycle, knowing it to have been taken without the owner's consent is excluded from s12(1), but covered by s12(5) with reduced penalties.

 

Without the consent of the owner

 

If the vehicle is taken with the owner's knowledge, the owner has consented. But apparent consent can be ignored if obtained by a deception, e.g. giving a false identity when hiring a car. This overlaps with the s15 offence of obtaining property or services by deception. Taking by force may be robbery when the defendant did not intend the victim to recover the car at all or so seriously damaged that it amounts to a theft (see s6). If the evidence is insufficient for theft, the alternative charges are aggravated vehicle taking or blackmail under s21. Note that s12(7) protects the interests of people hiring or buying under a hire purchase agreement by deeming them to be the owner for the purposes of s12.

 

Mens rea

 

The defendant must know that the vehicle has been taken without the owner's consent, and that the accused has either driven the vehicle or been a passenger.

 

Statutory defence

 

This is a statutory version of the so-called claim of right defence which represents an exception to the general rule that ignorantia juris non excusat, i.e. a limited mistake of law defence. Thus, s12(6) allows a defence where the defendant believes that he has the lawful authority to do it or that he would have the owner's consent if the owner knew of his doing it and the circumstances of it. So, for example, if a vehicle was moved a short distance because it was causing an obstruction, those moving it might reasonably believe that they have lawful authority to remove the obstruction.

 

Attempt

 

Because s12 is a summary only offence, there can be no attempt, so anticipatory acts are an offence of vehicle interference contrary to s9 Criminal Attempts Act 1981. The defendant must interfere with the vehicle or a trailer or anything in or on it. Merely touching the vehicle would not be enough. There must be some positive effort made to enter or affect it.

 

This is from the online wiki, remember what I said; you must read up and know your stuff BEFORE you start shouting about it, and if you can't do that pay someone to help you.

I can tell you this from bitter personal experience - because mistakes can either make you look a complete wally or may even be very costly.

 

I'm not trying to defend the police officers who refused to help you, but you'll get a lot further if you understand why they think as they do.

 

It's not really their fault, they haven't got the knowledge of this area of the law that hopefully you will come to have, they have to rely on what they learned as probationers, the beat companion and canteen rumour, oh, and the occasional course they might get sent on.

 

hope it helps,

 

Chris

[crash3903]

It's not really their fault, they haven't got the knowledge of this area of the law that hopefully you will come to have, they have to rely on what they learned as probationers, the beat companion and canteen rumour, oh, and the occasional course they might get sent on.

 

Maybe they should use the internet more eh?

[crash3903]

Assuming that the OP has not provided them with a key

 

For the offence of taking without consent to be made out it would have to be shown that the vehicle was taken for use as a conveyance (ie not just loaded onto a truck and driven away)

Presumably that have loaded it onto a truck to remove it?

[chris600uk]

Absolutely:-)agree with that!

 

Although my late father in law was a copper and his knowledge (predated the internet) of the law was encyclopeadic, we can't expect everyone to have the same thirst for knowledge after a long and possibly stressful shift.

 

Chris

[chris600uk]

Crash I'm sorry you were too quick for me, yes it may be so, but (and I'm not a lawyer so don't flame me for getting it wrong) there is I believe another related offence to do with interfering with the vehicle.

 

Someone somewhere on here will know I'm sure.

 

I don't, I'm at the limit of what I can do to help. (and possibly beyond it:-))

 

Regards,

 

Chris.

[crash3903]

Absolutely:-)agree with that!

 

Although my late father in law was a copper and his knowledge (predated the internet) of the law was encyclopeadic, we can't expect everyone to have the same thirst for knowledge after a long and possibly stressful shift.

 

Chris

 

Bit like myself - Didn't even know what the internet was when I started out practising in criminal law 23 years ago ;-)

[crash3903]

Crash I'm sorry you were too quick for me, yes it may be so, but (and I'm not a lawyer so don't flame me for getting it wrong) there is I believe another related offence to do with interfering with the vehicle.

 

Someone somewhere on here will know I'm sure.

 

I don't, I'm at the limit of what I can do to help. (and possibly beyond it:-))

 

Regards,

 

Chris.

 

Hey I would never flame anyone for opinions or helping others so not a problem

 

I will probably get flamed for this but hey ho

 

To go to the Police and tell them the law maybe the wrong place to start. I am not in any way defending them but you have to consider various options

 

The first thing I would do is to write to the company involved and suggest to them that they may have committed a criminal offence and state why you believe that (HP thing etc etc). Ask for your car back and no further action will be taken - If they refuse, and you are sure of your case, then go to the Police and ask them what to do, highlighting the relevant law you have found. You never know you may get a young probationer willing to research the case and take it on

 

I am suggesting this softly softly approach as some police officers have degrees in law, both civil and criminal, so they don't just rely on their training and you won't know that till they tell you

[chris600uk]

"Someone somewhere on here will know I'm sure."

 

See, not only am I a great guy, I'm telepathetic as well!

 

 

shirlsisok, take notes, you need this stuff.

 

Chris.

[crash3903]

See, not only am I a great guy, I'm telepathetic as well!

 

[shirlsisok]

thanks for all your help but if anyone has anymore answers l would be most grateful. shirley

[tomtubby]

It is difficult to provide any more answers unless you provide a little more information. I posted the following yesterday:

 

 

 

Join Date: May 2007

Posts: 435

 

 

Re: baliffs took car on hp

Sorry but I have quite a few questions before I can advise further.

 

How many parking tickets are outstanding?

 

How much has the bailiff company stated that you now owe?

 

Can you send me by private message ONLY the name of the actual bailiif who removed your vehicle. I can then search to ensure that he is legally certificated.

 

 

Which bailiff company?

 

How many visits have the bailiff company made to your premises?

 

If the car is on finance....the bailiff can remove it. If however it is subject to hire purchase then it cannot be removed. Can you clarify which one applies.

 

Did you challenge any of these tickets or appeal them?

 

Finally, by law the bailiff MUST leave with you both a Notice of Seizure of Goods and Inventory ANY a copy of the Warrant of Execution issued by the Traffic Enforcement Centre. Can you confirm whether these documents were left.

[shirlsisok]

tom l have sent you 2 private messages maybe l have done them wrong as l am new on here can you tell me what to do thanks shirley

[shirlsisok]

the car is on hp to peugeot and the ticket were not challenged

[shirlsisok]

can someone please tell me where l can get the codes of pratice of equita lve been to there website but there is nothing there l sent them a email but have heard nothing thanks shirley