Goods paid for, sent and signed for - just not by me!

[make them aktiv runners]

This is all based on a number of assumptions. For starters, the recipient doesn't have proof of posting - how can they (or Royal Mail) be sure that the item was actually sent to them?

How do they know the sender hasn't mixed up the tracking numbers and given them the wrong one?

How do they know the seller didn't make some mistake in addressing the item?

 

I would want to be fairly sure of my facts before I start making some kind of complaint to anybody.

 

And most importantly - the recipient has no interest or benefit in getting involved in any third party disputes.

 

As a consumer, if I order an item from XYZ company and it doesn't reach me, then I will expect XYZ company to rectify this. Why the hell should I start messing around contacting ABC courier company? It is the retailer who chose the company to deliver the item, not me - I didn't enter into any contract with a delivery company or select which one should be used - it is the seller's responsibility to sort it out. And the law quite clearly states that the responsibility lies with the seller - they need to sort the problem out.

 

I agree your principles. In practice though, it tends to fall down once the seller is informed (by their courier) that delivery is successful and a signature has been obtained. The major problem seems to be that although Royal Mail allow online tracking, it often fails to respond and you are then left with trusting the person at the other end of the 0845 (local rate) number.

 

I also agree that the seller may quote the wrong number (or equally the courier may interpret it incorrectly).

 

It is often just easier for the buyer to obtain all the sellers tracking and demand proof of delivery (ie signature) from the courier - ok they are not obliged to, but it does tend to prove quicker.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

According to whom?

 

 

Please re-read the thread title and OP's posts # 1 & 5.

 

The item has been signed for but not by the OP. One can conclude that the signature must obviously be forged.

 

No neighbour has signed for it (which RM will not allow in any case) and Posties must return recorded delivery items to the mail centre should there be nobody at the recipient's address.

 

Again, this particular incident has nothing to do with the sender as they have proven they sent the item.

 

The recipient needs to contact their local PO or contact the local sorting office and report this-it is not for the sender to do, although they may wish to.

 

This is not just missing mail-somebody has signed for it.

[barracad]

Please re-read the thread title and OP's posts # 1 & 5.

 

The item has been signed for but not by the OP. One can conclude that the signature must obviously be forged.

 

I did do, after I read your post, as I thought I must have missed something. But having read the thread, OP has not even seen the signature so how anyone can jump to the assumption that a signature has been forged is beyond me.

 

The item could have been misaddressed, or even addressed correctly but the postman delivered it to the wrong address in error. I don't know about you, but if the postman wakes me up early in the morning and I am greeted at the door with the rather curt "sign here" I would assume the package is for me and just sign for it. If I later discovered that the package was not for me then I would obviously contact RM and advise them what has happened - this would not mean I have forged somebody else's signature if I've signed and printed my own name, and I wouldn't appreciate being accused of doing something fraudulent.

 

As I have said, there are numerous possibilities as to what could have happened, and it would be in the OP's best interests to communicate directly with the seller rather than gettin involved with some other dispute.

[Bookworm]

Barra's right, and people are over-complicating this one, I think.

 

It's not buyer's responsability or headache to find out what happened to the parcel. He has paid for goods, and has not received goods. Seller has to supply goods, if seller then wishes for redress, it is up to seller to pursue carrier.

 

Way to pursue this is to contact seller, tell them goods are not supplied and either they supply or refund, or buyer will pursue seller for refund.

 

It's really that simple.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Barra's right, and people are over-complicating this one, I think.

 

It's not buyer's responsability or headache to find out what happened to the parcel. He has paid for goods, and has not received goods. Seller has to supply goods, if seller then wishes for redress, it is up to seller to pursue carrier.

 

Way to pursue this is to contact seller, tell them goods are not supplied and either they supply or refund, or buyer will pursue seller for refund.

 

It's really that simple.

 

Don't be ridiculous. The item has been sent, signed for and delivered! But not received!

 

What more does the sender have to do? Personally deliver it?

 

You agree with your colleague's last post, where he/she recognises the problem is at the receiving end, yet you still advise to sort it out via the sender.

 

It is Royal Mail who will sort out this kind of incident and the addressee needs to contact them.

 

Don't tell me I'm wrong because it was my job to do this with RM and I have done so a hundred times or more!

[barracad]

Don't tell me I'm wrong

 

But you are wrong. You don't seem to grasp what is being explained here, so what I'll reiterate now is purely for the benefit of the OP who needs to know what action to take to resolve this issue.

 

What more does the sender have to do? Personally deliver it?

 

Well yes, actually. I've posted the relevant legislation in post #7 - until the buyer actually has the goods in his hands, it is absolutely the responsibility of the seller. If they want to cover themselves by personally delivering the item, fine. However, the majority will choose to use a third party to deliver the goods - if they choose to do so then they have to accept whatever risk this brings, such as what appears to have happened on this occassion.

 

@arc: Have another glance at what I posted in #7 - as far as you're concerned, until you receive the item, the issue is completely between you and the seller, and it is the seller who needs to rectify the situation.

 

I can tell you for a fact that if you complain to Royal Mail as the recipient when you have no evidence to suggest that the item was even posted, let alone delivered and signed for, they will not be interested in your complaint as they won't have enough detail to be able to investigate it, and will refer you back to the seller.

 

If the seller does provide you with further detail, such as tracking number, signature, etc - you can if you want to do so chase it up with Royal Mail, but you are under absolutely no obligation to do so - your contract is 100% with the seller, and if you don't receive your item it's them you need to take it up with.

[Bookworm]

You're wrong.

 

Again, and as often as needed until the message gets through:

 

Sale of Goods Act 1979

 

delivery of the goods to the carrier is not delivery of the goods to the buyer.

 

Buyer says he hasn't received the goods. Not his problem who may or may not have received/signed for the goods, if he hasn't. Buyer has paid for goods he hasn't paid for. Buyer doesn't have a contract with carrier, seller does. Buyer however has contract with seller, and as far as buyer is concerned, seller hasn't delivered the goods, therefore, that's who to pursue.

 

I don't care if your job was helping Santa delivering presents, the issue is still strictly between buyer and seller (contract no1) and seller and carrier (contract no2). Once more with feeling: there is no contract between buyer and carrier. Therefore, buyer has no business pursuing carrier.

[Bookworm]

Sorry, Barra, was typing at same time.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

You're wrong.

 

Again, and as often as needed until the message gets through:

 

Sale of Goods Act 1979

 

delivery of the goods to the carrier is not delivery of the goods to the buyer.

 

Buyer says he hasn't received the goods. Not his problem who may or may not have received/signed for the goods, if he hasn't. Buyer has paid for goods he hasn't paid for. Buyer doesn't have a contract with carrier, seller does. Buyer however has contract with seller, and as far as buyer is concerned, seller hasn't delivered the goods, therefore, that's who to pursue.

 

I don't care if your job was helping Santa delivering presents, the issue is still strictly between buyer and seller (contract no1) and seller and carrier (contract no2). Once more with feeling: there is no contract between buyer and carrier. Therefore, buyer has no business pursuing carrier.

 

What a load of rubbish.

 

For a start there is no contract formed with postal delivery services with the RM.

 

Secondly, a fee is paid for the carriage and delivery of items handled by RM. Every item will have a sending point and a destination point, A to B.

 

In cases of dispute an investigation will take place to see at what point, A or B (or through the system between both) the item of mail in dispute has, or is most likely, to have been the problem.

 

In this thread's scenario the item of mail was sent, signed for and therefore delivered.

 

This is known as the OP has said so. Only the OP did not sign for the item, but somebody has, and he does not have it.

 

The recipient will need to instigate an investigation with the PO/RM and not the seller!! He has, and may continue to have, mail being taken by somebody else and only he, the addressee, can resolve this by making RM aware of it.

 

This is not JUST a case of missing mail-it is a case of somebody signing for his mail addressed to him!

 

It really is quite straight forward, just pop into your PO tomorrow who will tell you the same.

 

Unbelievable.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

But you are wrong. You don't seem to grasp what is being explained here, so what I'll reiterate now is purely for the benefit of the OP who needs to know what action to take to resolve this issue.

 

Then you are quite clearly ignorant. Can you not read the OP's posts that his item has been sent and signed for but not by him?

 

 

 

Well yes, actually. I've posted the relevant legislation in post #7 - until the buyer actually has the goods in his hands, it is absolutely the responsibility of the seller. If they want to cover themselves by personally delivering the item, fine. However, the majority will choose to use a third party to deliver the goods - if they choose to do so then they have to accept whatever risk this brings, such as what appears to have happened on this occassion.

 

The OP has already posted that his item was sent and signed for, the seller or RM will confirm this-or either/both already has.

Therefore the addressee has to make RM aware that his mail is being signed for by somebody else.

Or the OP will discover that the seller is telling lies.

 

@arc: Have another glance at what I posted in #7 - as far as you're concerned, until you receive the item, the issue is completely between you and the seller, and it is the seller who needs to rectify the situation.

 

I can tell you for a fact that if you complain to Royal Mail as the recipient when you have no evidence to suggest that the item was even posted, let alone delivered and signed for, they will not be interested in your complaint as they won't have enough detail to be able to investigate it, and will refer you back to the seller.

 

How do you know this from what has been posted? In fact the OP says the item was sent and signed for but not by him.

How do you know that RM or the sender or both have informed of this or not?

 

If the seller does provide you with further detail, such as tracking number, signature, etc - you can if you want to do so chase it up with Royal Mail, but you are under absolutely no obligation to do so - your contract is 100% with the seller, and if you don't receive your item it's them you need to take it up with.

 

OP-if your item has been sent but signed for by somebody else, as suggested by your initial post, then the sender has entrusted the delivery of your item to RM and one would suspect some foul play on behalf of RM as Recorded Delivery items can only be signed for by the addressee.

RM will investigate this once YOU make them aware of it.

 

 

...

[make them aktiv runners]

I can see both sides to this (there are ways for dishonesty by buyer or seller, or even a simple mistaken response via phone from the carrier). For the OP, how do you know it has been signed for (who told you) and what proof was offered?

[Bookworm]

*sigh*

 

How do you know someone doesn't know what they're talking about? Easy, when they resort to insults towards others who disagree with them to try and force their point across.

 

Since I have absolutely no interest in joining in a who-can-swagger-the-most contest, I shall simply say this to OP: You have been given lots of contradicting advice, I'm sorry to say that because of that, you will have to choose whose you want to follow, and I wish you good luck. You could also contact Consumer Direct, and ask them their opinion. ;-)

[Weird Al Yankovic]

*sigh*

 

How do you know someone doesn't know what they're talking about? Easy, when they resort to insults towards others who disagree with them to try and force their point across.

 

Since I have absolutely no interest in joining in a who-can-swagger-the-most contest, I shall simply say this to OP: You have been given lots of contradicting advice, I'm sorry to say that because of that, you will have to choose whose you want to follow, and I wish you good luck. You could also contact Consumer Direct, and ask them their opinion. ;-)

 

Hang on Bookworm, you first raised an insult by saying, 'I don't care if your job was helping Santa delivering presents...'

 

So you didn't join in but you actually started a downward tone.

 

The point you are missing is that the item was a Recorded Delivery and signed for but not by the addressee. In this instance the intended addressee has to make a complaint as nobody* else can as only the addressee, or those at the address, can sign for it.

 

*If the seller raises the complaint then the investigation will just automatically turn to the addressee to answer. Pretty pointless.

 

Any address in the UK having mail signed for from Royal Mail which appears to be fraudulant, as in this case, has every right to complain direct to the carrier, ie Royal Mail, as it is statute provision to do so.

 

I shall now post up the legislation and what an addressee must do in instances such as this.

[Bookworm]

Hang on Bookworm, you first raised an insult by saying, 'I don't care if your job was helping Santa delivering presents...'

 

So you didn't join in but you actually started a downward tone.

I think you'll find you actually first started an answer to me by saying "don't be ridiculous", and I fail to see where my comment was an insult to you, merely a comment couched in humorous seasonal terms. What it means is: "you might have worked for RM, it doesn't seem to indicate that you have a working knowledge of SOGA, which is what both Barracad and myself are referring to, and last I checked, Acts of Parliament superseded contracts, T&Cs and even working practices."

 

The point you are missing is that the item was a Recorded Delivery and signed for but not by the addressee.

And the point you are missing is that that is totally irrelevant.

 

The only relevant point is that the buyer has paid for goods and has not received them.

 

It is not his concern who may or may not have sent the goods, who may or may not have signed for them, who may or may not have run off with the goods.

 

In this instance the intended addressee has to make a complaint as nobody* else can as only the addressee, or those at the address, can sign for it.

Wrong. The sender paid to have items delivered to buyer and signed for by buyer. Therefore, it is up to the sender to raise a complaint.

 

Be that as it may, both Barracad and I have advised OP what he should do, in our opinion, you have advised differently, as previously stated, this is a self-help forum, OP will choose to do as he wants.

 

Bookie, over and out on this thread.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

I think you'll find you actually first started an answer to me by saying "don't be ridiculous", and I fail to see where my comment was an insult to you, merely a comment couched in humorous seasonal terms.

 

Hmmm, and Bernard Manning was humorous to some too. But not everybody. I didn't find your condescending comment in the least bit humorous.

 

What it means is: "you might have worked for RM, it doesn't seem to indicate that you have a working knowledge of SOGA, which is what both Barracad and myself are referring to, and last I checked, Acts of Parliament superseded contracts, T&Cs and even working practices."

 

As does the Postal Services Act 2000. An addressee who is/has had Recorded/Special Delivery or other premium mail problems needs to complain to Royal Mail who will investigate.

The item has been signed for but not by the addressee.

If it is found that a fraudulant activity has occurred by a RM employee then I very much doubt the SOGA will be relevant as the criminal activity will supercede the seller's obligation under the SOGA. How could the seller be at fault?

And yes, a RM employee is subject to Common Law like everybody else.

 

And the point you are missing is that that is totally irrelevant.

 

The only relevant point is that the buyer has paid for goods and has not received them.

 

It is not his concern who may or may not have sent the goods, who may or may not have signed for them, who may or may not have run off with the goods.

 

Wrong. The sender paid to have items delivered to buyer and signed for by buyer (No it wasn't! Look at the thread title!!). Therefore, it is up to the sender to raise a complaint.

 

In that case if you are having enormous problems with mail not reaching you but it is being signed for, for your address, then you ignore your PO/RM and just ask every sender to raise complaints for you to resolve it?

Look, to keep it very simple, just phone RM helpline and say that you believe that items of mail are not reaching you and Recorded items are being signed for by somebody unknown.

Post back up what RM will tell you, the addressee, what to do.

 

Be that as it may, both Barracad and I have advised OP what he should do, in our opinion, you have advised differently, as previously stated, this is a self-help forum, OP will choose to do as he wants.

 

Bookie, over and out on this thread.

 

...

[make them aktiv runners]

At the end of the day, if the carrier has dishonest employees then the ultimate legal way to resolution is:

 

1) Buyer sues Seller

2) Seller sues carrier

 

In reality that probably would be avoided as RM (or whoever) would step in and resolve themselves as it is their cheaper solution.

 

My concern, was not so much the legal interpretations, but how easy it is to end up in court with a case that could have been sorted much earlier.

 

Playing Judge here:

Buyer raised case, burden of proof on buyer

Buyer spent money to put the case in court

How much is the lost item in comparison to court fees?

Sellers conduct, may have an excellent reputation with lots of sales and no complaints, equally could be in a position where ebay are cautious and wish to remove sales from that seller.

Evidence of delivery - Is there a signature. Is it reasonable for the seller to believe it was delivered correctly and the buyer is just trying it on (eg any household member or visitor could sign)

 

Much of the issues surround the seller and buyer not knowing each other, and ultimately it is easy for each or both of them to become suspicious of the other. There is of course the possibility that both are correct and say for example, paypal has transposed the address incorrectly.

 

Most importantly, if the item is likely to have been delivered by a regular postie, then this is the very person who may well remember more clearly. The number of days elapsed and vast envelopes delivered are simply going to affect posties ability to remember an isolated post.

[Bookworm]

Ok, once more, hopefully really for the last time.

 

Hmmm, and Bernard Manning was humorous to some too. But not everybody. I didn't find your condescending comment in the least bit humorous.

Well, it made me laugh. However, the fact remains that it wasn't an insult and that you had in fact called one previous comment "ridiculous" first. You don't want to admit to it, that's fine, people can read. Moving on...

 

As does the Postal Services Act 2000. An addressee who is/has had Recorded/Special Delivery or other premium mail problems needs to complain to Royal Mail who will investigate.

 

The item has been signed for but not by the addressee.

 

If it is found that a fraudulant activity has occurred by a RM employee then I very much doubt the SOGA will be relevant as the criminal activity will supercede the seller's obligation under the SOGA. How could the seller be at fault?

 

And yes, a RM employee is subject to Common Law like everybody else.

I've highlighted the salient point. You're talking fault, I am talking responsibility. The seller may not be at fault, probably isn't in fact, but neither is the buyer. The responsibility to deliver the goods to the correct addressee lies with the carrier. However, it is the seller who paid to have the item delivered, it is the seller who would be covered by the insurance/compensation, therefore, it is up to the seller to raise the complaint.

 

Wrong. The sender paid to have items delivered to buyer and signed for by buyer (No it wasn't! Look at the thread title!!).

Huh? What's that got to do with what I was saying? The sender paid to have items delivered to and signed by buyer, the title said it wasn't signed for by him, yes, we know that, so? :-?

 

In that case if you are having enormous problems with mail not reaching you but it is being signed for, for your address, then you ignore your PO/RM and just ask every sender to raise complaints for you to resolve it?

No. I'd ask every sender to comply with my contract with them and make sure goods reach me or refund me. If they wish to raise a complaint with carrier, I will of course endeavour to cooperate in every which way I can, but I sure as hell won't take over their obligation to supply me with whatever I bought. I may contact RM to make them aware that there seems to be a pattern here, but that's purely out of civic duty, not because I have to.

 

I really can't make myself any clearer, so definitely off this time, as we're going round in circles.

[barracad]

Apart from the fact that it is the seller's responsibility by law to get the item to the recipient which you refuse to acknowledge, you also appear to be missing one very important point which I have tried to clarify several times:

 

Your allegations of fraud, forged signatures, etc etc are based completely on your own interpretations and assumptions on what the OP has said. From the limited information which has been given, he only has the seller's word that the item was posted, and that it has been delivered and signed for.

 

Unless there is some further information the OP has not given us, then he doesn't even have the tracking number, let alone the copy of signature. He doesn't have proof of posting to establish if the item was actually addressed correctly. Quite simply, he cannot say for certain if the item was even posted (based on the information given in this thread) and for that reason alone, Royal Mail will refer him to the seller as the seller will have the full details needed for them to investigate a complaint.

 

Whilst the seller could of course be telling the truth and there could be foul play on the part of Royal Mail as you are making a song and dance about, equally the foul play could be on the part of the seller (it's not unknown with ebay sellers).

 

 

Either way, the simplest thing for the OP to do is to take the complaint up with the seller, rather than get tied up in any other disputes.

 

 

OP paid seller for an item to be delivered to his door. He has not received the item. Therefore seller has not fulfilled their part of the deal. Therefore seller is at fault. Geddit?

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Goods paid for, sent and signed for - just not by me!

Hi

 

I bought an item from a business via ebay and paid via paypal.

 

They sent the item via recorded delivery and it has been delivered and signed for, but I didn't sign for it and nobody I know (neighbour etc) did either.

 

What can I do?

 

Any help much appreciated

 

Thank you

 

 

The above is the original posting.

Quite simply, in black and white, the buyer has been told that his item has been sent Recorded Delivery, delivered and signed for but the buyer did not sign for it, or his neighbour etc (which they wouldn't be able to do anyway) and the buyer does not have the item.

Either

a) The seller has told him this.

b) RM Track and Trace show this. (If he has been given the tracking number)

c) His local sorting office, PO or his postie (unlikely, unless a Xmas casual) has told him this.

d) Or a mixture of some or all of the above.

Below is my first posting:

Via Royal Mail?

 

Get in touch with them and explain the situation and also inform the seller as he will need to speak with them too.

 

RM employ a lot of casuals this time of year but they don't train them properly.

 

My first posting was good and correct advice in this situation.

It is Xmas time with an enormous amount of mail going through the system. The buyer would need to wait up to 15 days in any case for Royal Mail to deliver.

However, the OP has stated the item has been sent, signed for and delivered but, obviously, not by him.

A simple enquiry to RM may have resolved this right from my first post.

One can safely assume the buyer has the tracking number OR he is taking the word of the seller who has informed him of the delivery.

I also advised the buyer to inform the seller to explain the situation.

 

You can certainly make some enquiries with Royal Mail if you think it will help but you are under no obligation to do so. Furthermore, RM probably won't be able to give you much more detail - Recorded Delivery items are not tracked, so they may not even be able to tell you what address it was delivered to.

 

Barracad's first post and totally inaccurate. Recorded Delivery items are indeed tracked and, by law, Royal Mail must deliver to the address marked on the item, so for Royal Mail to not even know the address of a Recorded item, as stated by Barracad, is nonsense.

From Royal Mail's website:

What is Track & Trace?

Track & Trace is a Royal Mail service that lets you check the status of a trackable item that you sent through the post. The following services can be tracked:

for items sent within the UK:

• Special Delivery™ 9am
  
• Special Delivery™ Next Day
  
• Royal Mail Tracked™

We also offer the Recorded Signed For™ service for items that are being sent by first or second class.

 

A further post from Barracad:

 

This is all based on a number of assumptions. For starters, the recipient doesn't have proof of posting ( How do you know this?)- how can they (or Royal Mail) be sure that the item was actually sent to them? (By Track and Trace-it was Recorded)

How do they know the sender hasn't mixed up the tracking numbers and given them the wrong one? (Sounds like a possible assumption)

How do they know the seller didn't make some mistake in addressing the item? (And another)

I would want to be fairly sure of my facts before I start making some kind of complaint to anybody. Agreed, which is why I advised the buyer to contact Royal Mail and the seller.

Facts from Royal Mail would determine if the seller has been telling the truth.

The rest of both Barracads and Bookweed's posts are totally irrelevant quoting the SOGA as it is jumping the gun unless the seller is telling lies about delivery.

This we need to know from the OP and what proof he has the item has been delivered, tracking number etc.

The OP stated that goods have been sent, delivered and signed for but not by him. This indicates he has knowledge that this is indeed the case.

I repeat, the buyer has every right to contact RM, (addressee's complaints are investigated and not just sender's-how else does one complain about damaged mail?) as it appears his mail has been signed for by somebody. Or the seller is lying.

The issue of the delivery needs to be cleared up before quoting this and that.

 

 

 

 

 

[Weird Al Yankovic]

At the end of the day, if the carrier has dishonest employees then the ultimate legal way to resolution is:

 

1) Buyer sues Seller But the seller would have a good defence if it is actually found that he acted in good faith in sending the item but it was fraudulently signed for, which appears to be the case or the buyer is being lied to.

If some wrong doing by RM happened then it would be logical for the sender to be involved in the investigation and the buyer should be informed.

What if the item was a unique item that cannot be replaced?

In any case, it would also be logical for the seller to reimburse the buyer whilst also claiming from RM.

Why would the buyer instigate proceedings in this scenario? The seller has to be given the chance to rectify the situation.

2) Seller sues carrier Not possible with RM I'm afraid.

 

In reality that probably would be avoided as RM (or whoever) would step in and resolve themselves as it is their cheaper solution.

 

My concern, was not so much the legal interpretations, but how easy it is to end up in court with a case that could have been sorted much earlier.

 

Absolutely agree. Other poster's seem to have an inclanation for legalities rather than common sense to prevail.

 

 

...

[barracad]

You've once again completely ignored the fact that that the OP is only at this stage taking the seller's word for what has happened, and he doesn't have enough detail for RM to investigate the complaint (unless there is further information we don't know e.g. OP has tracking number), so I won't even bother responding to the rubbish you've posted as I don't want to argue the toss when I know I'm right and anyone who doesn't believe me can read the quote from SOGA anyway.

 

However, I feel I must correct the following, especially when you claim that your experiences of Recorded Delivery is based on some professional knowledge:

 

 

You can certainly make some enquiries with Royal Mail if you think it will help but you are under no obligation to do so. Furthermore, RM probably won't be able to give you much more detail - Recorded Delivery items are not tracked, so they may not even be able to tell you what address it was delivered to.

 

Barracad's first post and totally inaccurate. Recorded Delivery items are indeed tracked and, by law, Royal Mail must deliver to the address marked on the item, so for Royal Mail to not even know the address of a Recorded item, as stated by Barracad, is nonsense.

 

 

Recorded Delivery is not tracked. It provides confirmation of delivery (and signature) only. A First Class Recorded Delivery letter will travel in exactly the same way as any other First Class letter. It is not tracked throughout it's journey at all. The only time a record is kept is when a delivery is confimed.

 

Furthermore, the only way it is tracked is throught the thirteen digit referennce number - no record of delivery address is kept on their system, and the most detail they can tell you is which Delivery Office delivered it, so as stated previously, they probably wouldn't be able to confirm which address it was delivered to.

 

This is not nonsense - it is absolute fact. Royal Mail will confirm this for you as you seem to be getting so worked up about it - their phone number is 08457 740 740.

 

 

However, for the umpteenth time, even though what I am saying is correct, it makes no difference. The OP needs to pursue the seller, not Royal Mail.

[IdaInFife]

Ok.

 

We all know that is it the sellers responsibilty to get the item to the buyer but what were are also trying to do is show the buyer ways in which he can try to get the goods or refund without having to go court stage.

 

Yes it was the seller that sent via royal mail and says has a signature and at this stage, whether right or wrong, all he will be concerned with is that he has a tracking number to provide to paypal so they do not refund the buyer.

 

As far as the seller is concerned at this stage (from what op has said) they they have sent the item and it has been signed for.

 

 

 

We really need to know op, do have you have the tracking number?

 

If not please ask seller for it and come back.

 

 

Idax

[Weird Al Yankovic]

You've once again completely ignored the fact that that the OP is only at this stage taking the seller's word for what has happened Where on earth has the OP stated this???, and he doesn't have enough detail for RM to investigate the complaint (unless there is further information we don't know e.g. OP has tracking number), so I won't even bother responding to the rubbish you've posted as I don't want to argue the toss when I know I'm right and anyone who doesn't believe me can read the quote from SOGA anyway.

 

However, I feel I must correct the following, especially when you claim that your experiences of Recorded Delivery is based on some professional knowledge:

 

 

 

Recorded Delivery is not tracked. It provides confirmation of delivery (and signature not the case if included in bulk mail) only. A First Class Recorded Delivery letter will travel in exactly the same way as any other First Class letter. It is not tracked throughout it's journey at all. The only time a record is kept is when a delivery is confimed Not true, please read on.

 

Again, not quite right.

 

The travel of a Recorded Delivery item is not the issue here, it is the tracking of it.

 

'Recorded Delivery' gives it away somewhat!

 

A Recorded Delivery letter cannot simply be posted into a postbox with 1st and 2nd class mail, although it will travel via this method.

 

One has to use the Post Office and fill in a form where the item of mail is recorded-the Post Office being point A and the item being recorded at point A-which is the first stage of the Recorded Delivery tracking.

 

The delivery of that item is at point B-the destination. Once a signature is received, from the addressee or somebody at the address that was recorded at point A-then that is the final stage of the tracking of Recorded mail.

 

The 'Track and Trace' on-line system RM use for recorded is exactly the same as for Special Delivery.

 

Just because Special Delivery has regular updates of the journey does not mean Recorded mail isn't tracked.

 

 

 

Furthermore, the only way it is tracked (you have just stated above that Recorded mail is not tracked!) is throught the thirteen digit referennce number - no record of delivery address is kept on their system, (Yes it is-by the hard copy the customer fills in at the PO which is then scanned onto RM's computer system for a retention period of three years-this is done right in front of you at the PO-and easy access is then via the barcode from the form) and the most detail they can tell you is which Delivery Office delivered it, (Also the actual postie who did so, the date, the time (ask your postie to see the booklet you are given to sign next time you have one as the postie will log it in) so as stated previously, they probably wouldn't be able to confirm which address it was delivered to.(Yes they would as it is a major point of this service-customer's need/want to know that they posted a letter to a certain address, such as a court, and are able to prove it, hence it is 'recorded' and therefore tracked. Also needed for compensation claims)

 

This is not nonsense Yes it is - it is absolute fact No it is not. Royal Mail will confirm this for you as you seem to be getting so worked up about it a little, yes- their phone number is 08457 740 740.

 

 

However, for the umpteenth time, even though what I am saying is correct, it makes no difference. The OP needs to pursue the seller, not Royal MailAll my advice was to the OP was to contact RM, and the seller, as he seemed to have indicated knowledge that somebody has signed for his mail.

 

This is what I believe any normal person would/should do.

 

Facts have to be determined before going around recklessly threatening people with legalities.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/content1?mediaId=51200700&catId=500201

 

Point 6 rather supports my previous post.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

http://track.royalmail.com/portal/rm/content2?catId=400145&mediaId=15400472

 

All Royal Mail trackable services.

 

I could go on but I'm now bored...