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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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HFC BANK Marbles card and CCA issues mr.p.


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this is HFC tact - we are also having a wrangle with them.....i am waiting to hear from them as i have already informed them that they can not proceed with any further action as the account is in dispute.

Northern Rock - loan - £6000

Beneficial credit card - £12+

GM Card - £13+

will have to look up the others have about 21 debtors totalling about £175,000

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Hi phatram,

i think now is the time to gather all your documentation, collate it appropiately, and send it recorded to the oft, trading standards, the information commissioners office, and the fos. Post the docs ASAP, then wait for your replies, meanwhile as you have stated to the bank via your CCA request, (that they have failed to properly act on), they are not by law to alter you credit file while they are in default, any such doings constitute as criminal acts, as a bank should know better this will count against them also. Only If you are absolutely positive that they have failed in their duty to supply you with all of the documents that are consistant and part of your CCA ,should you stand firm,and make copies of all documentation, if they wish to take the matter to court then they would be rather foolish, i think that maybe this is to make you panic and submit you, to get what they want from you,as i said only if you are completley sure they have not done what you have lawfully requested of them ,stand firm, collate and copy all documentation, then send it to the above groups ASAP.

Stuffem!!!

Regards gordon

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HFC

BANK

PO Box 3607, Birmingham, Bl 2XJ

 

 

 

 

 

Your complaint is being investigated by: Annette Mulligan Central Complaints Telephone: 0845 602 3793

Mon-Fri at 9:00am-5:00pm

 

 

 

 

19 February 2008

 

Dear Mr xxxxxxxx

 

Re: Account xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx

 

Thank you for your letter of 8 December 2007 informing us of your further concerns. Your letter has been referred to me for investigation as a member of the Central Complaints Department. Please be advised that I would have been happy to address your concerns verbally, however, we do not currently have your telephone number on file.

May I begin by apologising for the delay in responding to your concerns, which are that the legal agreement provided to you is illegible. Please find enclosed a further copy for your ease of reference.

I trust that you have received my final response letter which clarifies our position in this matter, however, should you have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact the office.

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

 

 

Annette Mulligan Operations Manager Central Complaints

 

 

 

HFC Bank Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority. Registered Office: North Street, Winkfield, Windsor, Berkshire SL4 4TD. Registered in England No. 1117305.

 

Member HSBC

Group91900.1103L

The "copy" sent is still as bad as the first one and in big letters it says

 

YOUR PRIORITY APPLICATION FOR THE MARBLES CARD

Then,

credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974

this agreement is made betweenus, HFC bank plc whose registered office is at north street winkfield windsor berkshire and You the customer named below.

Application subject to status.

Application Number xxxxxxxxx Version 1

 

Most of the small print down the right hand side is illegible with words and in some cases whole sentences missing or blurred.

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HFC

BANK

PO Box 3607, Birmingham, Bl 2XJ

 

 

 

 

 

Your complaint is being investigated by: Annette Mulligan Central Complaints Telephone: 0845 602 3793

Mon-Fri at 9:00am-5:00pm

 

 

 

 

19 February 2008

 

Dear Mr xxxxxxxx

 

Re: Account xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx

 

Thank you for your letter of 8 December 2007 informing us of your further concerns. Your letter has been referred to me for investigation as a member of the Central Complaints Department. Please be advised that I would have been happy to address your concerns verbally, however, we do not currently have your telephone number on file.

May I begin by apologising for the delay in responding to your concerns, which are that the legal agreement provided to you is illegible. Please find enclosed a further copy for your ease of reference.

I trust that you have received my final response letter which clarifies our position in this matter, however, should you have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact the office.

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

 

 

Annette Mulligan Operations Manager Central Complaints

 

 

 

HFC Bank Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority. Registered Office: North Street, Winkfield, Windsor, Berkshire SL4 4TD. Registered in England No. 1117305.

 

Member HSBC

Group91900.1103L

The "copy" sent is still as bad as the first one and in big letters it says

 

YOUR PRIORITY APPLICATION FOR THE MARBLES CARD

Then,

credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974

this agreement is made betweenus, HFC bank plc whose registered office is at north street winkfield windsor berkshire and You the customer named below.

Application subject to status.

Application Number xxxxxxxxx Version 1

 

 

Most of the small print down the right hand side is illegible with words and in some cases whole sentences missing or blurred.

Sorry,

this letter arrived today.

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Hi Phatram,

To be really honest.... if this is what they have sent you, and if this is what they consider to be a "True executed copy of a legal document", then i am affraid we are both dealing with the creme de la creme of true amatures.

Section 77 s1(a)(b)© are fully explained in the Consumer Credit Act 1974, if they cannot read or they are just blatantly stupid (both points being correct in my view of course) then they do not have a case and the credit/finance or loan agreement you have with them is still in dispute..

 

Regards Gordon

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Hi Phatram,

Gather a copy of all the letters you have sent them regarding your request for your CCA, then also type up a letter stating that they have failed on your numerous requests, then go to John Antell barrister and download the Consumer Credit Act 1974, then look through it carefully (sections 77-79), then create your letter and also state that this letter is you final response to this saga, that they cannot alter/charge or display and penalty of any form while the account is in dispute,then as i said in previous threads,collate all your documentation including the final response that you have typed up, then forward all documentation to Trading Standards, The Commissioners Office, The office Of Fair Trading, and the Financial Ombudsman,(all recorded delivery) then sit and wait.

 

Regards Gordon

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Ah... Ms. Mulligan... I have also had the "pleasure" :rolleyes: . Her letter is quite polite, but her next one will probably cut you dead after she runs out of things to say. I've adapted my own response to her to suit your own situation.... send by rec. delivery and keep the receipt.

 

Dear Ms. Mulligan,

 

Your Ref : xxxxxxx

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx in response to my legal request and complaint.

 

A I stated in my previous correspondence to xxxxxxx however, the document that HFC have so far provided is nothing more than a pre-contractual Application Form; complete with application number. It contains no prescribed terms, APR, credit limit and/or terms and conditions. Therefore, contrary to the comments in your letter as well as in xxxxxxx’s, this document does not represent a legally binding Agreement under the above Act, whether legible or not. In fact, with the application documents that you have so far supplied on two occasions, the account remains legally unenforceable, under The Consumer Credit Act, 1974; section 127 (3).

 

Please be advised that any legal action you may be contemplating now or in the future will be vigorously defended on the basis of continuing to re-enforce an unenforceable document.

 

I trust this clarifies my position and yours and look forward to your considered response in due course.

 

Yours sincerely,

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Hi Phatram,

Below is an example of the kind of things you could include along with P1's example, edit as you see fit.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj161/nodrog1972/GordonHFCCCAresponsemain1a.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj161/nodrog1972/GordonHFCCCAmainresponse1b.jpg

 

Hope this will help you out.

Regards Gordon

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Gordon, my only concern with your letter is that you're chasing that Agreement, when it's actually in your interests for them not to find it. :cool:

 

Nevertheless, you've made it reasonably clear that what they have is unenforceable and (hopefully) this should stop them from playing silly bergers and passing the account over for litigation.

 

:)

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Hi P1,

I understand what your saying as i have the agreement ,BUT!, not as what is expected of them, there have been times where i've given pointers for them to chase knowing fine well they cant come up with the goods,and knowing their replys are bascially rubbish, as in the past, the info they have used not been truthfull, ie the info they have provided the FOS about me, and i send those pointers so that they reply accordingly, and as it has happens they are doing themselves no justice what so ever in their replies, as they are completely incorrect, so that leaves me to collect all of the info they send and have sent, to build a case which they can not get out of, i mean it is partly to do with them owing me £5000 in PPI, but i'd rather give them a big fight in order to discredit their way of doing buisness, in my case it's personal.

 

Thanks again for your outlook....i think most case's seek the same diligence, but the results can be for different reasons.

 

Kind Regards Gordon

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Hi Phatram,

Gather a copy of all the letters you have sent them regarding your request for your CCA, then also type up a letter stating that they have failed on your numerous requests, then go to John Antell barrister and download the Consumer Credit Act 1974, then look through it carefully (sections 77-79), then create your letter and also state that this letter is you final response to this saga, that they cannot alter/charge or display and penalty of any form while the account is in dispute,then as i said in previous threads,collate all your documentation including the final response that you have typed up, then forward all documentation to Trading Standards, The Commissioners Office, The office Of Fair Trading, and the Financial Ombudsman,(all recorded delivery) then sit and wait.

 

Regards Gordon

Hi Gordon,

the link doesn't work for me.

Regards

P

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Pretty irrelevent really - but just a quick question - why did you cca them in the first place?

 

and is there a template to cca a credit card company floating about please?

 

I ask because I am pretty disappointed with Marbles. I have had an account with them for about 7 years and had never missed a payment. I then ran into financial problems last year and Marbles were the only credit card to refuse a reduced rate with no interest until I was sorted. I was only paying 5% interest so I wasnt that bothered at the time. Then my interest rate went up to 19% (after the Balance Transfer Promotion finished) and now this month, they have put up my interest rate to 26.9% without even a please or a thank you from them. I was paying £105 a month but now this means I will only be paying £25 off a month. It still says on my statement that my credit limit is £8500 and I have available credit of over £4000 though although they have told me that I cannot use my card. They also screwed me for 5 * £12 late admin charges of which I managed to get 3 refunded ;)

 

Do I need to start a new thread - I wouldn't want to hijack this one :)

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and is there a template to cca a credit card company floating about please?

 

Letter N;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-bailiffs-advice/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

 

Do I need to start a new thread - I wouldn't want to hijack this one :)

 

Yes please;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

 

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Pretty irrelevent really - but just a quick question - why did you cca them in the first place?

 

and is there a template to cca a credit card company floating about please?

 

I ask because I am pretty disappointed with Marbles. I have had an account with them for about 7 years and had never missed a payment. I then ran into financial problems last year and Marbles were the only credit card to refuse a reduced rate with no interest until I was sorted. I was only paying 5% interest so I wasnt that bothered at the time. Then my interest rate went up to 19% (after the Balance Transfer Promotion finished) and now this month, they have put up my interest rate to 26.9% without even a please or a thank you from them. I was paying £105 a month but now this means I will only be paying £25 off a month. It still says on my statement that my credit limit is £8500 and I have available credit of over £4000 though although they have told me that I cannot use my card. They also screwed me for 5 * £12 late admin charges of which I managed to get 3 refunded ;)

 

Do I need to start a new thread - I wouldn't want to hijack this one :)

 

I CCA'd them for pretty much the same reasons you will be doing it.

But my problems with them only started after I claimed back charges.

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