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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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Advice when being banned


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The payment was not correct due to the OP swapping price tickets around to make the items cheaper. Beginning and end of story.

I know, OP mentioned they offered correct payment but TKMaxx refused to accept the difference between amount paid and amount payable (but retained shoes that OP had effectively partially paid for).

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They don't have to accept the difference at all, they have the option not to sell (but having said that they shouldn't have taken money and not provided goods)

BEFORE starting your claim read through the FAQ's and if there's something you aren't sure of then ask.

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Contents of my posts are purely my own personal opinions, some formed by personal experience and some from research. If in doubt seek qualified legal advice.

 

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What are your issues exactly, 2 threads in 2 different sections, slight varience on story http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-knowledge/120085-lara-blues-retail-loss.html :?: :?:

 

Hi Suzie,

First I wanted to know others opinions, as I said I am not British and now I know that I WRONLY thought that if I were, they would have dealt with me differently: Other staff making comments and mocking me, accussing me out of the blue of CREDIT CARD FRAUD, saying that I´ve done that before, etc. Having cleared that out, I was not familiar with these issues. I wanted to know also the legal implications of what happened but also I found very useful that some people expressed what it could have happened if:Arrested, Caution, etc. Which luckily didn´t. Secondly, I was concerned about the fine-payment to RLP; the store kept my money and the shoes. Trying to have some peace of mind, on Friday I asked my boyfriend to buy for me those shoes, they were still there with no tags at all, he went, asked the manager so now I have the receipt and the shoes, they can´t say they couldn´t sell them as a result of my actions and it is my way of making it up to them.Thirdly, Someone here suggested to post a thread to get advice on RLP which is a good idea because I will need to deal with them when I get the fine-letter. And last, I decided to post regarding the banning because I regret I can´t shop at Tk maxx anymore and wondered what if.

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Pretty straightforward Lara.

The offences that would have been applicable under the Theft act of 1968 /1978...are now contained within the fraud act which came into effect in 2006.

here are some points of the act.

 

 

The Act gives a statutory definition of the criminal offence of fraud defining it in three classes - fraud by false representation, fraud by failing to disclose information, and fraud by abuse of position. It provides that a person found guilty of fraud was liable to a fine or imprisonment for up to twelve months on summary conviction (six months in Northern Ireland), or a fine or imprisonment for up to ten years on conviction on indictment. This Act largely replaces the laws relating to obtaining property by deception, obtaining a pecuniary advantage and other offences that were created under the Theft Act 1978. These offences attracted much criticism for their complexity and difficulty in proving at court. Much of the Theft Act 1978 has been repealed, however, the offence of making off without payment, defined under section 3 has not been affected.

  • "Fraud by false representation" is defined by Section 2 of the Act as a case where a person makes "any representation as to fact or law ... express or implied" which they know to be untrue or misleading.

  • "Fraud by failing to disclose information" is defined by Section 3 of the Act as a case where a person fails to disclose any information to a third party when they are under a legal duty to disclose such information.

  • "Fraud by abuse of position" is defined by Section 4 of the Act as a case where a person occupies a position where they are expected to safeguard the financial interests of another person, and abuses that position; this includes cases where the abuse consisted of an omission rather than an overt act.

In all three classes of fraud, it requires that for an offence to have occurred, the person must have acted dishonestly and that they had to have acted with the intent of making a gain for themselves or anyone else, or inflicting a loss (or a risk of loss) on another.

 

Gain and loss

 

A "gain" or a "loss" is defined to consist only of a gain or a loss in money or property (including intangible property), but could be temporary or permanent. A "gain" could be construed as gaining by keeping their existing possessions, not just by obtaining new ones, and loss included losses of expected acquisitions, as well as losses of already-held property.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Thank you Martin,

 

If I was not arrested by the police, then, what is my situation here? Would you consider paying to RLP whatever fine they place me with? Should I write a letter to the General Store Manager apologizing and telling the whole situation, promise not to ever do it again? I´ve spent about 500gbp in less than a month in Tk maxx and I do have all my receipts. I know I have no right to change prices myself but in my experience with the shop, usually when asked for price clarifications they´ve always given me the most expensive option within the brand. e.g. There were lost of watches from Mango (brand), there was only a different one with black straps no price on it, as on other occassions when getting to the till assuming an itmen may be similar price as others there with the same-identical features, they always have given me a higher price and ended paying it. so I asked a sales assisstant to check the price for me, which she did and while the rest of the watches were 19.99 this one was according to her call to the manager 29.99. I told her I wouldn´t buy it and I didn´t, this was the same shop of the incident.

The day of the Incident which about two days after asking for the watch, I saw loads of the same black strap watches identical to the one I wanted, so I went to see the price on the tags, they all were 19.99! so when I went to the shoe department to look if they had the shoes, they were priced yes, but a lot more expensive than in the other tk maxx shop, so there I thought, if i ask they will just tell me "that" is the price and very wrongly decided to swap tags myself.Again should I write the General Store Manager explaining the whole situation or do you think it is pointless because what I did makes me a horrible person in the eyes of the fair and just and puts me in the same scale as the shoplifters or thieves when I´ve always been an honourable person to the people who have known me or met me, but what I did there errases everything I´ve always been and makes me a dirty **** thief?

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By the way I thought I should post this

The Fraud Act 2006 repealed the deception offences contained within the Theft Act 68 & 78.

 

Thanks to Paul from pinks for this info.

 

Thankyou to Martin (and Paul) for correcting me in in this issue. I have not served as a police officer since the new law came into force and was unaware of the change.

BEFORE starting your claim read through the FAQ's and if there's something you aren't sure of then ask.

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Contents of my posts are purely my own personal opinions, some formed by personal experience and some from research. If in doubt seek qualified legal advice.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

If someone could advice me please.

I am returning to my country and I still haven´t got RLP letter with the fine, I am stressing ´cause my close friends are moving out of the country as well and I won´t have anyone to send me whatever post I get. What should I do? Should I write tkmaxx telling them or RLP? Go to the police?Thank you in advanced.

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Thankyou to Martin (and Paul) for correcting me in in this issue. I have not served as a police officer since the new law came into force and was unaware of the change.

 

I am returning to my country and I still haven´t got RLP letter with the fine, I am stressing ´cause my close friends are moving out of the country as well and I won´t have anyone to send me whatever post I get. What should I do? Should I write tkmaxx telling them or RLP? Go to the police?Thank you in advanced.

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You were very very lucky in this situation, I have worked as Store Security in a Large Marks and Spencers outlet, and Have done CCTV Monitoring before, and you really were lucky that the police did not arrest you for this offence. I would just like to mention that you seem to keep playing the race thing too much, it had nothing to do with your race, just the fact that you were in fact stealing, whether or not you handed over money for the goods, it is stil infact stealing as you had changed the price tags to a lower price. Due to no action being taken by the police, The store should of however refunded you the money they took for the shoes if they were going to keep the shoes.

IMHO I do think you were very lucky that tk maxx only banned you from the store, In cases I have had to deal with similar to this, where people fraudulently pay for items for which they have 'marked down' per se, the police have always took action and the person was always charged and prosecuted, the only times when this was not the case was when there were minors involved. If I were you I would thank your lucky stars that the police did not take action.

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IMHO I do think you were very lucky that tk maxx only banned you from the store, In cases I have had to deal with similar to this, where people fraudulently pay for items for which they have 'marked down' per se, the police have always took action and the person was always charged and prosecuted, the only times when this was not the case was when there were minors involved. If I were you I would thank your lucky stars that the police did not take action.

 

Yes I am thankful and I will never do anything as such. The tag of a thief or criminal/fraudulent sound awful,and could have made me become a resented and just commit something worse since everyone already thinks I am a criminal and I felt back then as part of the underworld. Friends were very supportive and also reading about it on the net scared me but helped me a lot; I learned my lesson and the whole thing was traumatising. I must say the police were really nice when they came over to verify my address.

However the store did told me I should receive by post a fine given by Retail Loss Prevention which hasn´t happened yet and I am very worried because I am going back permanently to my country and do not know the consequences of ignoring RLP letters as I am guessing they will keep sending a letter over and over with a higher fine each time and then take court action?

Anyways as you said I ´ve been very lucky and I do not want a criminal or anything on my record.I was asking earlier what should I do then: write or call tk maxx and inform them I am going to live abroad, RLP or go to the police?

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But surely there is no loss now, the store have the goods plus the lower price you paid for them?

The above post constitutes my personal opinion on the facts in the post compared with my personal knowledge of the applicable legislation. I make no guarantees of its legal accuracy. If you are in doubt seek advice of a legal professional specialising in the area concerned.

 

If my post has helped you please click my scales!

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But surely there is no loss now, the store have the goods plus the lower price you paid for them?

 

Ok but, What do you think I should do? I am soon going back to my country. What if I get a RLP letter? I´ve read the case about debenhams and RLP with the niece wrongly accussed;my case is different but I do not have the time to wait and reply to letters. Then again, I ask anyone here, What should I do as I do not want a record on my name as a consequence of what this may bring?

 

 

Gertie, I have a moral and ethical problem as a result of this whole issue. I understand if this seems to cause you a problem or seems to make you sick. I have been sick because of this. So, I guess if this might upset you, remember is you, who decides what to read or not. Best of luck and sincerely hope you never do anything stupid in your life.

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Guest Gertie100

Lara - the point was that you did something that was not only stupid but what you knew was wrong! There is a big difference between asking for advise because of stupidity and coming on here asking for help to get away with something which is against the law!!!!

As pointed out earlier, you then tried to play the race card as if that extonerated you from blame!

 

I do stupid things every day of my life - I don't break the law every day and come on here asking how to get away it.

Perhaps the moral and ethical part should have come to the forefront prior to walking into TK Maxx?

And if you don't like my posts then perhaps you should stop reading.

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Much as I don't have any interest in doing so I am going to answer Lara's question. You only have a 'civil debt' to RLP for the cost of dealing with your actions. This is NOT a fine and is not a punishment of any form. I am certain that if RLP were going to they would have already been in contact. You are perfectlt safe to leave the country permanently and, if RLP wish to pursue you for the money they will have to follow the legal system of your country of origin which is VERY HIGHLY UNLIKELY.

 

I do note that you keep saying that your country of origin is not Britain (I think in every post) but you have neglected to tell us where you were actually born. I am of the belief that his is a spoof post as highlighted before

BEFORE starting your claim read through the FAQ's and if there's something you aren't sure of then ask.

If you win, donate to this site

Contents of my posts are purely my own personal opinions, some formed by personal experience and some from research. If in doubt seek qualified legal advice.

 

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Lara - the point was that you did something that was not only stupid but what you knew was wrong! There is a big difference between asking for advise because of stupidity and coming on here asking for help to get away with something which is against the law!!!!

As pointed out earlier, you then tried to play the race card as if that extonerated you from blame!

 

I do stupid things every day of my life - I don't break the law every day and come on here asking how to get away it.

Perhaps the moral and ethical part should have come to the forefront prior to walking into TK Maxx?

And if you don't like my posts then perhaps you should stop reading.

 

Gertie, I did not plan to change the price on the shoes prior walking into Tk maxx and I do not brake the law every day of my life. I´ve NEVER done anything before or after the incident and perhaps that´s why this hit me bad and scared me. You asked here if you were the only one with a problem with this threads. Why would I stop reading a thread I started?

 

I want to know what is the best way to deal with it legally because I am going back very soon to my country permanently. Easily I could choose to forget about it, I do not think I need to come back to the UK . The two police officers clearly told me in my house that police has now nothing to do with it and again they were very nice.Anyways sorry Gertie.

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No answer to me then Lara??

BEFORE starting your claim read through the FAQ's and if there's something you aren't sure of then ask.

If you win, donate to this site

Contents of my posts are purely my own personal opinions, some formed by personal experience and some from research. If in doubt seek qualified legal advice.

 

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Much as I don't have any interest in doing so I am going to answer Lara's question. You only have a 'civil debt' to RLP for the cost of dealing with your actions. This is NOT a fine and is not a punishment of any form. I am certain that if RLP were going to they would have already been in contact. You are perfectlt safe to leave the country permanently and, if RLP wish to pursue you for the money they will have to follow the legal system of your country of origin which is VERY HIGHLY UNLIKELY.

 

I do note that you keep saying that your country of origin is not Britain (I think in every post) but you have neglected to tell us where you were actually born. I am of the belief that his is a spoof post as highlighted before

 

 

Thanks for your reply Blueskies. This incident did happened, I am an international posgraduate student from Colombia. I have concluded my studies and returning to my permanent job back home.

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I'm agreeing with Bluey here, I'm afraid peeps - OP's syntax and spelling keeps changing in a way which appears to be inconsistent.

 

It almost seems as if someone is wanting advice after breaking the law or is wanting someone to play the race card - i would advise neither happens.

All help is merely my opinion only - please seek legal advice if you need to as I am only qualified in SEN law.

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I am wholeheartedly against racism of any form and, as the OP's question has been answered on this thread I see no reason for it to remain open other than to cajole racist comments from members. I am therefore closing the thread. If Lara wishes it reopened then if she could please PM me with a reason and I will do so.

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Contents of my posts are purely my own personal opinions, some formed by personal experience and some from research. If in doubt seek qualified legal advice.

 

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