Verbal Warning Based On Incorrect Information ??

[MollieMillie]

Hello

 

I will try to make this brief and I hope that somebody out there can give me some advice with regard to this matter. My Husband incurred a pulled muscle at work, he could not move the GP signed him off (first 7 days self certification followed by GP's certificate) he was due to go into Hospital at this time for an operation and did so, he was given certificates again by the Hospital and his GP. The sickness period lasted 5 1/2 weeks in total. He has also been ill earlier on in the year, the outcome of that being the operation. When he returned to work he was informed that he would have to attend a disciplinary meeting because of his sickness level. They calculate that he has been off 3 times in 6 months when in fact it is only 2. They allocated his holiday entitlement for him at the beginning of the year and initially said that during his sickness he had allocated holiday of 1 week making this sickness 2. He queried this and was given his Holiday back BUT they still claim this illness counts as 2 and have on the back of that given him a verbal warning.

 

Can they do that ?

 

I should say that he has experienced nothing but problems since joining this company and this final thing has really got to him. It is and has really stressed him out.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated

 

Mollie

[Ell-enn]

Hi Mollie, I assume your husband was told in the disciplinary that he had the right to appeal against the decision to issue a verbal warning? I would certainly advise him to appeal. Genuine sickness which is supported by a medical certificate, and especially hospitalisation, should certainly not be counted when considering any disciplinary action for absence.

 

I hear more and more these days of HR and managers enforcing absence policies inappropriately - when considering disciplinary action for absence each case should be investigated on its own merit and dealt with in a fair and "reasonable" manner. It's the word "reasonable" that some employers have difficulty with!! Please let me know if he is going to appeal.

 

Kind Regards

Ell-enn

If I have been helpful please feel free to tip my scales

[MollieMillie]

Hi Ell-enn

 

Thank you for such a quick response.

 

Yes he is going to appeal, the problem is that he has already had problems with them in the past when he told them he would be taking out a grievance procedure against them and things have gone from bad to worse since then.

 

I thought I was going crazy when I read the notes from his meeting, English is not my Husbands first language but he speaks it very well. I get the impression that they play on this rather when it suits them. Everytime he tried to explain to them that the illness was continuous even though it related to two seperate things they just slapped him down and said it still counts as two. He made it clear that he was not happy with the outcome and told them he intends to take it further.

 

Mollie

[Ell-enn]

Did he have anyone with him at the meeting? he should have been advised that he had the right to be accompanied. If possible, he should make sure he has an English speaking colleague or union rep with him at the appeal.

 

What kind of business does he work for?

 

Also, are you able to scan and post the notes from the meeting - you can PM them in the first instance if you'd rather they were private - we can update the post as we go along to let others have the information. When I've seen the notes I can write you some points to take to the appeal meeting if you like.

 

Kind Regards

Ell-enn

If I have been helpful please feel free to tip my scales

[MollieMillie]

Well, my Husband today asked to see the Store Manager to discuss an appeal. He was told nothing to appeal as nothing had been done even though he has the notes from the disciplinary meeting where it states he has been given and I quote an oral warning.

 

My Husband reiterated yet again that his sickness was unbroken and continous and was told that the system would be updated accordingly.

 

As I mentioned before it has been a pretty bumpy ride for my Husband in this job and we have kept notes of everything that has happened to him, including this fiasco, never know when we will need them in the future.

 

I also just wanted to say a very big thank you to Ell-enn who has been such a great help !! Thank You !!!

 

Mollie

[poppynurse]

I work for the NHS and have seen a big change in the way they are handling abscence. They are enforcing the attendance policy so if you are off sick more than a couple of times in a year they can discipline you for poor attendance regardless of whether it is genuine or not.

I went to a course called managing poor attendance recently and we were actively encouraged to discipline repeat 'offenders'. They quoted some tribunal law in which a claim for unfair dismissal had failed where a lady had been on a final warning for poor attendance, she had to achieve 95% attendance for 18 months, she was hit by a car a month before the end of the review period and was dismissed. The tribunal found that the dismissal was fair apparently because a 'reasonable' employer could have dismissed in these circumstances.

Seems harsh to me but I suppose employers need employees at work.

[diskmandave]

I know from the course that i'm attending at the moment that Tameside Metropolitan Borough Council currently operate a policy that if you're on holiday and then report sick whilst on holiday, they have systems in place to show that the employee is both on holiday and for the purpose of sickness monitoring that they are off sick too. :-?

 

Regards, Dave.

[Ell-enn]

Seems harsh to me but I suppose employers need employees at work.

 

Employers do need employees at work... but what they don't need is employees demoralised by unfair treatment when genuinely sick - it has a knock on effect throughout the workforce and usually results in a high turnover of staff.

 

Absence management policies should not be scripts, they need to be applied reasonably and each case treated individually (in an ideal world, of course!)