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    • no i meant the email from parcel2go which email address did they send it from and who signed it off (whos name is at the bottom)
    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.    Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.   The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved.  Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
    • It was all my own work based on my previous emails to P2G which Bank has seen.
    • I was referring to #415 where you wrote "I was forced to try to sell - and couldn't." . And nearer the start in #79 .. "I couldn't sell.  I had an incredibly valuable asset. Huge equity.  But the interest accrued / the property market suffered and I couldn't find a buyer even at a level just to clear the debt." In #194 you said you'd tried to sell for four years.  The reason for these points is that a lot of the claims against for example your surveyor, solicitor, broker, the lender and now the receiver are mainly founded in a belief that they should have been able to do something but did not. Things that might seem self evident to you but not necessarily to others. Pressing these claims may well need a bit more hard evidence, rather than an appeal to common sense. Can you show evidence of similar properties, with similar freehold issues, selling readily? And solid reasons why the lender should have been able to sell when you couldn't.
    • You can use a family's address.   The only caveat is for the final hearing you'd need to be there in person   HOWEVER i'd expect them to pay if its only £200 because costs of attending will be higher than that
  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Sytra v HSBC (Business Acc) ***WON***


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Hi, i thought i would post here and see if i can get any further help and advice on a claim i have with HSBC and their charges.

 

Got into a few difficulties back in July when business went belly up, ended up with charges being added on daily, asked HSBC in Aug for help but they said that there was nothing they could do but to go back in 3 months and ask again, meanwhile the charges are still piling up.

 

Anyway

 

Sent a prelim letter on 23 Oct for a refund on charges totalling £640 got a reply this morning (30th Oct) offering £145 as F & F

 

Obviously i dont want to accept this as it means that then i will still owe approx £800 and a big chunk of that is charges. Would it be unreasonable of me to write to them saying thanks blah blah but actually i wanted the full amount and see what they come back with if anything?

 

In the letter they sent it sounds as though they actually doubt their own charges as they say " I am however mindful of the management time and irrecoverable costs that may be incurred should this matter become protracted and for these commercial reasons alone and without any admission of liability whatsoever, i am prepared to make a F & F of £145"

 

they also say "if your request proceeds to court, we therefore believe that we would successfully resist any legal challenge brought against us"

 

It is prob just a standard letter but could just do with some more advice or opinions.

 

thanks for your help

 

Sytra

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Hi thanks for the reply

 

Do i just go straight for the court claim or should i show willing and give them a chance to "up" their offer?

 

i today recieved a letter from DCA Metropolitan who i think i read somewhere are the inhouse DCA for HSBC, in it they graciously offered to hold the account on abeyance for 2 weeks so i can prove that i have a dispute and forward it to themselves, if not they will pursue the debt in full with immediate effect as they are within their rights.

 

sytra

 

As the CAG clock has gone a bit haywire, ghost and gobblins took control I think (people seem to be posting in the future :confused: ) I thought that I would put your question aswell as my answer in the same post.

 

You can send HSBC a letter accepting their offer as part payment towards your total claim. IMHO though I did this and never heard from them again, so I would go for the court claim. You could state in your partial acceptance letter that if you do not receive a reply by xx.xx.xx you will pursue a claim through the courts. As for proving that the account is in dispute to the DCA, I think if you send to them copies of your letters that you sent to HSBC (prelim, LBA + their replies), I would have thought that that should be ok.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]If you think my post was helpful, please feel free to click my scales

 

 

A prudent question is one-half of wisdom.

 

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Hi just wondered if someone could cast their eye over this letter i intend to send to HSBC tomorrow.

 

in it i say that i will pay them £200 that is what we do actually owe on the account, the rest is charges, is this reasonable? i know they probably wont go for it but its worth a shot i thought.

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

Dear Ms Stokes,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER:

I acknowledge receipt of your letter dated 29th October 2007 offering a full & final offer of £145.00, however I will not be accepting that offer.

 

I now understand that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my business account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law and contrary to Statute.

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated the account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

 

I calculate that you have taken £640 in charges from my account.

 

I require repayment of this money. If you do not return it to me in full within 14 days, I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount, any extra charges added since my claim, plus interest, plus my costs, without further notice.

However I am prepared to offer you a Full and Final offer myself of £200, in return, I would like the account closed and any remaining balance cleared (including charges / Interest), if you would like to accept this offer then I will drop any action against yourselves on receipt of a statement showing the balance as zero and a letter of confirmation that the account is closed.

You have 7 days from the date of this letter to let me know of your intentions if I don’t here from you by then, I will have no other alternative but to continue with my claim.

Please accept this letter as formal notice of a dispute with this account, and I ask you to stop processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

Yours faithfully,

 

Sytra

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Hi Sytra, that looks like a great letter to me! As the oft case does not have a bearing on business claims and you have no other charges apart from those which make up the majority of your account balance, I think they would have to be crazy not to accept your offer!

 

 

.

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Hi Sytra, that looks like a great letter to me! As the oft case does not have a bearing on business claims and you have no other charges apart from those which make up the majority of your account balance, I think they would have to be crazy not to accept your offer!

 

 

..

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Hi Sytra, that looks like a great letter to me! As the oft case does not have a bearing on business claims and you have no other charges apart from those which make up the majority of your account balance, I think they would have to be crazy not to accept your offer!

 

 

..

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Hi thanks for the reply

 

Do i just go straight for the court claim or should i show willing and give them a chance to "up" their offer?

 

i today recieved a letter from DCA Metropolitan who i think i read somewhere are the inhouse DCA for HSBC, in it they graciously offered to hold the account on abeyance for 2 weeks so i can prove that i have a dispute and forward it to themselves, if not they will pursue the debt in full with immediate effect as they are within their rights.

 

sytra

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Hi Sytra, that looks like a great letter to me! As the oft case does not have a bearing on business claims and you have no other charges apart from those which make up the majority of your account balance, I think they would have to be crazy not to accept your offer!

 

 

..

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You have now said that three times now Freaky..lol Nope make that four times ;)

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]If you think my post was helpful, please feel free to click my scales

 

 

A prudent question is one-half of wisdom.

 

:D

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Hi Sytra, that looks like a great letter to me! As the oft case does not have a bearing on business claims and you have no other charges apart from those which make up the majority of your account balance, I think they would have to be crazy not to accept your offer!:D

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Thanks Freaky. I didn't even notice it until you pointed it out. what do you reckon on my new avatar? Have you looked at our special thread in the bear garden yet? I think that we can have some fun there.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]If you think my post was helpful, please feel free to click my scales

 

 

A prudent question is one-half of wisdom.

 

:D

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Just a thought, i was talking about this acc with my other half today and she said that she vaguely remembers me taking the wrong bank statement as ID she thinks i took hers instead of mine, this was before we were married so completely different name on it.

 

Would this have any bearing on the agreement? if so how would i found out what was used as ID?

 

if i send of for a CCA wont i just get the agreement and not copies of id used?

 

Would an appropiately worded Subject request work?

 

Then if it is a dodgy agreement at least i can have some bearing on the outcome of my case with HSBC and maybe persuade them to take my offer (or less if they p me off too much).

 

Any thoughts

 

Sytra

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Don't think proof of ID at the time you opened the account would have much baring on the claim. you have an account which is governed by a set of terms and conditions you agreed with the bank when you opened the account.

 

The consumer credit act doesn't have any baring on a current account because a current account is not a loan (credit) as such, the fact that it often has an overdraft facility from the bank unfortunately doesn't affect this so a CCA request could be refused by HSBC however they should provide a copy of your signed terms and conditions with your S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) information.

 

good luck with your claim and keep us posted

 

pete

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Don't think proof of ID at the time you opened the account would have much baring on the claim. you have an account which is governed by a set of terms and conditions you agreed with the bank when you opened the account.

 

i agree.

 

The consumer credit act doesn't have any baring on a current account because a current account is not a loan (credit) as such, the fact that it often has an overdraft facility from the bank unfortunately doesn't affect this so a CCA request could be refused by HSBC

 

Um... the CCA Regulates almost all consumer overdrafts. And a CCA will have a limited effect on such an agreement. the Consumer Credit Act 1974 doesn't regulate this overdraft, not because it is an overdraft, but because it was taken out for business (trade) purposes and was presumably entered into before the CCA 2006 came into force.

 

however they should provide a copy of your signed terms and conditions with your S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) information.

 

What kind of business was it? if a partnership or sole trader, a S.A.R. should work, however LTD companies are not data subjects for ther purposes of the data protection act 1998.

good luck with your claim and keep us posted

 

pete

..

i will be off site for the next month or so. if you have any problems, feel free to report the post so a moderator can help you.

 

I am not a qualified or practicing lawyer.

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Well they replied to my last letter........... but they are not going for it so looks like i have to take them to court....

 

Dont think they really read the letter properly, apparently my words were that the charges were irrecoverable.. and i asked for an increase in their offer (not in so many words) dont remember writing that...

 

Well till next time

 

Sytra

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can someone please tell me what the next step is, do i fill in a N1 is it? also does anyone have a copy of the POC i can copy?

 

i think i am going to be asking for a lot of help over the next few weeks, hopefully i can return the favours someday.

 

Thanks

 

Sytra

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[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]If you think my post was helpful, please feel free to click my scales

 

 

A prudent question is one-half of wisdom.

 

:D

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