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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Going for it to give boys a holiday hopefully


philiprose
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I have read everyone's messages and as a single father with 3 lads at home I thought I'd get the 6 yrs bank charges list from the Woolwich to give them a well earned holiday. To start with they tried to charge me £5 per statement x 12 months x 6 yrs or in short £360. As you can imagine that was out of my league but I knew I had been charged fortunes so I phoned back up and just asked for list of charges and not statements. I received these yesterday free of charge and all the charges (not including interest) comes to £6827.50.

 

I am going to use the letter another member of the forum used to request this money back WITH interest. I will send a copy of the spread sheet they sent me so they can't dispute the figures and wait for their reply. I will tell them I require repayment in full of this money. If you do not comply within 14 days then I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest at 8% plus my costs and without further notice.

 

As I'm not 100% sure of what I'm doing I'll be updating as soon as I receive a reply.

I have read that a small claims court is upto £5000 so what differences do I do as my claim is over that figure.

 

Good Luck All

 

Phil Rose

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Hi Phil,

 

I think you will require guidance from a mod as your claim exceeds the £5000 Small Claims Court limit.

 

Any mods available to advise please.

 

Good luck with your claim,

 

Baz.

Halifax - Won £425.00

American Express - Won £90.00

Woolwich Bank - Won £2280.00

Barclaycard - Won £558.00

Woolwich Bank - New claim for £723.00 entered.

Barclaycard - New claim for £236.00 entered

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You can split the claim to bring it below £5000.

 

Staring from 6 years ago add up the charges till they reach £5000ish and make your first claim for that.

 

When, and only when, that claim is settled make a new claim for the remainder,

which by then will probably have more charges to add to it.

 

Don't make 2 claims at the same time or they could be 'joined' and take the case out of the small claims

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Ok Michael will do, am just a bit worried when they (hopefully) settle, then they will get me to sign a document stating the payment closes the case and then they close my account. Could I still claim the other part of my money if the bank account is closed?

 

Cheers

Phil

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You only would only agree to a final settlement in relation to that particular claim and no other conditions.

 

Even if they close your account you can still pursue them for the rest.

 

When settling the first claim you can ask them to settle the 2nd at the same time. They might, butif they refuse, off you go again and this time you know exactly what you're doing.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I received spread sheet back and have split it into 2 parts.

Here is a copy of the letter I sent the bank:

 

Dear Sirs

 

Re Account Reference :xxxxxxxxxxx Account Number: xxxxxxxxxxx

Due to recent media coverage on bank charges I am now aware that you, The Woolwich, have been charging me, charges, that are contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Schedule 2 (e) of the said regulations gives a non-complete list of terms, which may be regarded as unfair, such as a term that requires me as a consumer who fails in his obligation, to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation.

 

I believe that your charges are disproportionately high and therefore they are contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Regulations 1999. In addition I believe that your charges are a Penalty. Penalty charges are irrecoverable at common law. The precedent for this was Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor co Ltd [1915] AC 79.along with Murray v. Leisure play [2005] EWCA Civ 963 It was held that a contractual party can only recover damages for an actual loss or liquidated losses. It is clear that your charges do not reflect any actual and or real loss.

 

Your charges appear to be nothing more than a profit-making scheme. Therefore I require you to refund my bank at a total of £4304.50 (plus interest @ 8% from the date the charges were taken from my account), representing the total, unlawful amount from 17.01.01 to 25.11.03 as per attached spread sheet (Details from your own staff). I hereby give you 14 days to refund the charges back on to my account. For the avoidance of doubt, if this is not done within 14 days, I will commence my claim in the courts without further warning. This action will inevitably involve you in additional costs.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

 

 

Mr Philip Rose

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I received letter back today, the usual sorry bla, bla, bla will sort out problem by 1st August. Tonight I will be writting up letter not accepting their timings but sticking with my 14days.

I will post copy on here and then start reading up the small claims pack I purchased off you.

Hope I'm still on the right tracks.

 

Phil

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Sounds like you've got it all under control.

Lloyds TSB - £972

S.A.R, prelim and LBA sent

Claim acknowledged

Defence received

AQ 20/06/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 20/07/06***

 

Woolwich - £2288

S.A.R, prelim and LBA sent.

Offered half

Moneyclaim filed online 02/08/06

Judgement filed online 23/08/06

WARRANT FILED ONLINE 30/08/06

MONEY RECEIVED BY BALIFF 04/10/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 09/10/06***

 

Smile - £175

Pelim 23/06/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 07/07/06***

 

My Ex vs Woolwich - £715

S.A.R sent 30/08/06

Pelim 06/10/06

LBA 20/10/06

 

Advice & opinions provided are personal, and not endorsed by CAG or BAG, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Hi,

The 14 days are up in a couple of days so here is a copy of my LBA. Hope it sounds ok. I will send it 1st class on 14th July and then on 28th starting court action.

I hope this time scale is correct because, like most on this site I haven't done anything like this before. Any way here is my LBA

 

Mr Philip Rose

xxxxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxx

14.07.2006

 

Michele Wallis,

Sales & Service Manager

Woolwich Openplan Customer Contact Centre,

Jackson House,

Clacton on Sea,

Essex,

CO15 1WH

 

 

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxx

 

I am very disappointed that you have failed constructively to respond to my letter of the 01.07.2006.

 

 

I now understand that the regime of 'fees' which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations.

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

 

I calculate that you have taken £4304.50 from my account from 17.01.01 to 25.11.03.

I am enclosing a copy of the schedule of the charges which I am claiming. I have already sent you a copy of this in my original letter of the 01.07.2006.

 

I require repayment in full of this money. If you do not comply fully within 14 days then I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest plus my costs and without further notice.

Furthermore, I shall submit a Consumer Credit Act 1974 complaint to the OFT upon the basis that you have failed to comply with the OFT's direction of 5 April 2006 and are therefore not a 'fit and proper person' to hold a consumer credit licence under the 1974 Act. If you do not understand what this means then seek advice from your legal department.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

 

 

Mr Philip Rose

In the meantime I have rec. another 4 bank charges because of bank charges being put on my account and back dated to the previous day so they can charge me again and again and again.

Thank you again for all your help and I will definately donate 5% of any refunds.

After this case I then have 2003 to date to claim which is another £3k now.

 

Phil

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Hi philiprose

I would edit your above posts removing personal details asap you've told everyone your account No and address:eek:

 

The court clerks are the best to talk to your may well be exempt from fees or may get them reduced

Lloyds TSB - N1 claim issued 18/07/06 - £3440 Offered unconditional settlement 23/08/06

Vodafone-Information Commisioner assessment -default removal -25/07/06

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I have had a look around the Threads (about an hour a night since I started) but I haven't found a spread sheet showing which banks have paid up, how long it took and which banks take the longest to settle before or after court action.

Is there such a page that I have missed?

 

Phil

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Also on the top of the screen there is a link to 'Bank Charges Survey Result'. However this is isn't a comprehensive list of results, but helps to give you an idea.

Lloyds TSB - £972

S.A.R, prelim and LBA sent

Claim acknowledged

Defence received

AQ 20/06/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 20/07/06***

 

Woolwich - £2288

S.A.R, prelim and LBA sent.

Offered half

Moneyclaim filed online 02/08/06

Judgement filed online 23/08/06

WARRANT FILED ONLINE 30/08/06

MONEY RECEIVED BY BALIFF 04/10/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 09/10/06***

 

Smile - £175

Pelim 23/06/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 07/07/06***

 

My Ex vs Woolwich - £715

S.A.R sent 30/08/06

Pelim 06/10/06

LBA 20/10/06

 

Advice & opinions provided are personal, and not endorsed by CAG or BAG, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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I received a letter from the Woolwich today stating 'In view of the complex nature of the issue you have raised, your complaint has now been escalated to our head office. All relevent documents have been forwarded etc etc etc.........snore, snore, snore.

 

So I take it now is the time for court (well Friday as thats the 14 days from LBA).

 

Hope I haven't missed out a stage on the way to getting this far.

I will let you know when I have completed the next stage.

 

Phil

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Best of luck. You are getting ever nearer to giving those boys a holiday x

Lloyds TSB - £972

S.A.R, prelim and LBA sent

Claim acknowledged

Defence received

AQ 20/06/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 20/07/06***

 

Woolwich - £2288

S.A.R, prelim and LBA sent.

Offered half

Moneyclaim filed online 02/08/06

Judgement filed online 23/08/06

WARRANT FILED ONLINE 30/08/06

MONEY RECEIVED BY BALIFF 04/10/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 09/10/06***

 

Smile - £175

Pelim 23/06/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 07/07/06***

 

My Ex vs Woolwich - £715

S.A.R sent 30/08/06

Pelim 06/10/06

LBA 20/10/06

 

Advice & opinions provided are personal, and not endorsed by CAG or BAG, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Phil

 

I am at a similar stage to you as my date for moneyclaim is tomorrow. I had the exact same letter last week from the Woolwich but I did notice it was actually a reply to my Prelimary Request as opposed to my LBA. We must be keeping them very busy.

 

So it's soon onto the moneyclaim stage and that's when it starts to get really interesting. No doubt they will decide to defend and I'm not too sure where it goes from there but I'm sure the board will be pointing us in the right direction.

 

Best of luck to you!

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  • 4 weeks later...

I was supposed to have filled my court application a couple of weeks ago but as I haven't had the £100 I have had to put it off until next week.

Is there a time scale that I have to adhere to as my 14 days from LBA has come, been and gone. It is only because I have struggled to find the £100 that I have delayed the court action.

In the meantime I have received a letter from Barclays offering £995 to settle. I would like to accept this as part payment until the rest of the claim is settled but I know they will withdraw the offer as soon as I refuse to accept it as full payment.

It is tempting to accept the £995 but I would rather struggle and find the £100 to start court action and get my full £4K (as I have another claim to start afterwards).

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