H Samuel Watch Repair

[Darkangelsdelite]

Just a bit of advice on this one please guys, its been a while since i worked in retail so just want to make sure I'm correct before I go and "have a discussion" with the store manager...

 

 

Try to keep this as brief as i can...

 

Mother in laws watch stopped bout a year ago. She'd taken it to a few places and all "fixed" it, but it kept stopping.

I took it to H Samuel on the off chance who sent it off the their repair shop and came back with a quote to fix it, which i duly accepted and paid, watch came back, all was jolly again.

Watch stopped again in jan, took it back to H Samuel who apologised and sent it off for free repair as was still under guarantee. Watch came back, they confirmed they had done a full service on it, new battery the works and was all guaranteed for 12 months again, was very happy.

Got a call from the mother in law last week who advised the watch has stopped yet again. Took it back again last week, was sent off to be repaired under guarantee again.

got a message on my answer phone today from the store manger who told me that the repairers have looked at the watch and the mechanism has rusted and its going to cost them £25 to repair which he would then have to pass on to me! Now as far as I'm concerned, this can only be down to some moisture or something getting into the watch, which would indicate that it wasn't sealed properly when they repaired it the last time so i dont see why i should have to fork out £25 for something thats not our fault.

Just wanted to know what your opinions on this are and if anyone has some advise on how to proceed.

 

Many Thanks

 

 

DA

[Bookworm]

There could be any amount of reasons why the mechanism is rusting, not all of them the repairer's fault. Your MIL could have forgotten to take it off when washing up, or got caught in heavy downpour, or a shock on the watch has ever so slightly move the glass, you name it. Unless the watch is waterproof (not water resistant), water ingress is likely to occur in a watch sooner or later, the older the watch, the highest the chance.

 

I think pay up or buy her a new watch. Once a watch starts letting humidity in, odds are that it'll happen again.

[skbuncks]

Hi DA

 

Unless the watch is waterproof (not water resistant), water ingress is likely to occur in a watch sooner or later, the older the watch, the highest the chance.

 

Sorry BW but Waterproof is now an illegal term since The International Organization for Standardization issued a standard for water resistant watches which prohibits the term waterproof to be used. Basically because nothing can be guaranteed to be 100% waterproof as the term would imply.

 

The watch is made water resistant by use of a gasket and a sealant applied to the case which forms a water tight seal.

When a watch is dismantled for repair ideally a new gasket should be fitted and a fresh coating of sealant applied, if this has not been done then it is likely the watch will leak.

 

Additionally as BW pointed out shocks or bangs to the watch can effect its water resistance or using it in conditions it is not designed for. Given the number of times its been in for repair im more inclined to think its to do with the gasket and sealant.

It may therefore be worth asking WH Samuel what a ‘full service’ entails and if the gasket has been replaced

 

The water resistance ratings on watches can be quite deceiving, for example a watch with a 50m rating can only be used while showering, bathing, dishwashing, and swimming in shallow water and not diving down to 50m as the rating would suggest.

This is because watches are pressure rated in STILL water, so if you could dive down to 50m without moving you would be ok, but as soon as you moved you would be subjecting the watch to higher pressure and thus causing it to leak.

 

The different water resistance ratings and what they actually mean are:

Water resistant - Will withstand splashes of water or rain but should not be worn while swimming or diving.

50 meter - Suitable while showering, bathing, dishwashing, and swimming in shallow water

100 meter - Suitable while swimming and snorkelling

150 meter - Suitable for general water sports and snorkelling

200 meter - Suitable for general water sports, including skin diving

Diver's 150 meter – Meets ISO standards for scuba diving

Diver’s 200 meter - Meets ISO standards for scuba diving

 

skb

[gyzmo]

Just how old is this watch and how much was it? This will help determine whether or not it conforms to the contract.

 

Secondly, you mention repairs done before you went to H Samuel. Could it be that one of these repairers have done something to it?

[Darkangelsdelite]

Been to the shop today and had a chat with the deputy manager (the manager isn't back til Thursday). She spoke to the repair company and they are saying that mechanism is rusty due to customer misuse and not due to faulty repairs. I agree with skb in that i don't think they have sealed the watch correctly when they did the service, but how can i prove it?

To answer gyzmo, the watch was a present to her from a friend a few years ago so i don't know how much it cost, its a solid gold sovereign watch, I've been told its worth a few hundred at least. Yes it is possible that the other repairers have done something too it, but you would have thought that when H Samuel did a full repair, they would have sorted out any faults as they were told the watch had stopped and were asked to fix it.

 

 

DA

[Bookworm]

Sorry BW but Waterproof is now an illegal term since The International Organization for Standardization issued a standard for water resistant watches which prohibits the term waterproof to be used.

I didn't know that, no. When did this happen? I'm sure I was buying watches still quite recently that were saying waterproof (although it could be my memory playing tricks). Don't apologise, always happy to learn something new!

[gyzmo]

Customer misuse? what - they think that you diddled about with one small component and left the rest of it alone? Erm, no.

 

If they are claiming misuse then I would expect there would be other problems - I cannot see why it should just be the one thing. If this component is rusting, then why isn't anything else? I know nothing about watches, so I could be comlpetely wrong on that but it certainly sounds strange to me.

 

my reason for asking those questions was to try and figure what you could be able to expect. Generally the older a product is the less you can expect in way of recompense. Generally though, the price and quality of the watch should give an indication as to what a reasonable person would expect in terms of durability and fitness for purpose.

 

You could argue a trade description given what skbuncks said, in which case contact Trading Standards (see if your local one has a drop in centre) or (shudder) call Consumer Direct and ask for it to be referred to Trading Standards.

 

If it comes to court though, you will want to decide whether the cost, time and effort (and your chances of winning) is worth the cost of the repair.

 

do keep us updated.

[skbuncks]

I didn't know that, no. When did this happen? I'm sure I was buying watches still quite recently that were saying waterproof (although it could be my memory playing tricks). Don't apologise, always happy to learn something new!

 

 

Not sure if its the right one but a quick look on ISO website gives:

Horology -- Water-resistant watches ISO 2281:1990 was released in 1990 (ISO 6425:1996 for divers watches)

 

Abstract:

Specifies the designation, requirements, test methods and marking for such watches with or without an additional indication of an overpressure. Watertight means intended for ordinary daily use during exercises under water for a short period under conditions where water pressure and temperature vary. Does not apply to diver's watches (on this see ISO 6425).

 

Im sure i've bought watches much more recent than this that said waterproof so it may well be that its not been that well enforced. First looked into it bought 2 years ago when I bought a watch for snorkelling in Oz that was 50m water resistant - it leaked at about 2m which is about as deep as my smoke ravaged lungs can take me before I come gasping up for air

 

Darkangel, exactly what kind of misuse are they claiming the watch has been subjected to??

If your mum has been scuba diving down to 200m and its only rated to 50m then fair play, but somehow I doubt this as any scuba diver worth his/her salt, ie is still alive, would use a proper diving watch. Other than that it is I believe upto them to prove that its been misused i.e visible signs of damage by being knocked, banged, trop upon or hit with a hammer etc. If they cant do that they're going to have to fix it IMHO.

Question is, is it worth the hassle?

 

skb

[ScarletPimpernel]

When I had a Breitling Aerospace I was quoted some ludicrous amount to change the battery. Apparently the high price is because Breitling's authorised service people guarantee that the watch will retain it's water-resistance. However, my local watchmaker was able to change battery and seal for very much less, and also test the water resistance; I gather that not all watch repairers do this automatically.

 

I wouldn't trust any of my watches to a high street jeweller; far better to find a watchmaker who you can deal with directly.

 

Now I have a Panerai, and am just saving up to get it serviced...

[Darkangelsdelite]

Just an update...

Went in today and spoke to the manager, explained that I wasn't happy that I'm being charged for something that should be covered under the guarantee.

I asked him for an explanation of what was carried out during a service and also for a copy of the companies T&C's (which I'm sure by rights they have to give me upon request). He disappeared out the back for 5 mins then came back and said he'd spoken to his head office and they had advised him to tell me they don't have any T&C's in store and for me to call them if i want anything explaining! I then muttered something about him having dubious parentage I walked out the store. So, my question now is, where do i go from here? At first this was about the money but I feel this is now a matter of principle.

Maybe its just me being soft but had happened whilst i was still in retail, i would have agreed to write off the charge this time but made it clear that if it happened again the charge would stand. But he's not even mentioned this to me.

 

Any Suggestions????

 

DA