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    • Well barristers would say that in the hope that motorists would go to them for advice -obviously paid advice.  The problem with appealing is at least twofold. 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver.  And in a lot of cases the last thing the keeper wants when they are also the driver is that the parking company knows that. It makes it so much easier for them as the majority  of Judges do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person for obvious reasons. Often they are not the same person especially when it is a family car where the husband, wife and children are all insured to drive the same car. On top of that  just about every person who has a valid insurance policy is able to drive another person's vehicle. So there are many possibilities and it should be up to the parking company to prove it to some extent.  Most parking company's do not accept appeals under virtually any circumstances. But insist that you carry on and appeal to their so called impartial jury who are often anything but impartial. By turning down that second appeal, many motorists pay up because they don't know enough about PoFA to argue with those decisions which brings us to the second problem. 2] the major parking companies are mostly unscrupulous, lying cheating scrotes. So when you appeal and your reasons look as if they would have merit in Court, they then go about  concocting a Witness Statement to debunk that challenge. We feel that by leaving what we think are the strongest arguments to our Member's Witness Statements, it leaves insufficient time to be thwarted with their lies etc. And when the motorists defence is good enough to win, it should win regardless of when it is first produced.   
    • S13 (2)The creditor may not exercise the right under paragraph 4 to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges specified in the notice to keeper if, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which that notice was given, the creditor is given— (a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (b)a copy of the hire agreement; and (c)a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement. As  Arval has complied with the above they cannot be pursued by EC----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- S14 [1]   the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer. (2)The conditions are that— (a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper; (b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed;  As ECP did not send copies of the documents to your company and they have given 28 days instead of 21 days they have failed to comply with  the Act so you and your Company are absolved from paying. That is not to say that they won't continue asking to be paid as they do not have the faintest idea how PoFA works. 
    • Euro have got a lot wrong and have failed to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4.  According to Section 13 after ECP have written to Arval they should then send a NTH to the Hirer  which they have done.This eliminates Arval from any further pursuit by ECP. When they wrote to your company they should have sent copies of everything that they asked Arval for. This is to prove that your company agree what happened on the day of the breach. If ECP then comply with the Act they are allowed to pursue the hirer. If they fail, to comply they cannot make the hirer pay. They can pursue until they are blue in the face but the Hirer is not lawfully required to pay them and if it went to Court ECP would lose. Your company could say who was driving but the only person that can be pursued is the Hirer, there does not appear to be an extension for a driver to be pursued. Even if there was, because ECP have failed miserably to comply with the Act  they still have no chance of winning in Court. Here are the relevant Hire sections from the Act below.
    • Thank-you FTMDave for your feedback. May I take this opportunity to say that after reading numerous threads to which you are a contributor, I have great admiration for you. You really do go above and beyond in your efforts to help other people. The time you put in to help, in particular with witness statements is incredible. I am also impressed by the way in which you will defer to others with more experience should there be a particular point that you are not 100% clear on and return with answers or advice that you have sought. I wish I had the ability to help others as you do. There is another forum expert that I must also thank for his time and patience answering my questions and allowing me to come to a “penny drops” moment on one particular issue. I believe he has helped me immensely to understand and to strengthen my own case. I shall not mention who it is here at the moment just in case he would rather I didn't but I greatly appreciate the time he took working through that issue with me. I spent 20+ years of working in an industry that rules and regulations had to be strictly adhered to, indeed, exams had to be taken in order that one had to become qualified in those rules and regulations in order to carry out the duties of the post. In a way, such things as PoFA 2012 are rules and regulations that are not completely alien to me. It has been very enjoyable for me to learn these regulations and the law surrounding them. I wish I had found this forum years ago. I admit that perhaps I had been too keen to express my opinions given that I am still in the learning process. After a suitable period in this industry I became Qualified to teach the rules and regulations and I always said to those I taught that there is no such thing as a stupid question. If opinions, theories and observations are put forward, discussion can take place and as long as the result is that the student is able to clearly see where they went wrong and got to that moment where the penny drops then that is a valuable learning experience. No matter how experienced one is, there is always something to learn and if I did not know the answer to a question, I would say, I don't know the answer to that question but I will go and find out what the answer is. In any posts I have made, I have stated, “unless I am wrong” or “as far as I can see” awaiting a response telling me what I got wrong, if it was wrong. If I am wrong I am only too happy to admit it and take it as a valuable learning experience. I take the point that perhaps I should not post on other peoples threads and I shall refrain from doing so going forward. 🤐 As alluded to, circumstances can change, FTMDave made the following point that it had been boasted that no Caggers, over two years, who had sent a PPC the wrong registration snotty letter, had even been taken to court, let alone lost a court hearing .... but now they have. I too used the word "seemed" because it is true, we haven't had all the details. After perusing this forum I believe certain advice changed here after the Beavis case, I could be wrong but that is what I seem to remember reading. Could it be that after winning the above case in question, a claimant could refer back to this case and claim that a defendant had not made use of the appeal process, therefore allowing the claimant to win? Again, in this instance only, I do not know what is to be gained by not making an appeal or concealing the identity of the driver, especially if it is later admitted that the defendant was the driver and was the one to input the incorrect VRN in error. So far no one has educated me as to the reason why. But, of course, when making an appeal, it should be worded carefully so that an error in the appeal process cannot be referred back to. I thought long and hard about whether or not to post here but I wanted to bring up this point for discussion. Yes, I admit I have limited knowledge, but does that mean I should have kept silent? After I posted that I moved away from this forum slightly to find other avenues to increase my knowledge. I bought a law book and am now following certain lawyers on Youtube in the hope of arming myself with enough ammunition to use in my own case. In one video titled “7 Reasons You Will LOSE Your Court Case (and how to avoid them)” by Black Belt Barrister I believe he makes my point by saying the following, and I quote: “If you ignore the complaint in the first instance and it does eventually end up in court then it's going to look bad that you didn't co-operate in the first place. The court is not going to look kindly on you simply ignoring the company and not, let's say, availing yourself of any kind of appeal opportunities, particularly if we are talking about parking charge notices and things like that.” This point makes me think that, it is not such a bizarre judgement in the end. Only in the case of having proof of payment and inputting an incorrect VRN .... could it be worthwhile making a carefully worded appeal in the first instance? .... If the appeal fails, depending on the reason, surely this could only help if it went to court? As always, any feedback gratefully received.
    • To which official body does one make a formal complaint about a LPA fixed charge receiver? Does one make a complaint first to the company employing the appointed individuals?    Or can one complain immediately to an official body, such as nara?    I've tried researching but there doesn't seem a very clear route on how to legally hold them to account for wrongful behaviour.  It seems frustratingly complicated because they are considered to be officers of the court and held in high esteem - and the borrower is deemed liable for their actions.  Yet what does the borrower do when disclosure shows clear evidence of wrong-doing? Does anyone have any pointers please?
  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
        • Thanks
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Westminster Housing Options – is it a sham? (Choice Based Lettings)


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After spending some time trying to get housed through Choice Based Lettings on medical grounds, and getting an unfair sense of things within the lettings (after I learnt my top-level Choice Based Lettings bids were not being honoured), me and friends started digging around a little deeper. And the results appear to be disturbing. While it is impossible to share all of our findings on a single forum post, I’ll share some examples. Any advice, opinions, suggestions, etc. are most welcome!

 

The Allocation Scheme states (s.2.7.8 and s.2.7.9):

 

"It is likely that Property Mobility Category 3 properties will be unsuitable for Mobility Category 1 and 2 applicants and that section 2.2.14 will apply. Subject to that, those in Mobility Category 1 will have priority over those in Mobility Category 2 and they will have priority over those in Mobility Category 3 who will have priority over those in Mobility Category 4.

 

When persons within the same Mobility Category bid for an advertised Mobility Category property, priority will depend upon who has the most points and, if equal, whose application is the earliest in time."

 

These rules set out in the Allocation Scheme are not being followed and properties are allocated purely on decisions of the lettings mangers. This is why when I placed my bid for a Mobility 3 property, I was not invited for viewing or contacted about the property despite being in position 2, with mobility 3 priority and 200 points. The property was allocated to a bidder with 150 points instead.

 

Lord Scott - Ahmad case (R Ahmad v LB Newham [2009] UKHL 14) – states:

 

"To allow the choice to depend upon the judgment of a Council official, or a committee of officials, no matter how experienced and well trained he, she or they might be, would lack transparency and be likely to lead to a plethora of costly litigation based on allegations of favouritism or discrimination."

 

We requested for bidding data under the Freedom of Information and we found that people with top priorities are waiting for many years while applicants with Mobility 4 priority and lower points can selectively get housed into Mobility 3 properties within as little as one month! See sample stats attached (go straight to page 2 of the attachment).

 

[to be continued...]

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A case study:

 

During 'Week 23' 15 flats in a new development (Lavington Buildings, Ogle Street, London) were advertised on the publically accessible flyer as available for bidding.

 

The one bedroom flat that was falsely advertised on the flyer on Tuesday 03/09/2013 onwards was supposed to be available for biddings on the Wednesday 04/09/2013 (biddings open up on Wednesdays). But while the flat was advertised on the flyer, the flat disappeared from the biddings system.

 

I phoned up about the flat and kicked up a bid of a fuss about it. I was then told the flat was withdrawn for a severe disability case surrounding a lady in a wheelchair. I did not believe the Council much as they clearly state no Mobility 1 or 2 properties suitable for wheelchair users will ever be advertised on Choice Based Lettings.

 

After raising a number of complaints, I found the property re-listed on the flyer on 02/10/2013 and it was now available for bidding on the Choice Based Lettings.

 

Amazingly, data received under the Freedom of Information unveiled that the property was in fact allocated to a Mobility 4 applicant (an applicant without mobility issues) who was on the Housing Register for 1 month; approved for the register on 04/09/2013 – one day after the flat was originally advertised on the flyer before it went missing on the biddings system. The winning applicant was technically in 37th position. This was a Mobility 3 property but was not allocated to any of the 11 Mobility 3 bidders. See bidding data attached ("bidding data - lavngton.pdf" page 1.

 

So far Westminster Council are failing to address this incident or my complaint about their failure to follow the allocation scheme in my Stage 2 complaints. I requested for an oral hearing but was told I cannot address the allocation scheme or my housing application (which is another interesting story!)

 

According to the data we received under the Freedom of Information, only flats 1, 2, 3, 5 and 9 of Lavington Buildings have been listed within the bidding data – that’s 5 flats of 15. Who knows what happened to the other 10 flats that were advertised on the flyer.

 

When I placed my bid for the one bedroom flat at Lavington Buildings, my bidding position was published for my attention on my biddings account - I was supposedly in position 16 out of 50.

 

However, when I received the bidding data I calculated my position in accordance to the rules set out in the Allocation Scheme and my position was actually 7! The Council had withheld my actual bidding position! When applicants think they are in position 2 or 3, they could actually be in position 1 and not even know about it. I think this is outrageous.

 

The system also shows estimate bidding positions, and obviously having inaccurately calculated estimate positions (estimate positions are calculated on the same principal as the actual bidding positions) it influences the actions of the bidder. IMO displayed bidding positions should be accurate.

Edited by HelloDarkWorld
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In addition to this it seems a bidding restriction can be placed/lifted on bidders as per and when Housing Options please without former announcement or reason.

 

There seems to be an immense amount of manipulation within lettings and information the Council provide to me as a bidder is frustratingly misleading.

 

They also have introduced a quota that allows only 4 medical priority applicants to get housed into one bed flats per year, meaning Category A waiting list is restricted from bidding. Although that is dubious as well as I was told 'Cat A does not exist'...

 

I was told I have to expect to wait 10+ years as a medical priority applicant. It seems even if I bid when the restrictions are lifted I have no chance of getting rehoused until the lettings managers decide to 'favour' me. Hmmmm... Seems odd to me..

 

Any comments? Thoughts on my posts above?

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  • 1 year later...
I have been having problems with Westminster Housing Options too. They are a bunch of idiots.

As the council has a duty to transparency, could you get a list of reasons for awarding each flat to the person who got it? Freedom of Information request?

 

You should be able to get information on how they allocate generally, but I should think individual cases would be covered by data protection.

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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"Some information may not be given to you because it is exempt, for example because it would unfairly reveal personal details about somebody else."

Are you referring to the above sentence? As you can see, it says it would be exempt only if "personal details" about someone else would be revealed.

As per my previous reply, I am suggesting editing out those details so that the reason for the council's decision would be known while no one would be identified.

They may argue that's not always possible and refuse your request, but that's just because they probably do not want you to know how they allocate their properties and try and use an ambiguity to their advantage.

I would think that if someone is determined to get such information, they could put an argument forward that if the data is sufficiently edited, then there would be no risk of ever identifying anyone. But then, the council might just edit it to the point that it becomes useless.

Basically, they are nasty (and possibly corrupt) characters.

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I can't find anything about quotas in the Housing Allocation Scheme, nor any discretion to ignore priorities in the bidding process. If they told you that they have such an internal policy, it's unlawful.

By law (the Housing Act), they must follow their Housing Allocation Scheme, once it's framed.

I can't remember which section of the Housing Act (latest version) it is, but it's definitely in there.

So, if you can prove that they have not been following it, you can take them to court.

Each time you bid for a property (i.e., once a week, presumably) and they decide who to allocate the property to, their decision can be challenged in the courts.

If you are on benefits, you can get legal aid for it.

Cuts to legal aid for challenging Local Authority decisions have been reversed after the goverment were defeated in the High Court in march this year.

Choose a firm of solicitors with a Public Law contract (check the Legal Aid website) and ask them if they can help you. It will throw Housing Options staff into disarray and they deserve the headache.

If you lose, you won't have to pay their legal costs (if you are getting legal aid) but the council will have to pay yours if they lose.

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Housing Act 1996 (As Amended), Part VI, Section 167 (Allocation in accordance with allocation scheme)

(8)A local housing authority shall not allocate housing accommodation except in accordance with their allocation scheme.

You can read the whole section 167 on this page (towards the end): www(dot)legislation(dot)gov(dot)uk/ukpga/1996/52/part/VI

Housing Options seem to be quite happy to act unlawfully in probably everything they do, but they don't have to get away with it. The courts can sort them out.

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I cannot give any advice by PM - If you provide a link to your Thread then I will be happy to offer advice there.

I advise to the best of my ability, but I am not a qualified professional, benefits lawyer nor Welfare Rights Adviser.

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