A veeeeery personal signature:jaw:

I will have to have a good think on what to sign as.....

was thinking along the lines "this not my signature - AKW"

as i suggested before, in general, if there is any concern about them lifting a sig then could just do a slightly varied one in a shaded box! if they did copy it, you would know, and then they would be in trouble! also, note that banks usually hold a copy sig on record/file anyway, so if they really wanted to physically hand copy it then they could try and do so from that. if they wanted to commit fraud/forgery?

imo

X is ok if you can prove the intention to sign

X is ok if you can prove the intention to sign

They are quite happy to accept a "tick" in a box as a signature, for online applications !

Hi guys

Just a quick update.....

Harwich Farrell\Robinson Way

Since they sent what the say is the CCA which was not, it was a "guaranteed Acceptance form" with my signature on and no prescribed terms and conditions, I sent them a letter previously posted in this thread disputing that was not an CCA

I have now received the following letter with little mention of last letter to them.....I'am right in saying this account should still be in dispute as they have not sent an correct CCA ?? and this is the there standard scare mongering letter

Can anyone advise next course of action....

Definitely still in dispute, still no CCA.

Brig

Definitely still in dispute, still no CCA.

Brig

thanks BRIG, I thought as much however....

was just about to compose a Account still dispute letter.....and received this today (a day after the last one)

can anyone advise the next move...

I cannot understand this response at all, will go back

through the threads tomorrow.

I cannot understand this response at all, will go back

through the threads tomorrow.

okay, once again thanks alot BRIG

What are they on about.. precribed terms are prescribed terms and cant simply be "changed" in respect of what has been spent ??

Ask them to clarify their statement and advise what legislation they are referring to that allows prescribed terms to be changed at will .. their will ??

My thinking is that prescribed terms in this instance

means making a least the minimum payment on

time each month which to me is fixed at what ever

the minimum is 2.5 or 5%

Hi guys

this is the response I intending to send ....can some have quick look make sure im not missing anything

Thank you for your response dated 26th August 2011 in reply to my letter of complaint which dated 04 August 2011, the contents of these letters has been noted.

 

In your last correspondence you make reference to “prescribed Terms” are “not Fixed as the account relates to a running credit agreement “can you please clarify that statement and what legislation you believe enforces your statement.

 

In my letter dated 04 August 2011 I brought to your attention that the document(s) you had provided purporting to be a true copy of the executed credit agreement for the above alleged account did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement did not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say none of the terms are present in the document

 

 

Since this document did not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required prescibed terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

As I’m sure you must realise the documentation you have sent does not conform to sections 60(1) and 61(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and would therefore only be enforceable by a court under s65. However, the absence of any prescribed terms means that a court would be prevented from enforcing it under s127(3).

 

I am granting to you a further 21 days to produce a copy of an executable agreement. After that I will consider that the above account is closed and that you will no longer pursue the alleged debt.

 

After this period you should close the file and cease processing any personal data relating to me on this matter.

Looks good to me but check date of complaint Nov 2011??

Hi guys just a Quick (non) update of sorts..

Harwich Farrelly

Since my last letter to them on the 4th August, asking them to produce the credit agreement and not the "Guaranteed Acceptance form" I have yet to receive any other correspondence

RBS

I received a another few documents from again a different department relating to calls which I assume are part of the SAR, non of which hold any relevance ....since their letter dated 8 August I have yet to received an invitation to collect my SAR from the local Branch as previously arrange...which im doubting will happen as they promised on the 8 august it would be within the 40 day Time frame

So should I just let these lie for now ?? or should I be chasing them ??

I'd let them chunter along at

their own speed.

Brig.

Are the 40 calendar days up for full compliance of your SAR?

as suggested before, if you feel that they have not sent you everything that they have, then complain to the cred that they have failed to send all data within 40 days, mentioning that you may complain to the ICO. if no satisfactory response then complain to the ICO.

could send rob way a custom 'dispute' letter that includes the 'doorstep' bit. mark it ftao compliance/complaints dept.

imo

There is no obligation to

supply the agreement with

a SAR.

There is no obligation to

supply the agreement with

a SAR.

disagree. if there is one on file then a copy should be supplied under a sar. it would be regarded as 'data' for the purposes of the dpa re a sar, just as letters are, and anything identifiable by reference. see their definition.

On numerous occasions companies

have informed and confirmed that

they are not obliged to supply a

copy of any agreement as the the

matter is covered by CCA 1974 ans

is entirely separate, some organisations

will supply the document others will not.

I confirmed this with the OFT some

years ag.

what the creditors say is not really applicable. it's what the law says. see the ICO/dpa definition of what personal data means. it is personal data if on file, which includes microfiche. yes, some will send a copy if there is one. some won't. yes, it is not a 'cca request' and should not be regarded as one. but, under the dpa, technically they are obliged to send a copy if there is one on file. that's why they do if they find a copy.

yes, there is the cca. and, some will supply a copy under a cca request and some won't. but, they usually do if they can find one! ironically, there is no obligation to send an actual copy under a cca request.

the ICO does not say it would be a cca request afaik. why not confirm it with the ICO?

ps can you post up what the oft said?

I will post up when I get home Wednesday/ Thursday, only

got my laptop here.

[ATTACH]30744[/ATTACH]

Hi guys

Thanks for the input, just to Clarify

SAR - This was for RBS as it was a bank account and is not covered by CCA (or so I beleive)

CCA - This was a CCA request for]Harwich Farrely\Robinson Way

I have just sent the following letter to Robinson Way as I was dealing with Harwich Farrelly but as the account is "in Dispute", I assume Im correct in saying they can't pass it or back to anyone

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

 

Account in Dispute - Section 10 Notice

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account No xxxyyyzzz

 

As you should be aware I have been in correspondence with your solicitors Harwich Farrely and that this Account remains in Dispute due to the Non-Compliance of the CCA, request, my last letter to Hawich Farrelly was Dated 04 August 2011, I assume as this account has now been passed back to Robinson Way they would forward all relevant correspondence regarding this account to yourself and that should have made you aware that this Account is in Dispute

 

As you have said “Account has been sent” to your office but as you should also be aware that because Harwich Farrelly are now in default of my Consumer Credit Act agreement request and have also breached *s10 Data Protection Act request , I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE.

 

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default enforcement action is NOT permitted, under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to the Harwich Farrelly for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as Robinson Way cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

 

If Robinson Way chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

Please be advised that I will only communicate with you in writing.

 

Furthermore, should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you, Robinson Way or Harwich Farrelly. Also note that whilst you have no agreement, and the fact that you are in clear breach of the OFT's guidelines on debt collection ,.

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so, then you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 10 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I therefore request a copy of your official complaints procedure which you are obliged to supply and will be requesting the same from Harwich Farrelly.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter and look forward to hearing from you, in writing within 10 days.