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    • S13 (2)The creditor may not exercise the right under paragraph 4 to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges specified in the notice to keeper if, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which that notice was given, the creditor is given— (a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (b)a copy of the hire agreement; and (c)a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement. As  Arval has complied with the above they cannot be pursued by EC----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- S14 [1]   the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer. (2)The conditions are that— (a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper; (b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed;  As ECP did not send copies of the documents to your company and they have given 28 days instead of 21 days they have failed to comply with  the Act so you and your Company are absolved from paying. That is not to say that they won't continue asking to be paid as they do not have the faintest idea how PoFA works. 
    • Euro have got a lot wrong and have failed to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4.  According to Section 13 after ECP have written to Arval they should then send a NTH to the Hirer  which they have done.This eliminates Arval from any further pursuit by ECP. When they wrote to your company they should have sent copies of everything that they asked Arval for. This is to prove that your company agree what happened on the day of the breach. If ECP then comply with the Act they are allowed to pursue the hirer. If they fail, to comply they cannot make the hirer pay. They can pursue until they are blue in the face but the Hirer is not lawfully required to pay them and if it went to Court ECP would lose. Your company could say who was driving but the only person that can be pursued is the Hirer, there does not appear to be an extension for a driver to be pursued. Even if there was, because ECP have failed miserably to comply with the Act  they still have no chance of winning in Court. Here are the relevant Hire sections from the Act below.
    • Thank-you FTMDave for your feedback. May I take this opportunity to say that after reading numerous threads to which you are a contributor, I have great admiration for you. You really do go above and beyond in your efforts to help other people. The time you put in to help, in particular with witness statements is incredible. I am also impressed by the way in which you will defer to others with more experience should there be a particular point that you are not 100% clear on and return with answers or advice that you have sought. I wish I had the ability to help others as you do. There is another forum expert that I must also thank for his time and patience answering my questions and allowing me to come to a “penny drops” moment on one particular issue. I believe he has helped me immensely to understand and to strengthen my own case. I shall not mention who it is here at the moment just in case he would rather I didn't but I greatly appreciate the time he took working through that issue with me. I spent 20+ years of working in an industry that rules and regulations had to be strictly adhered to, indeed, exams had to be taken in order that one had to become qualified in those rules and regulations in order to carry out the duties of the post. In a way, such things as PoFA 2012 are rules and regulations that are not completely alien to me. It has been very enjoyable for me to learn these regulations and the law surrounding them. I wish I had found this forum years ago. I admit that perhaps I had been too keen to express my opinions given that I am still in the learning process. After a suitable period in this industry I became Qualified to teach the rules and regulations and I always said to those I taught that there is no such thing as a stupid question. If opinions, theories and observations are put forward, discussion can take place and as long as the result is that the student is able to clearly see where they went wrong and got to that moment where the penny drops then that is a valuable learning experience. No matter how experienced one is, there is always something to learn and if I did not know the answer to a question, I would say, I don't know the answer to that question but I will go and find out what the answer is. In any posts I have made, I have stated, “unless I am wrong” or “as far as I can see” awaiting a response telling me what I got wrong, if it was wrong. If I am wrong I am only too happy to admit it and take it as a valuable learning experience. I take the point that perhaps I should not post on other peoples threads and I shall refrain from doing so going forward. 🤐 As alluded to, circumstances can change, FTMDave made the following point that it had been boasted that no Caggers, over two years, who had sent a PPC the wrong registration snotty letter, had even been taken to court, let alone lost a court hearing .... but now they have. I too used the word "seemed" because it is true, we haven't had all the details. After perusing this forum I believe certain advice changed here after the Beavis case, I could be wrong but that is what I seem to remember reading. Could it be that after winning the above case in question, a claimant could refer back to this case and claim that a defendant had not made use of the appeal process, therefore allowing the claimant to win? Again, in this instance only, I do not know what is to be gained by not making an appeal or concealing the identity of the driver, especially if it is later admitted that the defendant was the driver and was the one to input the incorrect VRN in error. So far no one has educated me as to the reason why. But, of course, when making an appeal, it should be worded carefully so that an error in the appeal process cannot be referred back to. I thought long and hard about whether or not to post here but I wanted to bring up this point for discussion. Yes, I admit I have limited knowledge, but does that mean I should have kept silent? After I posted that I moved away from this forum slightly to find other avenues to increase my knowledge. I bought a law book and am now following certain lawyers on Youtube in the hope of arming myself with enough ammunition to use in my own case. In one video titled “7 Reasons You Will LOSE Your Court Case (and how to avoid them)” by Black Belt Barrister I believe he makes my point by saying the following, and I quote: “If you ignore the complaint in the first instance and it does eventually end up in court then it's going to look bad that you didn't co-operate in the first place. The court is not going to look kindly on you simply ignoring the company and not, let's say, availing yourself of any kind of appeal opportunities, particularly if we are talking about parking charge notices and things like that.” This point makes me think that, it is not such a bizarre judgement in the end. Only in the case of having proof of payment and inputting an incorrect VRN .... could it be worthwhile making a carefully worded appeal in the first instance? .... If the appeal fails, depending on the reason, surely this could only help if it went to court? As always, any feedback gratefully received.
    • To which official body does one make a formal complaint about a LPA fixed charge receiver? Does one make a complaint first to the company employing the appointed individuals?    Or can one complain immediately to an official body, such as nara?    I've tried researching but there doesn't seem a very clear route on how to legally hold them to account for wrongful behaviour.  It seems frustratingly complicated because they are considered to be officers of the court and held in high esteem - and the borrower is deemed liable for their actions.  Yet what does the borrower do when disclosure shows clear evidence of wrong-doing? Does anyone have any pointers please?
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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UNPLANNED O/D FEES HELP(I'm from poland)


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I was in Poland recently and how I came back found letters from Lloyds TSB that they counted up me punishment. But I now that this punishmant is counted up when I have overdraf but may account balance he was positive, +few pound and the same day I paid in money and buy something on Ebay. But now (today) I checked my statement and I see that first I paid in money next bank he took 75Ł(unplanned o/d fees) but in the same day i buy and first check how much money I have. and I see now that bank he took me cash but transaction purshase she was realized 2 days later.I dont know what I must do now because I had not overdraf and I do not it intention to pay. What I can make because I do not want to have problems. I ask to write comprehensibly because I find more topic about this problem but I don't understand all. I think that this is different case because I had not overdraf:o

 

Thanks a lot

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Your case is no different to others. The bank have taken out charges on the day you deposited money to purchase goods from e-bay which will result in further charges.

The best plan for you would be to contact the bank and ask for the charges to be returned as when you bought the product from e-bay you made sure funds were available. Did the bank notify you in writing that the charges were to come out of your account on that day?

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He sended information that (You asked us to make a number of payments for you on 5th march 2008.we wanted to let you know that unfortunetly there was enough money in your accountto cover all of them.we have provided you with an unplanned overdraft to cover the payments we made) but why bank he took me 75Ł in the same day when I paid in cash in my account but i had money it was not debt.And when Paypal system he took mpney from my account (5th march) I had not already enough money.Bank sended me second message(letter)it seems me that reprimand.I think that bank he should to take this money when I would have debt but I had not. :confused:

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Really sorry but I cant quite understand exactly whats happened here but I would advise you to contact your bank and discuss this with them at the branch if possible, they have the ability to refund those charges.

 

 

If im right in reading this you are saying on the 5th March you paid in cash to cover these payments yet the bank are saying there was insufficient funds available and provided you with a temp overdraft then charged you £75 for it.

 

If so do you still have the payment slip when you deposited cash in that day, if so take this with you when you go to the bank.

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This is my statement ....look

 

 

Date Payment type Details Paid out Paid in Balance

 

14feb DEB Asda 1.40 3.20

 

25feb DEB Asda 1.38 1.91

 

3mar DEB payment 140

 

3mar CHG Unplanned 75.00 66.91

 

5mar DEB paypal 139.83 72.92DR

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In january a had 2 pound debt because i buy something but I did't know how much money I have. Sended me information about this debt and I paid in 30Ł and they returned me these 2Ł and Ihad balance 28Ł.Possible that about this.If so what I can make:(

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I go to the bank tomorrow but whot I mus to take with me(what documents)

whether I have to take with me confirmation purchace on ebay and that paymant in paypal?I have yet payment slip but what have payment slip when I deposited cash in that day?because I don"t understand all?

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Hi again. I was there yesterday and they said that me this annul but I have yet debt.I have go there once again? maybe I don't know mayby a bit this lasts? If I make a mistake ....improvements me. Thanks a lot for your help.

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