VANQUIS VS little old lady

[lollipop73]

Hi All,

 

Can I get some help with drafting a suitable get lost response to my Mum in Laws recent CCA.

 

 

They sent her

 

"a copy of the aplication form which would have been completed by you together with a copy of the terms and conditions referred to"

 

 

Obviously it`s not good enough and she will be disputing the account.

 

 

But she is recently widowed and practically penniless and very very worried.

 

 

She needs our help.

[lollipop73]

For some reason photbucket is having some maintenance issues so I can`t put up a copy of what they sent her,

 

however this is what I am sending for her in response-comments please.

 

 

Dear Sir / Madam,

Regarding my request for a true copy of the original signed Credit Agreement and its referred to terms and conditions.

Account in Dispute

 

I made a legal request for information under Sections 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The statutory fee of £1.00 was enclosed with my original request.

 

The Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Agreement Regulations1983 are very specific as to the form and content of a regulated agreement and a “sample” is insufficient.

Under the terms of the above ‘Act’, if a creditor has not complied within 12 working days of receipt of the above legal request the creditor is in default, rendering the alleged agreement unenforceable until the request is fully complied with, or by a court order-you are now in default and I thereby dispute the account.

As no such properly executed, enforceable agreement has yet been proven to exist, any attempt at serving default, or disclosure of my data to any third party, will have no legal standing, and will be vehemently challenged.

 

After seeking further advice, I now require you to reply with your final response to comply fully with my previous request. I am sure as a “responsible lender” you are cognizant of all the limitations and obligations now placed upon you.

 

Should your final response not comply with all statutory regulations and pertinent sections of the ‘Act’, and be a true signed original copy of the alleged executed agreement – I will be left to surmise that no regulated enforceable agreement exists between us.

 

Whilst this account is in dispute, and remains in default

You may;

 

•Not demand any payment on this account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

•Not add any further interest or charges to this account.

•Not disclose or pass on this account to any other party/agent.

•Not register any adverse payment history regarding this account with any Credit Reference Agency.

•Not issue a default notice related to this account.

 

The Consumer Credit Act 1974/2006 makes very clear that, a default may only be issued for breach of a regulated valid agreement. Further, that disclosure under the Data Protection Act is not, and can not be processed without express consent. This consent is expressly withdrawn until such time as a true copy of the alleged executed credit agreement is provided.

I await your final response to this complaint and would ask you include your proposed actions in the event that you are unable to comply fully with this final request and look forward to your comments regarding this letter.

[MARTIN3030]

Looks ok.

Just one point tho-You are demanding a "Final Response"

Under OFT and FSA guidelines,they have 8 weeks to investigate a complaint-although it does not detract from their failure to supply the docs in the timescale.

(They can still apply collection activity-up to one calendar month if they do supply) Just means that its not legally enforceable without a Court order.

 

My thoughts therefore is that they are not compelled to give you a final response inside the 8 weeks-but ARE required to give you a reply within 7 days stating what proposals they have to deal with your request or complaint.

Additionally they are required to tell you how their complaints procedures operate.

This is mandatory before FOS intervention.

[lollipop73]

I sent the letter last week so we`ll see what their response is, I`ll post it when it arrives.

 

 

Thankyou for your help on this, it is very distressing to see someone in this position, it`s ok for those who are "up for a fight", but she just isn`t.

[lollipop73]

Hi again,

 

sorry to offload so many at once, but can someone please have a look at these for her. As some of you know she is elderly and in need of a great deal of help.

 

 

 

 

We would be very grateful for any help offered.

[freakyleaky]

2 threads merged.

[lollipop73]

Thankyou, and sorry again.

[steven4064]

If the two bits are front amd back of the same document in real life, then it is probabaly enforceable as it has the debtor's signature on one side and the prescriobed terms on the other (at least it looks that way - it's a bit small to read clearly)

[lollipop73]

Its a sample agreement, so l presumed l needed to check they have the one she actually signed. It's actually addressed to Mr Sample.

 

How do l proceed in confirming they actually possess her agreement?

[steven4064]

You could write them a 'put up or shut up' letter - write and say that lol (little old lady) doesn't acknowledge any debt to them, that she requested a copy of her agreement and, although what they sent may well satisfy their obligations under s78 of the CCA 1974, it fallls a long way short of being an enforceable agreement as it doesn't have lol's signature nor the terms prescribed in schedule 6 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983. Tell them that lol is going to cease payments and that if she deon't receieve a copy of an enforceable greement within 2 weeks she will assume that is the end of the matter and that she will not hear from Vanquis again. Ever.

[lollipop73]

l certainly hope so, had another evening with her in tears worrying about all of this.

[lollipop73]

They don't hurry about stuff do they?

 

Got this back from them in response to my 2nd letter, and am now constructing my "put or shut up letter" as per advice.

 

 

 

lol is obviously now very concerned in case they have it-from some other threads it would seem that with some companies to sec 78 req them is practically useless, the SAR is ditto and the CPR is ditto-should they choose to stonewall people.

 

 

 

 

 

I am beginning to feel a little deflated tbh.

[MARTIN3030]

Its a wait and see situ.

Mine request was made in 2007 and I am still waiting-they havent even responded-just sold debt on to Cabot.

I have been waiting for Cabot to supply it for over a year now.Had so much on I havent done anything -account is on hold (they cant enforce it anyway)

 

Get the prove it letter sent off.

Whats the history of this account ?

Date opened....is it still with Vanquis...any charges...defaults etc etc ???????? any DCA activity ?

[lollipop73]

It's still with them, and other than a few pay us now letters that's all she has had other than this.

 

 

I am going to send them a nice letter giving them 21 days to send a copy of an agreement that links her to them, or we will assume they don't have one.

 

Tempting to write back and say-I look forward to reading the agreement once court proceedings have been issued.

 

 

I don't think thay have it, why go to all this trouble otherwise?

[MARTIN3030]

Yes you have the right idea.

I would be tempted to go one further;

 

In the event that Court proceedings will be a consideration from yourselves,I trust that you will be observing pre action protocols in supplying me with the information I have requested.

 

 

You can be assured that in the absence of your compliance to my requests, I will be seeking draft directions from the Court in any such actions,for full disclosure

 

 

Additionally,I reserve the right to make copies of all correspondence in relation to my requests to yourselves,available to the Court should it be needed.

 

 

 

For some reason I see a wall of silence about to evolve.

[lollipop73]

Letter off to them today.

 

It was daunting at first doing this for her, but it has given me some insight into credit card companies that is invaluable.

[MARTIN3030]

Good to hear it.

[lollipop73]

Hello,

 

It's been a while since anything of interest has occured.

 

They have now sent her a DN, (I know there is a way to read the barcodes on RM letters but it's greek to me)-dated 5th May 2009 with the date to act by being 24th May 2009.

 

 

Still no agreement.

 

 

Any suggestions?

[steven4064]

Sounds like a valid DN. At least it would be if they weren't in default of s78(6) of the CCA 1974

[lollipop73]

Currently trying to wrap my head round invalid DNs and their implication for the creditor.

 

Not sure if it is better to wait and wait until court comes round and just show them the dispute letter and proof of delivery, or come back at them straightaway with it.

[steven4064]

As I said, the DN sounds valid. However, if they haven't complied with a request under s78(1) of the CCA 1974, it is unlawful for them to have sent it (s78(6)).

[lollipop73]

I'm sorry Steven,

 

I didn't express myself properly.

 

I am looking at a few of her letters at the moment and got mixed up with another one-.

 

I meant, does the sample agreement comply with the CCA request? That would mean she is on a sticky wicket with this one and best to try to come to terms-which is unfortunate, as they haven't been particularly understanding in the past.

[steven4064]

The agreement in post #5 does comply with the s78 request AFAICS (it's a bit small) and, moreover, it looks enorceable

[lollipop73]

Come to terms with them it is then-thanks Steven.