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    • Thank-you dx, What you have written is certainly helpful to my understanding. The only thing I would say, what I found to be most worrying and led me to start this discussion is, I believe the judge did not merely admonish the defendant in the case in question, but used that point to dismiss the case in the claimants favour. To me, and I don't have your experience or knowledge, that is somewhat troubling. Again, the caveat being that we don't know exactly what went on but I think we can infer the reason for the judgement. Thank-you for your feedback. EDIT: I guess that the case I refer to is only one case and it may never happen again and the strategy not to appeal is still the best strategy even in this event, but I really did find the outcome of that case, not only extremely annoying but also worrying. Let's hope other judges are not quite so narrow minded and don't get fixated on one particular issue as FTMDave alluded to.
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    • the claimant in their WS can refer to whatever previous CC judgements they like, as we do in our WS's, but CC judgements do not set a legal precedence. however, they do often refer to judgements like Bevis, those cases do created a precedence as they were court of appeal rulings. as for if the defendant, prior to the raising of a claim, dobbed themselves in as the driver in writing during any appeal to the PPC, i don't think we've seen one case whereby the claimant referred to such in their WS.. ?? but they certainly typically include said appeal letters in their exhibits. i certainly dont think it's a good idea to 'remind' them of such at the defence stage, even if the defendant did admit such in a written appeal. i would further go as far to say, that could be even more damaging to the whole case than a judge admonishing a defendant for not appealing to the PPC in the 1st place. it sort of blows the defendant out the water before the judge reads anything else. dx  
    • Hi LFI, Your knowledge in this area is greater than I could possibly hope to have and as such I appreciate your feedback. I'm not sure that I agree the reason why a barrister would say that, only to get new customers, I'm sure he must have had professional experience in this area that qualifies him to make that point. 🙂 In your point 1 you mention: 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver. I understand the point you are making but I was referring to when the keeper is also the driver and admits it later and only in this circumstance, but I understand what you are saying. I take on board the issues you raise in point 2. Is it possible that a PPC (claimant) could refer back to the case above as proof that the motorist should have appealed, like they refer back to other cases? Thanks once again for the feedback.
    • Well barristers would say that in the hope that motorists would go to them for advice -obviously paid advice.  The problem with appealing is at least twofold. 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver.  And in a lot of cases the last thing the keeper wants when they are also the driver is that the parking company knows that. It makes it so much easier for them as the majority  of Judges do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person for obvious reasons. Often they are not the same person especially when it is a family car where the husband, wife and children are all insured to drive the same car. On top of that  just about every person who has a valid insurance policy is able to drive another person's vehicle. So there are many possibilities and it should be up to the parking company to prove it to some extent.  Most parking company's do not accept appeals under virtually any circumstances. But insist that you carry on and appeal to their so called impartial jury who are often anything but impartial. By turning down that second appeal, many motorists pay up because they don't know enough about PoFA to argue with those decisions which brings us to the second problem. 2] the major parking companies are mostly unscrupulous, lying cheating scrotes. So when you appeal and your reasons look as if they would have merit in Court, they then go about  concocting a Witness Statement to debunk that challenge. We feel that by leaving what we think are the strongest arguments to our Member's Witness Statements, it leaves insufficient time to be thwarted with their lies etc. And when the motorists defence is good enough to win, it should win regardless of when it is first produced.   
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Keeping livestock (sheep) for own consumption?


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I live in a rented house in rural Scotland and my girlfriend lives in a rented house just short of a mile away. She has an eight acre field attached to her house in which she keeps her horses. When I mentioned in passing that lamb was my favourite meat, I playfully suggested keeping a few sheep and, although she is a vegetarian, said she thought it would be a good idea. She has worked with horses for almost 40 years and says that they are good companions and one of her horses particularly likes having sheep around. There are sheep and cattle in nearby but not adjacent fields and poultry in a run in the same field.

 

The question is, what are the laws and regulations about keeping livestock for one's own consumption? I know that EU rules have nailed down virtually all traditional farming methods.

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  • 1 month later...

I am sorry to be so slow in replying Geronimo. :-( I missed this somehow.

 

The best way to go about it is to go to a farmers market and buy a couple of oprhaned lambs in spring time. You'll have to bottle feed them for a bit untill they can cope on their own. As long as your girlfriend's land isn't regestered for 'Single Farm Payment' you'll have no problems. Many small rural butchers do a 'At home' service.

The biggest problem I can see is if your girlfriend gets involved in the feeding you might be stuck with a couple of pets!!!!!

 

Lex

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Hello there.

 

Have you looked at the DEFRA website to see if there are any rules? I don't know if there are concessions for small flocks.

 

I agree with Mr Lex about the pet thing. I'm fish-etarian and I couldn't live with animals being reared for food.

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Thanks for the replies - I had forgotten about the question so it was a bit of a surprise to get the notification e-mail especially as my girlfriend just happened to be sitting next to me having called round with a computer problem.

 

I was concerned with the consequences of something like scrapie or foot and mouth and all the other boring stuff that would put me off from ever being a farmer - that's why I mentioned the livestock in nearby fields.

 

The ways around getting squeamish about eating your own livestock are not having so few that you identify closely with one or other of them and not giving them names. I have been offered a couple of my girlfriend's hens which have started uselessly laying their eggs in the woods instead of the henhouse but having named one of them Marilyn I can't bring myself to wring her neck - Sophia and Rita were had by either a buzzard or a fox and their replacements have not been officially named. I don't mind shooting rabbits with my air rifle and either eating them myself or feeding them to my girlfriend's dog or cats.

 

I'll look at the DEFRA website and the local butcher is quite friendly - so will think again about this.

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OK, having asked our Farm Manager, this is the best we can come up with!!

Get a couple of orphaned lambs from a local farmer. Rear them on. Send them off to the butcher when the farmer sends his in, no problem and no paperwork!!

 

Hope this helps,

 

Lex

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HERE and use the search option for all your searches. CAG earns a few pennies every time !!!

 

Please don't rush, take time to read these:-

 

 

&

 

 

This is always worth referring to

 

 

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by me are personal, are not endorsed by the Consumer Action Group or the Bank Action Group. Should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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  • 1 month later...

OK - maybe too late, but i hope you get a chance to read this!!

 

Firstly, before you even consider purchasing livestock - cows, sheep, pigs or goats etc for your field, that field must be registered with a County Parish Holding number - CPH which is available from DEFRA or Rural Payments Agency - whichever apply to your neck of the woods. Without this CPH number you will be breaking the law by bringing livestock onto the field.

 

Once you have a CPH number, you are free to purchase livestock, wherever and however you want. You must transport them in a manner suited to their status - i.e fully grown sheep in a trailer, orphan or cade lambs can be carried in a dog crate in the boot of a car.

 

If you go down the cade route, an average cade lamb must be kept with at least 3 others (if you dont want to use artificial heat to keep them warm) or at least one other if you use a heat lamp. You must keep more than one under animal welfare as they are a flock animal that feel security in numbers.

 

Once you have the said sheep on the land, you must ring your local council and ask for animal welfare and apply for a flock number. this is an individual number to you, and allows DEFRA to contact you in the event of any animal disease outbreak.

 

If you intend to slaughter the animal before its 12 months old, it requires one ear tag, which has to be fitted before you move it from its holding of birth, so in all fairness, this should already have been done for you. If you retain them for breeding, then the single tag must be replaced with a pair of RED (to indicate replacement) Electronic ID Tags.

 

When feeding cade lambs, they will require around 500ml of milk, at least four times a day, no need to feed after dark as they will sleep in the shed. They must have access to water and hay and will take hay from around 2 weeks old, but not be fully weaned until around 10 weeks. when weaned, feed them on starter pellets and allow access to the great outdoors, making sure they have adequate cover from rain and wind whilst outside.

 

DO NOT use cows milk replacer for sheep - its a lot cheaper but also contains copper which is toxic to lambs, fine for goats however.

 

When it comes to slaughtering them, you can perform a home slaughter, as long as all the meat arising from the slaughter is for your consumption only, and not given, traded or sold to anyone not directly resident in your house. If in doubt, take them to a registered abatoir, where for around a £10 each, they will slaughter them and provide you with a stamp on the carcass to prove it has been inspected and safe to eat. If you slaughter at home, you also have to follow certain rules and regulations regarding the disposal of blood, offal and organs you do not intend to eat - best to ring environmental health at the council for the specifics for your area.

 

If you are unfortunate to have a lamb die on you before you intended it, you are not allowed to bury it, it must go to a registered incineration plant and you will be asked to provide proof by DEFRA as you have to keep a flock book for 6 years showing what came and went from your field, and what medications etc they received during their lives

 

It all sounds too much, but its quite easy really, especially with only a couple of sheep - we raise around 40 - 50 cades every year, expecting to pay around £12 each for them from market and when they go off to market in the autumn we realise around 80 - 90£ each for them. they do make a profit!!

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Thank you for the comprehensive guide.

 

The practical stuff is interesting but unfortunately the bureaucracy conflicts so much with the philosophy behind the plan, i.e. to live outside the matrix, that I can't realistically see it happening. At least until the SHTF and all the DEFRA officials have more pressing things to occupy themselves.

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Geronimo

 

The red tape isnt that bad once you get used to it. In theory, the trouble you might fall into is once a year you need to return a "census" of your animals, which basically you photocopy your flock book and fire that over to them.

 

All they are really worried is that any coming and goings are accounted for. So, in ours for example, we record births , deaths and home slaughters. As for what happens to the arisings from the home slaughter - unless they are there on the day you do it, we just record "disposed off in accordance with regulations" the fact that you have probably fed the offal and bones to the dog, the sheepskins you have probably utilised yourself so really its only the head that needs to be disposed of properly, and a few wraps of a carrier bag and it goes off to the tip or you could find a secluded part of your holding and bury it!

 

Of course, this is all now illegal and do not follow my advice of course.......

 

If you just want a couple of sheep for the freezer, why not register a holding number - DONT put anything on the land, and just go to a market, buy some knackered sheep - usually marketed as cull ewes as they have had problems lambing this year so not wanted to breed from again - and transport them straight to an abattoir. Pick them up a day later and cut up at home? All above board and "the man" isnt on your back??

 

Not sure how it is in Scotland, but here in wales we (the collective we of the farmers and self supporters here) tend to do what we need to do to comply, but home slaughters are very common around here as are JCB's turning up in the middle of the night to bury the odd cattle carcass left over from the slaughter!

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