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    • Indians, traditionally known as avid savers, are now stashing away less money and borrowing more.View the full article
    • the claimant in their WS can refer to whatever previous CC judgements they like, as we do in our WS's, but CC judgements do not set a legal precedence. however, they do often refer to judgements like Bevis, those cases do created a precedence as they were court of appeal rulings. as for if the defendant, prior to the raising of a claim, dobbed themselves in as the driver in writing during any appeal to the PPC, i don't think we've seen one case whereby the claimant referred to such in their WS.. ?? but they certainly typically include said appeal letters in their exhibits. i certainly dont think it's a good idea to 'remind' them of such at the defence stage, even if the defendant did admit such in a written appeal. i would further go as far to say, that could be even more damaging to the whole case than a judge admonishing a defendant for not appealing to the PPC in the 1st place. it sort of blows the defendant out the water before the judge reads anything else. dx  
    • Hi LFI, Your knowledge in this area is greater than I could possibly hope to have and as such I appreciate your feedback. I'm not sure that I agree the reason why a barrister would say that, only to get new customers, I'm sure he must have had professional experience in this area that qualifies him to make that point. 🙂 In your point 1 you mention: 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver. I understand the point you are making but I was referring to when the keeper is also the driver and admits it later and only in this circumstance, but I understand what you are saying. I take on board the issues you raise in point 2. Is it possible that a PPC (claimant) could refer back to the case above as proof that the motorist should have appealed, like they refer back to other cases? Thanks once again for the feedback.
    • Well barristers would say that in the hope that motorists would go to them for advice -obviously paid advice.  The problem with appealing is at least twofold. 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver.  And in a lot of cases the last thing the keeper wants when they are also the driver is that the parking company knows that. It makes it so much easier for them as the majority  of Judges do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person for obvious reasons. Often they are not the same person especially when it is a family car where the husband, wife and children are all insured to drive the same car. On top of that  just about every person who has a valid insurance policy is able to drive another person's vehicle. So there are many possibilities and it should be up to the parking company to prove it to some extent.  Most parking company's do not accept appeals under virtually any circumstances. But insist that you carry on and appeal to their so called impartial jury who are often anything but impartial. By turning down that second appeal, many motorists pay up because they don't know enough about PoFA to argue with those decisions which brings us to the second problem. 2] the major parking companies are mostly unscrupulous, lying cheating scrotes. So when you appeal and your reasons look as if they would have merit in Court, they then go about  concocting a Witness Statement to debunk that challenge. We feel that by leaving what we think are the strongest arguments to our Member's Witness Statements, it leaves insufficient time to be thwarted with their lies etc. And when the motorists defence is good enough to win, it should win regardless of when it is first produced.   
    • S13 (2)The creditor may not exercise the right under paragraph 4 to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges specified in the notice to keeper if, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which that notice was given, the creditor is given— (a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (b)a copy of the hire agreement; and (c)a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement. As  Arval has complied with the above they cannot be pursued by EC----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- S14 [1]   the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer. (2)The conditions are that— (a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper; (b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed;  As ECP did not send copies of the documents to your company and they have given 28 days instead of 21 days they have failed to comply with  the Act so you and your Company are absolved from paying. That is not to say that they won't continue asking to be paid as they do not have the faintest idea how PoFA works. 
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What to do with SORN fine


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Hi, I have received a letter today which is a debt recovery notice for £80 for non payment of SORN declaration. It says I must pay the debt immediately otherwise legal action will commence and the car will be impounded. It also says I can end up with a minimum fine of £1000.

 

Here come the problems.

 

I now receive £55 per week Job Seekers Allowance, I have no assets or savings with which to pay the fine.

 

I don't have the car, it was stolen about 2 years ago and suffered major damage after it was crashed into a bridge, it was a write off and when it was recovered by a garage I couldn't pay their fine so didn't call them.

 

After getting on the property ladder for the first time I became the target of many crimes which destroyed my mental health, the worst of which was being burgled four times and my car being stolen. My car and house was damaged multiple times as well as being the victim of many incidents of antisocial behaviour. I now have massive debts, the house was eventually repossessed after I paid the 25 yr repayment mortgage for 3 years and I lost the £10k deposit I put down on the house after I was unable to work due to my health suffering through being the victim of endless crimes. I still owe £26k on the house and have total debts of around of £40k including the £7k loan I spent improving the house.

 

I couldn't claim on insurance for the car as I had left the keys in the door. I paid £460 for the car, the police gave me the number for the garage at the time and said the car had been severely smashed up when it hit a bridge and said I owed the garage about £270 for recovering the car. At the time my income was £40 a week income support, I had no way to pay the fine and no way to get to the car, it was found about 40 miles away in a different county. I did not call the garage as I didn't know how I would pay the fine. I presumed they had just declared it as scrap and got whatever they could off the car to try to get their money back for recovering it. I have never been able to afford to get back on the road again with another car.

 

My mental health is very poor, I think about suicide all the time, and would struggle to able to work, I am signed off sick by my doctor. I had everything going for me, and lost everything due to crime. One time I had no benefits or money for food and was refused a crisis loan so I threw away a lot of my stuff including all paperwork I had as I was prepared to end it all and still am.

 

What do I do? I have no car, no proof it was scrapped, no paperwork, no log book and am unable to pay the £80 fine they have issued me at my new address. I used to earn £600 per week, had my own car, home, now I have £55 a week to try and live off. Please somebody advise me the best course of action to take regarding this fine for non-SORN declaration.

 

Does anybody know any online competitions where the prize is a one-way plane ticket out of this country?

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As I only had third party insurance on the car, left the keys in the door and was not driving at the time, I was such a mess I didn't even contact the insurance company myself, nobody asked me for my insurance details. At the time I ended up in a terrible state due to everything that had happened, I used to shake uncontrollably and didn't live up to my responsibilities and just left everything as I couldn't cope whatsoever. As I left the keys in the door, the police told me that would invalidate an insurance claim as it was my own fault and I was responsible, I would just cower and cry for months on end in the corner of the room contemplating how best to kill myself, I did not care about anything. I didn't know how I would pay the £270 recovery fine and all the other bills and fines that were mounting, I just hid away from everything hoping it would all go away. The car was registered in my name, taxed and had third party insurance at the time. This happened about 2 years ago now and I have no paperwork anywhere.

 

In retrospect, I guess my main error then was not notifying the insurance company due to extremely poor mental health and hoping it would sort itself out. What do I do now? What is going to happen to me?

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Since the garage scrapped the car, they had a duty of care to report the car to the DVLA as scrapped. It might be worthwhile contacting them to ask why this had not been done. You need proof from them that the car has been scrapped and on what date.

 

With this, you'll probably get the fine waived.

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Hi, thanks for the replies.

 

I have no idea which garage took away my mashed up old car, it was very far away me.

 

Do you think the police would still have that information two years on if I asked them for it again? If I contact the garage they are probably going to fine me too for the recovery charges, but at least I won't end up at magistrates court for it and it will get DVLA off my back.

 

I have just read some interesting information on this page:

 

What to do if your vehicle is scrapped or written off : Directgov - Motoring

 

It says on a certificate of destruction the dvla is notified, it seems without a COD I am going to have to get a replacement registration document and then notify the DVLA that I no longer have ownership of the vehicle, the garage has probably scrapped it for spare parts without getting a certificate of destruction.

 

I will write to the police and see what information they have on their records and try to get a replacement v5 document. Apparently it costs £25 which is 50% of my weekly income. I may goto CAB for help once I get the replacement logbook and put a doctors letter in with it as well as whatever information I get from the police and the garage concerned.

 

Rip off Britain, too much yobbish behaviour from youths to try to make a living, I had more money the day I was born. The entire system works against you when you lose your mental health and just kicks you while you're down.

 

Thank you both for your help, I will try to do what I can.

Edited by inamess2
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This doesn't help your issue with a fine, but there is little point paying for a replacement V5C when all you wish to do is advise them of the vehicle's scrapping. WRITE to DVLA, stating that on XX date, the vehicle registration number XXXX was involved in an accident and was scrapped. You are therefore formally advising that the vehicle has been destroyed, and would like the DVLA to note this on their records.

 

There's a possibility that once this is processed, you might find that as their claim for tax comes after this, you'll be able to argue none is payable.

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  • 2 months later...

hi i have just been slapped with a 80 quid fine and dvla have never had my sorn form and they say if i have not recieved an acknowledgement letter its my fault im too busy to interact with them specially as i sent the form they blame the royal mail for not getting it so why cant i blame the royal mail for not getting their acknwledgment letter ! has anyone gone futher than this?

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