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    • Indians, traditionally known as avid savers, are now stashing away less money and borrowing more.View the full article
    • the claimant in their WS can refer to whatever previous CC judgements they like, as we do in our WS's, but CC judgements do not set a legal precedence. however, they do often refer to judgements like Bevis, those cases do created a precedence as they were court of appeal rulings. as for if the defendant, prior to the raising of a claim, dobbed themselves in as the driver in writing during any appeal to the PPC, i don't think we've seen one case whereby the claimant referred to such in their WS.. ?? but they certainly typically include said appeal letters in their exhibits. i certainly dont think it's a good idea to 'remind' them of such at the defence stage, even if the defendant did admit such in a written appeal. i would further go as far to say, that could be even more damaging to the whole case than a judge admonishing a defendant for not appealing to the PPC in the 1st place. it sort of blows the defendant out the water before the judge reads anything else. dx  
    • Hi LFI, Your knowledge in this area is greater than I could possibly hope to have and as such I appreciate your feedback. I'm not sure that I agree the reason why a barrister would say that, only to get new customers, I'm sure he must have had professional experience in this area that qualifies him to make that point. 🙂 In your point 1 you mention: 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver. I understand the point you are making but I was referring to when the keeper is also the driver and admits it later and only in this circumstance, but I understand what you are saying. I take on board the issues you raise in point 2. Is it possible that a PPC (claimant) could refer back to the case above as proof that the motorist should have appealed, like they refer back to other cases? Thanks once again for the feedback.
    • Well barristers would say that in the hope that motorists would go to them for advice -obviously paid advice.  The problem with appealing is at least twofold. 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver.  And in a lot of cases the last thing the keeper wants when they are also the driver is that the parking company knows that. It makes it so much easier for them as the majority  of Judges do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person for obvious reasons. Often they are not the same person especially when it is a family car where the husband, wife and children are all insured to drive the same car. On top of that  just about every person who has a valid insurance policy is able to drive another person's vehicle. So there are many possibilities and it should be up to the parking company to prove it to some extent.  Most parking company's do not accept appeals under virtually any circumstances. But insist that you carry on and appeal to their so called impartial jury who are often anything but impartial. By turning down that second appeal, many motorists pay up because they don't know enough about PoFA to argue with those decisions which brings us to the second problem. 2] the major parking companies are mostly unscrupulous, lying cheating scrotes. So when you appeal and your reasons look as if they would have merit in Court, they then go about  concocting a Witness Statement to debunk that challenge. We feel that by leaving what we think are the strongest arguments to our Member's Witness Statements, it leaves insufficient time to be thwarted with their lies etc. And when the motorists defence is good enough to win, it should win regardless of when it is first produced.   
    • S13 (2)The creditor may not exercise the right under paragraph 4 to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges specified in the notice to keeper if, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which that notice was given, the creditor is given— (a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (b)a copy of the hire agreement; and (c)a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement. As  Arval has complied with the above they cannot be pursued by EC----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- S14 [1]   the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer. (2)The conditions are that— (a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper; (b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed;  As ECP did not send copies of the documents to your company and they have given 28 days instead of 21 days they have failed to comply with  the Act so you and your Company are absolved from paying. That is not to say that they won't continue asking to be paid as they do not have the faintest idea how PoFA works. 
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Invoice for used van.


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Hi, This is my first post on this exellent forum.I bought a used van from a car sales place, the advert for the van on the car sales website,reeled of a load of specifications for the van which included Air conditioning, whist driving the van home (but thats another story) I switched the AC on but it did not work blowing air but not air conditioned air. I reported this to the car sales place but were told it would need regassing at my expence.

Told to read the invoice I had signed which states (I understandthat the seller of the vehicle takes no responsibilty for the working order of any sercurity devices which includes items such as Alarms, immobilisers, "RED KEYS", or stereros, and AIR CONDITIONING etc...) Surely this can not be right, this sounds like SOLD AS SEEN which I thought was illegal.

Can someone help with this as this is just the tip of the iceberg with this van.:mad:

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If the add said air con, then that must be deemed to mean working!

any qualification of sales is worthless unless it was part of the agreed terms of the sale, which you agreed to. unfortunately you signed the sales invoice which would make any claim a bit difficult!

this would not be applicable or have any validity to any aspect of the vehicles road worthyness though.

However I still think you have valid claim as it was advertised as having air conditioning and unless you were told it was not working before you paid for it. I would suggst you approach them on this basis and see where you get otherwise you would have to take them to court; maybe just worth getting done yourself, especially if the van was cheapish!

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You receive an invoice 'after' the sale so unless these specific points were brought to you attention at the time of purchase, they have no legal power.

 

Were you given the opportunity to read this invoice before purchase?

 

What is the 'etc;' after air conditioning?

Edited by Conniff
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You receive an invoice 'after' the sale so unless these specific points were brought to you attention at the time of purchase, they have no legal power.

 

Were you given the opportunity to read this invoice before purchase?

 

What is the 'etc;' after air conditioning?

 

Hi ,thats what the invoice states "air conditioning etc" No nothing was brought to my attention regarding faults I just signed maybe they thought I was a mind reader, because they also did not tell me the brakes were useless, a spanner warning light on the dashboard,black smoke emiting from the exhaust when i accelerate(I have had the van to a diagnostic center who informs me that the fuel injectors are failing and need replacing (hence black smoke)at a cost of £1400(ouch) they did not tell me about that either. I have taken the van back to garage twice to get these problems sorted out but they will do nothing about it. So what do I do now:???:

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There is only one thing you can do Kev - reject it under the sale of goods act.

 

No amount of words can be used to take away your rights under the soga, and an ambiguous statement such as 'etc;' (which could cover every single fault you can think of or which you complain of and they decide comes under 'etc;') cannot be used to limit those rights.

 

Only if they specifically brought to your attention a fault which you accepted or something they could not have known about, can it be discounted, but not for really obvious things that you should have noticed without being told.

 

It is illegal to emit black smoke, so the van is not fit for purpose.

 

When did you purchase the van?

How old is the MoT?

Were you given the 'advice' sheet with the MoT certificate?

 

You can only reject it in writing and must not use the van again.

Edited by Conniff
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There is only one thing you can do Kev - reject it under the sale of goods act.

 

No amount of words can be used to take away your rights under the soga, and an ambiguous statement such as 'etc;' (which could cover every single fault you can think of or which you complain of and they decide comes under 'etc;') cannot be used to limit those rights.

 

Only if they specifically brought to your attention a fault which you accepted or something they could not have known about, can it be discounted, but not for really obvious things that you should have noticed without being told.

 

It is illegal to emit black smoke, so the van is not fit for purpose.

 

When did you purchase the van?

How old is the MoT?

Were you given the 'advice' sheet with the MoT certificate?

 

You can only reject it in writing and must not use the van again.

Hi, Thanks for that, I bought the van 21-6-08,A mot was carried out on the van 14-6-08 also a brake test result test sheet, and a Exhaust emission test result sheet passing the van with no advisory comments on the mot (which I find rather suspicious) the car sales center I bought the van from send all their vehicles to this Mot garage. I have contacted my local Trading standards office who sent the car sales center a letter with my concerns, they said I should take the van to the the garage who carried out the mot, which I am reluctant to do that bearing in mind this is the garage who passed the van with flying colours. I have taken the van to a Bosch OFT garage to have diagnostic carried out, who high lighted various problems, I am self employed so I need to use the van to carry out my daily business no van no work no income.I sent a strong worded email to the car sales center on Friday (no reply as yet if ever) informing them I be shall visiting my local citizens advice center to see were I stand legally, do you think I have have a watertight case?

Regards Kevin.

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Yes if you reject it undr SOGA, stating why etc. and ask for all monies to be refunded, This must be done in writing and you must not use it as you would be compromising the reason why you are asking for your money back; i.e. not fit and faulty, dangerous - no brakes!

I trust it was a cash sale no hp involved etc.

Youmay end up having to take them to court, how much is involved?

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Yes if you reject it undr SOGA, stating why etc. and ask for all monies to be refunded, This must be done in writing and you must not use it as you would be compromising the reason why you are asking for your money back; i.e. not fit and faulty, dangerous - no brakes!

I trust it was a cash sale no hp involved etc.

Youmay end up having to take them to court, how much is involved?

Hi, because the brakes were so poor, this was disbuted by central car sales (well they must be they gave me a certificate to say they had passed) I replaced the front brakes and cleaned up the back ones, brakes are now ok.I was starting to bite the bullet not knowing the legal issues involved or where I stood hence my questions on here, the van cost me approx £4500 cash. So far it has cost me approaching £1000 with diagnostic checks (another thing central car sales would not accept from a registerd Bosch OFT garage findings)parts/labour and loss of earnings,

the potential bill to replace the fuel injectors (hence black smoke from exhaust) of £1400 is really the last straw and I want all my money back.

Forgive my niaivety in what I should have done and what I should do, but I am just a ordinary working man who just wanted a van to carry out my business. So now what do I send Central Car Sales a letter under SOGA or do I go down the citizens advice road, which will carry the most clout.The only problem I have got now is still the black smoke (another certificate to say it passed its emmision test) £1400 would just about wipe me out.

Oh by the way why did my trading standards not advise me about SOGA when I first contacted them?

Kevin

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I think your working on the van Kev will reduce or nullify your chances of rejection, it's not the same van they sold you, and as you have done work on it, they could even go as far as to say you caused the other problems as it was ok when you bought it and the MoT will show that.

 

I think the best we can hope for now is a repair.

 

Did the diagnostic garage do an emmission check and was it out of spec?

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Agree with Coniff, If emmissions illegal and should not be on the road then the dealer must put it right at no cost to you.

Under SOGA not fit for purpose, write to them and give them 7 days to respond and if they refuse or dont respond you will get work done elswhere and take them to court for the cost.

If you reject the vehicle on the emmissions faiure ( probably sufficient grounds on its own ) you will have stop using it and may take some time to get it resovled, so you will be without a van.

So its up to you. You can report them to trading standards, may help.

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