Hearing to remove stay

[Penfold92]

What I want to know is if I can apply to set aside the Order to get another hearing date?

 

I am still shocked that I put in a two page letter directly to the Court to say they have not contacted me and to reiterate why the stay should be set aside. The bank does not call and the judge thinks "ok so we'll let them have another crack at it in a few months..."

 

I said in the letter that if he sets the stay aside the hearing date would be past the test case anyway so he has nothing to lose, but we are at the front end rather than playing catch up...

 

Really annoyed...STILL...

 

LOL

 

Penfold

[johnnymitch]

Hi Prabs,

 

This is why Auburn (audreygreeneyes) was so incensed when it happpened to her - she nearly spontaneously combusted - the court was ignoring it's own CPRs (court procedural rules) which worked to the advantage of the banks.........................

[Penfold92]

LOL love the animation Johnny!!!

[johnnymitch]

Courtesy of Photobucket , Prabs!

[Castlebest]

My only thought was your Judge wants to get someone from the bank into a court room to give them a rollicking before he kicks out the defense, but its just a thought

 

stick with it prabs

 

pete

[Penfold92]

Oh Pete,

 

I really really hope so...But somehow think this is another fob off and the Court can avoid any extra agro by letting time slip away. I will not be forgetting this breach don't worry. I will post the full order when I get it in next few days I hope so we can rip it apart for positives...

 

Penfold

[johnnymitch]

I will post the full order when I get it in next few days I hope so we can rip it apart for positives...

 

Pete is definitely your man for that, penfold, - if it's there, he'll find it......

btw thanks for the tip............

[Penfold92]

NP mate

[Penfold92]

Ok now to make some real money....

 

As many of you are aware I am claiming against Nasty West for breaches of CCA and asking the court to class the relationships as unfair etc etc. But forget that right now...

 

I just got another letter from the Bank itself stating the 3 account numbers and brief details on each account. Now for the killer point - "Please find enclosed a further copy of the document which was sent to you in March 2007. Statements will be sent to you within 14 days"

 

Ok I hear you say what is the big deal there....Well....

 

This accounts were opened in 1995 October so that is over 12 Years ago...

 

So they can save a £5000 court case by providing me with statements going back 12 years...

 

I wonder how much a national newspaper would pay for this letter combined with the statements showing that the banks have lied to us the consumer yet once again and we can claim back further than we all thought...more than £5000? How about £50,000 or more even...How much would that we worth to all the people claiming right now or that had claimed before...silly banks...

 

Am I dreaming? Not sure I am....

 

Views please...

 

Penfold

[jowalshy]

So what I can make out is that Natwest have said in writing that they are going to produce statements to you going back to 1995.

 

I think that we all know that, if pushed, the banks can produce statements going back many many years, but unfortunately, I think, they hide behind the limitations thing.

 

Personally I would wait and see if they do produce the goods, that way you have a letter in your possesion together with hard facts that they have indeed produced the info.

 

Thats my opinion. Someone else may have a different view.

 

Pete? Freaky? PD? Johnny? Aud's?

[Audreygreeneyes]

IMHO firstly you are not 100% clear in your wording, have the put clearly in writing they hold statements going back till the account was opened?

 

If they have then I coudl be asking for copies of them now , as they shoudl be covered under the S.A.R....... but some of the others will correctme if I am wrong.........

 

if they are and they have not supplied them, then you have them for failure to comply !!

 

my next move before I did anything was get the copies, there is a very real chance that the bank could and would claim they had made an error and did not in actual fact have them!!! and then you are snookered......

 

the only other thing I can see is that the other banks may very well claim, that is not our procedure, proving they all operate the same might be very difficult.....

 

if it was me I would be pushing for copies of the statements refered to and going after them under the SAR rules if they have not fully complied.........

 

Auds:)

[Penfold92]

HI Auds,

 

I am not after bank charges, although this could be looked into once I get the statements. The issue is the value of have a bank admit they have records going back 12-15 years and the statements to show this fact...

 

Would it be worth something?

 

Penfold

[Audreygreeneyes]

I am slightly confused............lol. no surprise there then........ if you are not after the charges, erm why the interest in the statements?

 

Yes this maybe of interest but again the banks could claim that each individual bank operates a different policy.........

[Penfold92]

I am slightly confused............lol. no surprise there then........ if you are not after the charges, erm why the interest in the statements?

 

Yes this maybe of interest but again the banks could claim that each individual bank operates a different policy.........

 

 

I am taking them to court for breaches of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 where whin 12 days plus 30 they must supply a true copy of the original agreemtent and other things or else the creditor has committed a summary offence under the Act.

 

Now if they produce the statements at this late stage I am worried this will partially blow my case out of the water. I am therefore looking for a back up plan to "pursuade" them not to produce or use these statements by threathening to publisise the fact that Nat West have the ability to go back 12-15 years and maybe even more...

 

Now do you think they should pay me the £5k I am asking for or risk 20 million customers asking for statements going back 12-15 years...That is my chain of thought...Hence me asking and being interested or not as the case may be in them producing the statements...

 

Penfold

[Castlebest]

Hiya prabs, I think as Aud's says they will find 1001 excuses why they can suddenly find your statements but have destroyed everyone elses .

 

If your going after them using the CCA the statements will only be a minor part of this, the main thing is the true copy of your credit agreement which if they haven't produced after 12 days plus 30 days means they are committing a statutory criminal offense.

 

If they now start to find documentation I would look at it very closely, are they copies or reproductions? if they are true copies (or even true reproductions) you can always go back to plan A and claim your charges.

 

pete

[Penfold92]

Yup, your prob right Pete, I think it could be another fob off anyway. Woolwich fobbed me off all the way till two days before the court hearing then settled, so this could be a similar thing. I should forget the statements (for now) and concentrate on "where's the overdraft agreements?" this does not comply etc...

 

And they should see sense, then offer the info I have discovered up to the highest bidder...LOL you're right about the excuses, however, it would be fun to hear the spin on it...Mr. Penfold's case was just a lucky chance that we kept these records of a dead account for so long...

 

Penfold

[Penfold92]

Back to HSBC again...

 

I have heard from teh court the telephone hearing has been relisted for ....21st April 2008 and it is still a telephone hearing...this is just not fair, how can I appeal this or can i?

 

My application and the defence does not show, surely this is not in line with the CPR's and overriding objective.

 

Can I write to the court or something?

 

Penfold

[Castlebest]

you can but you will be comming very close to questioning a judge's judgment, this would have to be reviewed by another judge and you could possibly end up with a hearing to hear your complaint which if your lucky will be your April date.

 

we have seen by all of the court reaction stay appeals to date the judges just want this to go away even when there is evidence of abuse of process, I think with the test case starting next week you might be better waiting to see what happens.

 

pete

[johnnymitch]

by castlebest: we have seen by all of the court reaction stay appeals to date the judges just want this to go away even when there is evidence of abuse of process, I think with the test case starting next week you might be better waiting to see what happens.

 

I would agree with pete on this one penfold. as blatant example of what he's saying, look at:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/cases-stayed-pending-oft/113441-judge-stayed-case-but-new-post.html

 

It's a hiding to nothing whichever way you go at the moment:mad:

[Penfold92]

So guys we sit and wait for what exactly? The test case goes one way or hte otehr, but whichever way it goes the the loser will appeal and our cases will just remain stayed...

 

OK, but this time I will write to DG and ensure they arrange the telelphone hearing, unless I write to the court to ask for this to be a physical hearing? Can that be done?

 

Penfold

[Castlebest]

If you read a lot of the judgments that have been handed down following appeal hearings (particularly Carlisle v Clydesdale) the review dates for the stays have been set for a period (typically 28 days) after the test case first instance judgment.

 

HH Judge Behrens (Carlisle v Clydesdale)

 

I take the view that the stay should only extend until the first instance decision of Mr Justice David Steel. It may be that there are appeals following the decision at first instance, but it does not, to my mind, at all follow that the mere fact that there is an appeal justifies a stay in other cases. I am not saying that if there are to be appeals that the court may not at a future stage think it appropriate to extend the stay, but in my view, at the moment there should only be a stay until after the end of the initial proceedings. I also take the view, because not everybody may be fully informed of the proceedings, that there should be a further case management conference in all of these cases within 28 days of the outcome of proceedings. hat seems to me to be the first term or length of the stay.

 

I read that to mean there may be a way forward at that time and the appeals may not have any effect on our claims.

 

As for the type of hearing you have I don't see why you shouldn't ask for a court hearing, the bank have now twice abused the telephone hearing, you can only ask .

 

pete

[Penfold92]

As for the type of hearing you have I don't see why you shouldn't ask for a court hearing, the bank have now twice abused the telephone hearing, you can only ask .

pete

 

 

Hi Pete,

 

I take your point, but, and I know it is only a but, but what happens if they don't organise the next one either? Am I not inthe same position yet again and waiting another 3 months for another hearing? Remember this is not a proper hearing and only a hearing to remove the stay...That is whyI asked the Judge to remove the stay as the hearing date would be 2 months after the test case had ended...

 

Penfold

[Penfold92]

OK now I am really confused…

I got the Order from the Court now regarding the hearing that was supposed to be on 8th Jan.

Upon hearing Counsel for the Defendant

It is ordered that

• The case be adjourned to 21 April 2008 at 2.50pm by telephone, at Luton etc
  
• IMPORTANT NOTICE

This is about telephone hearings and the Defendants obligations and I think pretty standard, but the bit at the bottom is the bit worrying me, it says:

The Legal Representative responsible for arranging the hearing must include

a) a draft order and/ or directions, agreed if possible with the other parties, and,

b) in multi-track cases, or where ordered or otherwise considered appropriate, a case summary not exceeding 500 words also agreed with the other parties if possible.

Please mark al documents filed at the Court for this hearing ……

• Costs reserved being in mind the terms of the Claimants letter dated 8 January 2008

I did not mention costs in that letter also what is this Upon hearing Counsel for the Defendant…HSBC did not call me so how did they speak to the Judge when I called at 10.50am I was told I could not speak to the Judge…

Am I missing something here….

[orgman1]

Hi There,

 

I have a hearing scheduled for 23rd January 2008 for removal of a stay that was granted against my case in Sept 2007. However, the notice only informs me of the date of the hearing and a time estimate of 60 mins. I have subsequently contacted the court by phone to confirm my hearing is at 11am. I submitted multiple documents to the court as part of my appeal but I am now having a slight panic as the hearing date is drawing closer and I have not been advised to submit any further bundle. I am appealing as part of the hardship rules, but it seems of late that the waiver that was agreed by the FSA & the Banks is being flouted! My case is with Barclays, who I spoke to last week on the phone, and the legal team feel I am not in hardship, despite acknowledging I am on Job Seekers! This is because I have received some financial assistance from my family. They quoted to me that no Barclay's appeal of a stay has been successful, particularly as most are using the same arguments. I need to clarify whether this is accurate? I have just received a letter today from Barclays, after hearing nothing for 7 months (possibly due to me ringing them and speaking to their legal team) that they do not consider me to be in hardship, and they will not be making any financial settlement offer in response to my hardship claim, and please fill in this budget sheet for ways for us to help with any financial difficulty you may be experiencing!

 

I really need some urgent advice as to what to prepare for the day, so that I can try to counter the banks arguments as best as possible in front of the DJ? Things I'm thinking of are appeals of stays that have been successful; arguments that appear to be being considered by DJ's. Interestingly, Barclays Legal did confirm that they would be attending, but said that they really didn't want too as my hearing is right in the middle of the Test Case hearing. I'm not going to read much into that, but an interesting slip of the tongue perhaps.

 

Look forward to your advice and replies..

[Penfold92]

Welcome Orgman,

 

best thing you can do is set up your own thread in the Barclays forum. I (and I am sure others on the HSBC forum) will be happy to look at it once there.

 

If memory serves me right the application to set aside the stay did not state anything either, I merely made sure I got to the court the things I wanted them to see and also a copy to the solicitors for HSBC.

 

I suggest you write your full events up on your thread and put the link here and we'll have a look for you.

 

Make sure the COurt and the defence gets their copy before the hearing!

 

Good luck,

 

Penfold