first direct = Opinions Please.....should I or shouldn't I?

[lickthewallfatboy]

A few years back,we ran a current account with First Direct,but circumstances transpired to such an effect that we were always way over the overdraft etc etc.

 

First Direct approached us to say that basically they were calling in the account,and leaving us in a right pickle.I told them that I couldn't repay the amount outstanding in one go,and the current account basically ceased to be a current account as such,and we began the long haul of paying the debt back on the drip drip of monthly payment.

 

We get a statement in every month,headed "cheque account details"(which it hasn't been for years),along with balance b/f,what we paid in,and interest followed by a balance forward.

 

Now,to all intents and purposes,am I right in thinking that this "account" is really being run along the lines of, and under implied terms of, a credit agreement?Because if it is,I am considering asking to see the original signed credit agreement,because I can't recall signing one...and if I am right on all counts,there may be a situation of an unenforceable debt coming into play.

 

Thoughts invited please.

[lookinforinfo]

You are repaying a debt built up over time, which you agreed with the bank to repay

at a certain sum per month, possibly to avoid going to Court and having further

costs inflicted as well as a County Court Judgement against your name. The

agreement by you to repay may well have been a verbal one perhaps backed up

by a letter from the bank confirming that the monthly amount you offered was acceptable. You also signed up to their T&C's when opening the account.

 

This is different from a credit agreement where you are given a lump sum at the

outset, with a written agreement to repay within a certain time, and often at

a stipulated rate of interest. And different again from a Court Order where you would be required to repay a debt at a certain sum per month, which you would not

have had to sign up to either.

 

I notice that First Direct is not one of the companies you are pursuing to reclaim

bank charges. Could the account be older than 6 years in that case? Sounds like

there would have been a lot of charges applied then.

[lickthewallfatboy]

yes,it is well over 6 years ago.If I recall it was an overdraft converted to a loan,but I can't remember signing anything to the effect.I'm going to test the water to see what happens.I just want rid of this from round our necks.

 

How would First Direct view the offer of a short settlement?Anyone have any experience of this?

[lookinforinfo]

If you converted to a loan, that is different-and you should/would have signed

a loan agreement. They will have to produce the form you signed. At the same

time, as your loan is still live, it might be an idea to copy Allanfromderby and see

if they have details of bank charges levied before the 6 year term.

 

If they have none, then try for a settlement, though I imagine the bank would

only agree if you were able to come up with a lump sum.

[lickthewallfatboy]

On 22 June I sent a letter to First Direct asking for a true signed copy of a credit agreement.

 

We had a current account a few years back which ran into trouble when I had to leave work,and it was badly overdrawn.First Direct closed the current account,and we started repaying the outstanding amount back by direct debit every month.This has been going on for absolute ages,and I'm getting very fed up with it.Currently 2.5K

 

The Mrs took a phone call from a very nervous sounding lady asking what exactly it was we were looking for,but she told the FD lady that I had written the letter and that she had better talk to me.She asked that I ring First Direct-if they want to talk to me then they phone or write-I'm not going to the expense!.The letter was pretty clear in the fist place anyway.

 

We have heard nothing since-I wonder if they are hoping that we will go away,or that we don't realise the implications of a non-compliance.

 

I think I am right in thinking that monday is the deadline....12 working days from letter being sent.

[lickthewallfatboy]

well-today was the 12 day deadline and I don't see a signed credit agreement.

 

Does anyone have a well worded letter to tell them that they aren't getting any more money?

[rosybunny06]

Hi Lickthewallfatboy

There doesn't seem to be a template of the letter to ask for a signed credit agreement. Could I impose on your good nature for an outline of how you worded your letter to First Direct? I have a bone to pick with HSC who took advantage of me with a dastardly loan many years ago when I was even younger and more naive and I am still paying for it.

[pedro_uk]

Hi (rosybunny - lickthewallfatbo) Is This the one you are looking for

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

xxx xxxxx 2006

 

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Reference: xxxxxxxxxx BANK / x/xxxxxxxx

 

Please be aware that I no longer acknowledge this debt to your company, and therefore require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further.

 

Firstly, you must supply me with a true copy of the agreement you refer to in this matter. This is my right under the legislation contained within section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee.

 

I also require that you supply a signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement.

 

You are reminded that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the CCA 1974.

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested. I am now initiating investigations with Beneficial Finance into the validity of the original amount that was claimed to be owed, and will be in contact with you again in due course. In the meantime please be aware that I consider this matter to be “in dispute.

 

 

Yours faithfully

[rosybunny06]

thanks Pedro

how did you get on using this letter?

[lickthewallfatboy]

cheers Pedro-I used this today

[lickthewallfatboy]

well now,it looks like First Direct are stuffed......

 

this came today-

 

thank you for your letter dated 11 July 2006 enclosing your letter dated 22 june 2006.

 

I am sorry that you have had cause to complain regarding your repayment agreement.

 

I will ensure that you are contacted within the next ten working days after your concerns have been investigated

 

yours sincerely

Sue Stockdale

credit services manager

 

 

I have already sent them the letter in Pedro uk's post

 

Any thoughts?Sounds like they are floundering???£2.5K about to be written off?

[rosybunny06]

Hi Lickthewallfatboy

I have my fingers crossed for you that would be a nice little sum to get written off.

I sent my letter off to HFC Bank on Saturday requesting my credit agreement so their 12 days are counting down!! I also received a letter from the Northern Bank saying they will gather my account info as per my subject access request within the 40 day time period - no stalling tactics as yet but I won't hold my breath.

My hubby and I have £21,000 in debt at the moment and we are severely stressed funnily enough! He is on benefits as he has MS and is finding it hard to get any work. I work for an NHS Trust and don't get paid enough to keep us both. We have been burying our heads in the sand for too long but this group has been great, your info and advice as well as all the other contributors and knowing that we are not the only ones has been of great comfort to me.

 

My next plan of action to raise cash, is to try and get a surrender value for two old pensions we have that are currently frozen, do a car boot and contact all my debtors and ask for my interest to be frozen. I also plan to contact Northern Rock about our mortgage and see if they can help by reducing our monthly payments. We are also going to try and see if Disability Action can give us any support as well as the MS Society. Any other advice that you or anybody else have would be appreciated.

[rosybunny06]

Hi Karnevil

My issue is that some guy rang me up unsolicited and conned me into taking a loan out at an extortionate rate of final amount payable. I was 27 years old, ignorant and totally unsavvy with finance and even though I tried to ask the right questions I feel he lied to me. When I rang HFC approx 2 years ago to get a final settlement fee and explain I felt I had been hoodwinked about the amounts, the guy I spoke to said he was sorry if I felt that way but there was nothing I could do but keep paying and that it was an old agreement and that they wouldn't even have any records of it anymore other than I still had payments to make - he said that they didn't do that type of loan anymore (I wonder why!!!). So I feel justified in contesting paying it and if they don't even have an original agreement on file anymore which doesn't surprise me tough for them. Sorry if this sounds naive but I'm pretty desperate and really cross with these big companies targeting the most in need and vulnerable with their hard sell/dodgy tactics.

[rosybunny06]

Hi karnevil

I am sorry if I sounded stroppy or defensive! Thanks for your encouragement I will try to go for it!

[lickthewallfatboy]

I'm a little concerned about people asking for true signed credit agreements in order to avoid paying back debts as opposed to having an actual issue with the organisation concerned (such as unlawful charges / disagreement of amounts owed / identity theft problems )

 

I disagree-the banks are bound by law to provide an agreement,and if there was none in the first place,then it's their problem.The legislation was put in place to protect the consumer,and if the bank feels that they can just ignore that legislation,I think that they don't deserve to be allowed to operate as bank in the first place!!

 

The high street equivalent of loan sharking......

[ecobabe]

hi lickthewall........did you post a first letter asking for a copy of the signed agreement, then a second asking for it with pedro's letter?did you enclose the £1.00 fee with first or second, cos that's when 12 working days starts from, when they receive request along with payment. i have sent out several of these (although original company has used several dca's), and every one has defaulted (apart from 1). but i didn't write to them after the 12 working days because according to the Act they have a month to come up with the agreement. after 12 working days they have defaulted and cannot enforce the agreement( you can stop paying) and after a month they have committed an offence under the Act and the debt is unenforceable. when this happens i think you can look at defaults etc cos if they do not have an agreement then really no debt exists..... but i didn't contact them after the 12 days, i reckon let sleeping dogs lie and wait until the month is up and the debt unenforceable.

[lickthewallfatboy]

yes-sent the £1 with the first letter.They are in default after 12 working days,and you can legally suspend payments,and after 30 working days its a criminal offence.

 

I have another one missed their deadline today,but I think I'll let them stew this time....