CAG CRA S.A.R Club

[sosumi]

If I wanted to S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) a Credit Reference Agency - Experian is the one I have in mind right now, as "SCOR – Access to full data is now available to all DBSG Members. Get maximum benefit." - will be a Focus Session led by the Director of Regulatory Affairs, Experian, at a beanfeast for Debt Collectors everywhere in September... And Experian - aka 'CreditExpert' is advertising everywhere with it's one month 'free trial' credit report for Consumers all over the World Wide Web it seems...

So, if I wanted to get all of the information they hold about me, including who they have divulged ('shared') this information with, and why - as I think is my right, how would I word the request, anyone?

I'm thinking it will cost me £10.00.

I'm thinking it would be worth it.

Debt collectors appear to have more access to data about me than I do.

After that it'll be Experian and CallCredit. But Experian seems the most timely right now.

Any help with the wording would be much appreciated!

[sosumi]

CB, I'd really appreciate it. It disgusts me that DCAs should have greater rights than I do over my personal information. And that anyone who answers an advert for a free credit check, is then at risk of having their personal data exposed to the nastiest groups of people I've ever encountered!

It's a Catch-22. You're struggling with your finances, worried about your credit rating, there's a company offering a free credit report, you take up the offer and... just like that, Grubb and Co. can have a good look through your credit file, see what might be worth chasing up! Stands to reason that anyone struggling with money will take up a free offer, equally likely that they'll fall behind in payments, and... bye bye data protection!

It really would be worth a tenner! You know the Law CB, it'd really help!

[sosumi]

Thanks CB - DebtMountain's thread looks good to me

Jotty's post (8) where Experian states, in reply to a request to have info. removed:

"Experian do not hold copies of the contracts you have signed, which will include your permission to share this information with credit reference agencies. In order to obtain a copy of this information and any further details of an account you will need to contact the companies directly at the addresses provided on your credit report."

 

"We do not hold copies of the information for similar reasons to why we cannot check the uthentisity of each search recorded on your credit report, the strict terms and conditions that we have in place are considered to be sufficient for us to ensure that the companies using our services are only recording legitimate information."

Hmm.

Again, to quote the subject of one themed event in the forthcoming..

Debt Collection, Debt Sale & Purchase Conference 2007

Setting the Standards..

Annual Conference & Exhibition 2007

OPEN TO BOTH MEMBERS AND NON-MEMBERS OF THE ASSOCIATION

'The Definitive Conference for Anyone Involved in the Credit Collection and Debt Sale and Purchase Industry"..

.. Day Two, Focus Sessions, Theme 1:

11.15 am:

..."SCOR – Access to full data is now available to all DBSG Members. Get maximum benefit."

Hmm.

 

Wouldn't I be right in thinking that CreditExpert (Experian) is projecting itself as a service for the consumer?

And yet, here's their Director for Regulatory Affairs, hosting a Focus Session on the fact that members of the Debt Buyers and Sellers Group (which, as we know, has some distinctly dodgy 'members') can now have full access to data as defined here:

Steering Committee on Reciprocity (SCOR)

I quote:

The UK finance industry established the Steering Committee on Reciprocity (SCOR) to develop and oversee documented guidelines on the use and sharing of credit performance and related data on individuals. SCOR consists of representatives from the CML, British Bankers Association, the Finance and Leasing Association, the Mail Order Trade Association and the Consumer Credit Trade Association, together with representatives from the credit reference agencies (CRAs) Experian, Equifax and Callcredit.

 

SCOR produced the Principles of Reciprocity (the Principles) after consultation with financial trade associations and regulatory bodies. The Principles set out the rules for the recording, supply and access of credit performance data shared through the CRAs. The 'Governing' principle is that data should only be shared for the prevention of over-commitment, bad debt, fraud and money laundering, and to support debt recovery and debtor tracing, with the aim of promoting responsible lending.

Hmm.

 

So that will be quite a topic for discussion, then?

Will it be based on the assumption that Debt Buyers and Sellers are 'the good guys', and people in debt are 'the bad guys'?

Or will they be skipping morality due to time constraints and just getting into the information they can 'share' with Debt Buyers and Sellers?

I sense a real conflict of interest here.

Particularly when you notice, just to get a 'feel' for these 25-minute 'sessions', that the session following is called:

"Assignment of Debts - Rights and duties, Section 77, 78 & 79 and all that.

What to watch out for under the Consumer Credit Act in Debt Sale/Purchase Transactions."

 

Hmm.

 

I'm biased. I've had years of experience with one of the most vulnerable groups of people in society. I know - from my own experience - that when you're suddenly hit by a financial crisis, you look for people to trust. Not just people, but organisations... You ask for help, or go under.

But I'm becoming more and more aware of the fact that, in the 'debt business', presentation is everything, and trust is just something that DCAs play with, to get an 'advantage'.

So, when an organisation presents itself as something that enables a consumer to better understand what information is held about them, but also presents itself as some kind of 'information highway' to very, very questionable agencies... my hackles rise.

Anyone who's suffered mental illness - many illnesses in fact - will know just how difficult it becomes to get life insurance. Understandable or not, it makes you very touchy about who has access to your personal data. If a company presents itself as a consumer service, prides itself as having integrity, then shows how poorly that service is regulated by the records held - or rather the 'sources' of such information...

Well, it makes you wonder.

 

It just so happens that I'm due to write an article in September.

Wonder what I'll write about...

[sosumi]

Hopefully this will link to ODC's post here:

Re: 3 CCA's sent 10/7/07 and confirmation of statue barred post 41:

Quote:

Originally Posted by vogelrok

can they put a default against me on my credit report if they cant prove they own the debt legally. ??????

 

Unfortunately they can and do. I think someone should have a go at the CRAs as they are obiged to ensure taht all the info they hold on you is accurate and up to date. However the reality is that they take the word of a scummy DCA before yours:evil:

Out visiting family earlier, but between now and Monday I'll SAR Experian. Special Delivery Monday.

Tried the SAR generator, but there's no CRA SAR to generate! So I'll go by the template. Or alternatively say:

"Give me everything, you b*****s. I want all my information. Every bit. And tell me who you've shared it with. I'm enclosing ten quid but I tell you now, I think this information should be free to the data subject. And after the other 2 SARs to CRAs, making these requests free of charge will be next on my to-do list. Then I'm checking out the Land Registry. Bit of a free-for-all with you lot right now, ain't it? Things will change!:x"

Oh alright, I won't put that. BUT I WANT TO!!

[sosumi]

Thanks CB - when you say 'us' does that mean I can ask for one covering both hubby and me? Sorry if this is already in the links you provided but I'm drowning in a sea of papers here!!

Will be more organised tomorrow.

[sosumi]

ooh - 'us' as in a CAG-type request? That'd be cool!

[sosumi]

subscribing with great interest, yet confusion. i recently signed up to the free credit report with experian and have since been bombarded with emails offering loans and the like. its really annoying. i am interested in joining you on the S.A.R campaign, but am wondering where it is leading. what are we hoping to achieve from it? sorry if i sound a bit dim, but i want to know the plan before i begin. is it simply to stop the unwanted correspondance, or is there a bigger picture?

Def. a bigger picture Lolly. Credit Reference Agencies advertise their services to consumers, as a means for consumers to become better informed about their credit status, and what information is recorded on their credit file. But when you take up the 'offer', the credit file is 'flagged' that you've just accessed your own information, thereby letting all the types that you've just mentioned have a good look at your credit file, send you all the stuff you've also just mentioned. Catch-22. Debt buyers and sellers are particularly keen... potential custom! Ack!

[sosumi]

CB, just been reading one of the links you put on here... O.. M.. G..

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legalities/20118-default-hell.html

Looks like we could really pin them down??

Right, cleared up all the letters etc., settled down a bit (too much sun yesterday!)

Thanks for the note about the SAR being for each person, rather than both of us. Hubby's not as bothered as me (plus mine poss. involves medical history), so I'll just go for mine. I'll put the SAR on here in a bit, to make sure I've got everything right.

 

Also, I thought last night - particularly in relation to Experian, what about the Advertising Standards Authority? Like in Dobby's thread, I think we're being misinformed about what happens when we search our own records, and the CreditExpert (Experian) advert is everywhere I look these days!

http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/

[sosumi]

This is directly quoted from the Information Commissioner's Office here:

Dear Sir or Madam

Please send me the information which I am entitled to under the Section 7(1) of the Data Protection Act 1998.

If you need further information from me, or a fee, please let me know as soon as possible.

If you do not normally handle these requests for your organisation, please pass this letter to your Data protection officer or another appropriate official.

Yours faithfully

 

Could it be that simple?

[sosumi]

This is from the jargon buster on Data Sharing and Protection, from the Ministry of Justice:

http://www.justice.gov.uk/docs/data_sharing_jargon_buster.pdf

Personal data/information

Information relating to a living individual, from which that individual can be identified, or which can be used to identify a living individual in conjunction with other information held, (or likely to be held) by a data controller. Personal data/information includes expressions of opinions about that person, or indications of intent towards them.

Principles

The Data Protection Act 1998 requires that data controllers process personal data in accordance with eight Principles. These require that personal data are:

• fairly and lawfully processed;

• processed for limited purposes;

• adequate, relevant and not excessive;

• accurate;

• not kept longer than necessary;

• processed in accordance with individuals' rights;

• kept secure;

• not transferred to countries outside the European Economic Area without adequate protection.

Processing

The processing of personal data includes obtaining, recording, holding or carrying out any operation on the data.

Subject access

The right of data subjects to receive a copy of the information held about them, a description of why their information is being processed, and details of anyone who may see a copy of their data, to whom it may

be transferred, and the logic involved in any automated decisions taken on the basis of that data.

[sosumi]

... and here's the Data Protection Act Directgov webpage:

The Data Protection Act : Directgov - Rights and responsibilities

The Data Protection Act

 

The Data Protection Act regulates how your personal information is used and protects you from misuse of your personal details.

 

It provides a common-sense set of rules which prohibit the misuse of your personal information without stopping it being used for legitimate or beneficial purposes.

The details of the Data Protection Act are quite complex, but at the heart of it are eight common-sense rules known as the Data Protection Principles.

These require personal information to be:

• fairly and lawfully processed;
  
• processed for limited purposes;
  
• adequate, relevant and not excessive;
  
• accurate;
  
• not kept longer than necessary;
  
• processed in accordance with your rights;
  
• kept secure;
  
• not transferred abroad without adequate protection.

 

Organisations using personal information ('data controllers') must comply with these Principles.

The Act provides stronger protection for sensitive information about your ethnic origins, political opinions, religious beliefs, trade union membership, health, sexual life and any criminal history.

 

Getting access to your information

 

The Act, with some exceptions, gives you the right to find out what information is held about you by organisations. This is known as the 'right of subject access'. On written request, you are entitled to be supplied with a copy of all the information an organisations holds about you.

 

[sosumi]

Like this CB?:

Data Protection Act 1998

Subject Access Request

 

Date: 3-9-2007

Dear Sir/Madam

DATA SUBJECT:

Sosumi, Sosumi’s Address

(Maiden Name – Miss Sosumi)

 

 

Please supply me with a complete breakdown and copies of all information held with your organisation.

 

Also details for every organisation that has accessed my data for the period which you hold records and any supporting documentation and notes.

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which I normally use.

 

Please consider this a request under section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998. I enclose the statutory fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

 

Thank you in advance for your assistance with this matter.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

________________

 

Sosumi

- Thought I'd add my maiden name, as they already have it. What about hubby's name, as they put him down on my credit report, ie. we're both obviously associated to each other.. that's why I'm wondering?

Yours is much better. I was drafting mine with ref. to the 8 data protection principles! I suspect that might be for later though?

[sosumi]

Has anybody seen this?:

CreditExpert Affiliate Programme

CreditExpert affiliate programme

 

Calling all websites! Make money by joining the CreditExpert affiliate programme. Whether you have a large or small site, your users can benefit from the CreditExpert product while at the same time generating you revenue. We provide you with a wide variety of creative; all you need is the traffic.

We will pay you for every FREE trial member that you generate, regardless if they cancel at the end of their trial. Since launching in 2004, we’ve gained thousands of members through our affiliate programme with many of our publishers generating serious money every week.

What’s more, credit-reporting services in the US are proven to be the best affiliate programmes. Here in the UK we have a great range of partners, from major portals to specialist financial sites.

Some key questions:

• What’s in it for you?
  
• For every ‘free trial member’ you generate CreditExpert will pay you a commission, regardless of any cancellations

• What sites does CreditExpert work well on?
  
• Financial, advice, loans, mortgage, and credit card sites
  
• Property and car sites
  
• Rewards and incentive sites
  
• Shopping sites
  
• Information and advice sites

• What types of people want this product?
  
• People who are applying for financial products
  
• People who are concerned about their credit history
  
• People who want to check that their information is correct
  
• People who want to protect themselves from identity fraud - the UK’s fastest growing crime

• Where can you target these members?
  
• Generic websites - CreditExpert appeals to anyone who is concerned about their credit status
  
• Before an application - are your users thinking about credit cards, mortgages or loans? If so they will be credit checked. Don’t let them be denied due to incorrect information, get them to check their credit report for free
  
• After an application - have your users been refused credit? Let them check their credit report for free

• Remember:
  
• CreditExpert complements other financial products as it can play an important step in helping a customer get a loan, mortgage or credit card. Anyone with a valid credit card and UK address can join

So what are you waiting for? Click on the below link and enjoy the benefits of promoting CreditExpert

- So that'll be why the advert's everywhere then

[sosumi]

do we need to send one to all three of the main CRA's, or are we just focusing on the one we are signed up with?

I'm eventually going to send one to all 3 (and the Land Registry!), but am going to have to space it out because of the cost Lolly. And Experian - one of their chief executives is going to host a 'focus group' at a big swish conference for debt collectors in September, about how they can access all our information.

Strikes me they're touting for business from consumers one way, providing it to debt collectors the other. So yes, I have to spend this tenner as wisely as I can, and I think they should be first on the list.

[sosumi]

Sosumi

 

Just read this bit from the Affiliate Programme info you posted in post #32

 

For every ‘free trial member’ you generate CreditExpert will pay you a commission, regardless of any cancellations

 

Think I will ask them for my "commission" then;) - I initially recommended CAGers to sign up for their credit report as it was FREE

 

Yes BO, but why wouldn't you? You thought what most of us thought! xx

[sosumi]

Sorry, CB, didn't mean to duplicate your post, was going to add - but then decided against it.

I've got my Credit Report here. It lists 'Financial Associations' - obviously it's my hubby, so if I ask for a SAR with the above letter they'll enclose everything in the Credit Report and then everything else as well? I just don't want to miss anything out!

[sosumi]

Okay, I'm going to send this. I've changed it a bit, as I can refer to my printed CRF, but essentially it's CB's letter:

Post doesn't leave here until late afternoon, so if anyone sees any mistakes etc, please let me know?

Data Protection Act 1998

Subject Access Request

 

Date: 3-9-2007

Dear Sir/Madam

DATA SUBJECT:

Sosumi, Sosumi’s Address

 

Please supply me with a complete breakdown and copies of all information held with your organisation.

 

Also details for every organisation that has accessed my data for the period which you hold records and any supporting documentation and notes.

 

Please consider this a request under section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998. I enclose the statutory fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

 

I previously subscribed to CreditExpert, and also requested a hard copy of my credit file from you, which you provided dated 23rd August 2007, ref: ********/**. You should therefore have all the details you require from me, but please let me know by return if you require any other specific information.

 

Thank you in advance for your assistance with this matter.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

_____________ (signature above line as per CB's suggestion)

 

Sosumi

[sosumi]

I've been thinking about ODC's post about telephone calls etc, and wondered about adding the following?:

Additionally, where there has been any event which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to your keeping my records.

 

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

What do you think? I've got a few hours yet before taking it to the Post Office, so again any help much appreciated!

 

Busy paying bills/writing cheques etc at the mo, but will get this posted today!!

[sosumi]

The Data Controller,

Experian Ltd

Talbot House

Talbot Street

Nottingham

NG80 1TH

 

Data Protection Act 1998

Subject Access Request

Date: 3-9-2007

 

Dear Sir/Madam

DATA SUBJECT:

Sosumi

 

Sosumi House ()

Postcode

Please supply me with a complete breakdown and copies of all information held with your organisation.

 

Also details for every organisation that has accessed my data for the period which you hold records and any supporting documentation and notes.

 

Please consider this a request under section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998. I enclose the statutory fee of £10 (Cheque xxxxxx) . You have 40 days in which to comply.

 

*I previously subscribed to CreditExpert, and also requested a hard copy of my credit file from you, which you provided dated xx August 2007, ref: xxxxxxx/xx. You should therefore have all the details you require from me, but please let me know by return if you require any other specific information.*

 

Additionally, where there has been any event which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to your keeping my records.

 

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

 

Thank you in advance for your assistance with this matter.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

_____________

 

Sosumi

I think I've got it now! Cheers everyone (esp. CurlyBen) xx

I'm posting it here in full because I'm hoping to use it for the other CRAs and also the Land Registry.

I've put asterisks round the only paragraph that applies to me personally (ie. the CRF I refer to). Otherwise, hopefully it's good to go!

[sosumi]

M.W feel free as it's open to everyone.

The more the merrier for our happy little band

:)

Hand-delivered yesterday. Got a receipt.

[sosumi]

CB, I'm going to do a lot of studying today around this. The links you're providing are excellent! xx

On the website, 'About Experian', there's this page:

About Experian | Experian UK

The whole thing disturbs me greatly.

Particularly the 25-minute 'Focus Group' at the forthcoming conference

And again, 'presentation is everything', it seems.

You don't reach the webpage above by clicking on any of the advertising links, instead you go here:

Experian Credit Expert, check credit rating, credit reports & file alerts - with Experian CreditExpert.co.uk

- and the aim of this main page is to get you to subscribe. As many OP's have said, the 'free credit check' is very tempting, and of course you can phone to cancel before the 'free month' is up - but what are we giving away in the process? To say that people are suddenly inundated with offers of loans etc 'by coincidence' beggars belief! What worries me most is the thought that sharks are out there, just waiting for a sign that you're struggling with your finances, waiting to smell blood! And if you take up the 'free credit check' offer, it shows up on your credit file...

 

These are huge firms, really huge. It's scary.

[sosumi]

Just wanted to add - after my last post here this morning, hubby got an email from Experian. We both wrote, with £2 cheques, asking for a printed copy of our credit files. Previously we'd both subscribed to the Creditexpert service, so we asked also to cancel the subscriptions. A few days later we had emails referring to our 'emails' - they were letters - to say our subs had been cancelled. We waited a while, then sent them reminder emails saying that we hadn't received our printed credit files. They sent me mine. Both cheques were cashed. Bob sent another email saying he still hasn't received his - and got the email this morning. It was to ask him to phone Experian. He rang this morning. Was told they hadn't received an application, print one out, fill it in and enclose a statement showing the cheques that were cashed, and they'd send him his report.

But if they cancelled his sub and cashed the cheque, they did receive the letter! Bizarre!!

PS they have 7 offices in Nottingham. Very classy too

[sosumi]

Hi All

First piece of junk mail received today from Central Capital Mortgages Ltd.They want to lend me money!!!!!

Is it just me, or is anyone else thinking 'Bingo!' here!

[sosumi]

DCA Supervisor Contacts

 

and the Conference PDF is:

here

 

Day Two, Session 1.

[sosumi]

Hope so, ODC.

Here's my receipt: