Trustguard security Parking Charge up to £205 now!

[hall5456]

Hi everyone, this is my first post and a pickle it is.

 

In March i received a Fixed Penalty Charge visitng a friend of mine in some new build apartments, it was a building site to say teh least and all temp visitor parking were taken. I parked along side a wooden fence which everyone else had done. 30 mins later theu had stuck a packet on my window with FPC.

 

First off I am not the registered keeper, my dad is but I bought the car off him a long time ago.

 

Either way I replied with an appeal below:

 

Dear Trustguard,

I am writing to appeal against a fixed penalty charge invoice that my vehicle recently received. Unfortunately, the security guard that issued this charge is incorrect in issuing the penalty

The site did not have clear signage covering the area the vehicle was parked (please see photo). A contractual term could not be individually negotiated and can therefore be regarded as unfair as the driver or registered keeper was unable to enter a contract with you or influence the terms in which the contract is agreed (see unfair contract terms Act 1977). Furthermore, you will have to prove that the driver agreed to a contract, agreed to park under the terms of contract, that they agreed to pay a charge if they breached this contract, that they actually did breach this contract, and that the charge is both fair and not an unenforceable penalty charge which is not a reasonable estimate of your loss.

As the site in question has free parking for tenants and visitors I question what actual losses/damages you have actually incurred from the vehicle being parked in the site, and consider £80 an unreasonable penalty (again see Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 – section 4 ). In addition, the ticket only specifies a date that it was written and not a date of issue, date of contraventions, or the period the vehicle was parked. The model of the car on the ticket is incorrect and suggests the issuer was not paying attention to details, and as such one could also assume unaware that there was also improper signage and therefore no reason to issue the invoice.I believe I have provided sufficient evidence to show that there were unclear signage in which to enter a contractual agreement and therefore revoke the penalty charge and consider the matter closed. I expect no further contact from you other than to inform me that the penalty charge appeal has been successful and have enclosed a SAE so that you may do this, or that you have sufficient evidence that the driver or keeper of the vehicle agreed to the contract and was in violation of the contract. Further contact will be considered harassment and will be in breach of ‘The administration of Justice Act 1970’.

Yours Sincerely

 

The photo I supplied stupidly did not involve my car but just the area I was parked as I had to go back after driving 2 miles before discovering the FPC on my bottom right window. Either way, I have heard nothing back until yesterday. My dad has received a letter saying that as the keeper he must pay£205 to their debt agency (ccscollect.co.uk) within 14 days. Way more than the intial ticket. There is no address for trustguard to dispute this other than of course their debt agency

 

The problem is, they never replied in the first place, secondly, this would be unfair on my dad, and thirdly, I never actually did anything wrong but want to pay now just so my dad has no involvement.

 

Trustguard are impossible to contact and feel they just randomly selected to hit me that day because my car was there.. "who shall owe us £80 today"... a copy of their ticket can be found at the below links

 

Trustguard Security-Vehicle security experts

 

 

I am tempted to just tell my dad to write to them saying he was not the driver of the vehicle and to leave him alone. The letter also states that registered owner or driver must now pay

 

Any help truly appreciated

 

Gareth

[Zamzara]

If you pay you will just be letting them get away with [causing problems] you and others.

 

A debt collection agency is just a scare tactic as they have no additional powers. You should tell them that the debt does not exist and not to contact you again as you did before.

[hall5456]

Thanks for the advice

 

However, the problem is the letter was sent to my fathers address and they clearly made no attempt to conact me in order to acknowledge my appeal which is very unprofessional - but somewhat says more about them as a company I guess

 

I have asked my dad to write them a letter saying he was not the driver and to leave him alone, if they pursue it then I will ask him to redirect them to me as the driver that gave them everything they said they needed excpet payment for something that never really took place.

 

They cannot prove it!

 

Anymore comments and advice would be appreciated

 

[Zamzara]

I have asked my dad to write them a letter saying he was not the driver and to leave him alone, if they pursue it then I will ask him to redirect them to me as the driver that gave them everything they said they needed excpet payment for something that never really took place.

 

I would agree with that.

[Trevor00]

Hello,

 

yes i am unfortunate enough to be the victim of a parking ticket from trusguard too. Infact i had 7 in one week! i live at the complex and have my own parking space. i always park in my own space and one day i had a ticket saying that my permit is out of date. I rang the estate manager who confirmed that they do not issue dates on the permits and therfore i should not have received these tickets.

Following this first FPN i had received a new one everyday for a week and even two on one day! each one stating that i had an out of date permit!

 

i have obviously not paid the fines which would add up to a sum of £560.

 

unfortunately in a few months time i am expecting to have 7 letters asking me to pay £205 each!! and for what? parking in my own designated bay, with a parking permit clearly displayed in the window (bearing no date whatsoever).

 

I have written to them asking for their complaints policy as every ligitimate company should have one. I doubt that i will hear anything.

 

I also believe that issuing me with all these FPN's is harrassment as again there clearly is no date on the permits.

 

we should all write to watchdog!!

[Zamzara]

I would have a word with the landlord and mention that if it doesn't stop he/she could ultimately be held jointly responsible. If they are continuously issuing tickets for an incorrect reason it is probably fraud.

[mftsanders]

My daughter is also a victim of Trustguard Security, she sent of a cheque for £80 back in April with a letter appealing the ticket. We never had a reply and the cheque was never cashed. We have now had a letter via a debt collection agency demanding we now pay £205!! Unfortunately we did not send it recorded delivery, we we have no proof of posting, we have written to them again and we shall wait and see what their reaction, if any is.

 

The London address they give is a forwarding address and there is no phone number, their website registrant is Clearway Parking Management. Clearway Parking Management - Parking Specialists

 

I will be writing to the BBC Watchdog if necessary.

[hall5456]

Wow.. they are sounding a like a proper dodgy company and targeting us that may have been a bit honestly naive and then ignoring our appeals, which of course is infuriating.

 

My dad from the previous post has suggested they take hime to court then and for them to prove the car was there in the first place. So there address is a forwarding address , I am sure they wil ignore the letter from my dad then but will try get him if he hasn't sent it yet to get it recorded delivery

[Guest perky88]

Trevor,

Trustguard are members of the BPA and therefore are required to have a formal complaints procedure (as all the member companies are) .. If they refuse to supply you with the documented information then you should complain to the BPA. ( Welcome to the British Parking Association )

If the BPA receive many genuine complaints they can refuse a company membership and after october this will have serious impact on a company who is not registered as they will not be able to access DVLA records .. so I am sure if you mention the BPA to Trustguard in your letter .. a response will be very quick in coming to you.

[Guest perky88]

mftsanders,

If you sent them a cheque you will have the cheque stub with cheques issued after the date you issued the payment to Trustguard.

We often get people who say they have sent chq in the post (etc..etc..etc..) and we always ask them to send in details of the cheque number, copy of the stub and 2 or 3 cheques issued afterwards .. then a printout of their bank statement showing the cheques afterwards being cashed. (blank out amounts/balances .. just showing chq xxxxx cased on xx/xx/xx and then chq xxxxx on xx/xx/xx) - both these on dates after you say the chq you sent was cashed.

This shows the cheque was probarly issued and we always allow them to repay the reduced amount ..

You have to realise 'the chq in the post' is an excuse many people use and because its heard so many times companies get hardened to it and ask for proof ... this way its all sorted in 1 letter, 1 printout of a bank statement and 2 copies of chq stubs... no endless letters, no excessive costs, no pointless court apperences etc..

[Trevor00]

Thanks for the replies

 

it looks like the company lack proper administration in relation to responding to complaints and appeals etc.

[Zamzara]

You have to realise 'the chq in the post' is an excuse many people use and because its heard so many times companies get hardened to it and ask for proof ... this way its all sorted in 1 letter, 1 printout of a bank statement and 2 copies of chq stubs

 

A bank statement won't show a cheque that was lost in the post. And a cheque stub proves nothing, as anyone can fill one in at any time.

[Zamzara]

Trevor,

Trustguard are members of the BPA and therefore are required to have a formal complaints procedure (as all the member companies are) .. If they refuse to supply you with the documented information then you should complain to the BPA. ( Welcome to the British Parking Association )

If the BPA receive many genuine complaints they can refuse a company membership and after october this will have serious impact on a company who is not registered as they will not be able to access DVLA records .. so I am sure if you mention the BPA to Trustguard in your letter .. a response will be very quick in coming to you.

 

The BPA website says almost the exact opposite:

 

"The BPA is not set up to deal with parking and/or clamping complaints from the general public, nor are we a regulatory body, so unfortunately we will not able to help with any parking related issues that you may have."

 

They exist purely to give false legitimacy to a [problem].

[hall5456]

There is a complaints procedure but sounds like it would be given to a suicidal man stuck in the corner of a dark and dreary office!

 

http://www.britishparking.co.uk/index.php?path=5,70#complaint

 

What can I do if I have a complaint against a company I believe to be a member of the BPA?

 

If you have a complaint with a company that you believe to be a member of the BPA, follow their complaints procedure in order to resolve the issue. If you feel the issue has not been resolved satisfactorily, and you wish to pursue the matter further, call 01444 447300 and ask to check that the company is indeed a member of the BPA. If they are a member, please write to the Director of Membership services detailing the nature of your complaint and enclosing copies of any correspondence you have had with the company. Whilst the BPA cannot get involved in individual cases, if a large number of complaints are received against a member of ours we will review their membership status.

If your complaint is against a company that operators clamping services, always contact the SIA in the first instance to check the employees that carry out clamping are licenced.

[Guest perky88]

ZamZara ... Read Carefully, I will try and explain in detail what I meant to try and help mftsaunders .. as this is what we do.

 

If mftsaunder states he sent (for example) chq number 12 to them on the 14th April.

He wrote a chq to pay his phone bill (chq 11) on 10th April

He wrote a chq to elec bill (chq 13) on 28th april

He wrote a chq to dvla (chq 14) on 3rd May ..

 

His bank statement will normally show chq 11,13,14 being cashed .. but no 12 ..

He will have the stub in his chq book for chq 12 being £80 for trustguard but never cashed .. but the stubs just before (11) and after (13&14).

 

You still following .. if not .. start at top ... if so .. I will continue ....

 

Now, unless mftsaunders was planning to write a chq then not send it .. it points to a genuine loss in the post .. as he can show cheques before & after being cashed .. his chq stubs back up the date sequence .

 

Any reasonable company would accept this as proof and allow him to pay at the reduced charge as its not his fault the chq got lost - and if they did intend to take him to court for the difference, once the DJ was showed the above he would also agree on balance of probabilities the chq was sent but lost and he should be allowed to pay the original reduced amount.

 

We always ask for this information and in all genuine cases it is sent and we set back at reduced time .. the non genuine ones cant (or wont) produce this reasonable request and either just pay the extra or goto court ... and then we just make the court aware of our reasonable request and their failure to send it ... the court takes a dim view of people who donot try and resolve out of court.

[Guest perky88]

Once again ZamZara ...

 

All member companies need to submit to the BPA a certificate of complicance:

 

http://www.britishparking.co.uk/pix/File/initiatives/off_street/Off%20Street%20Enforcement%20Evidence%20of%20Compliance%20Report%20vs1.pdf

 

This includes "The Dispute Management and or Complaints Procedure adopted and in use by the Company/Organisation or Operator"

This is also documented in the code of practice that from 1st September ALL members have to abide by, if they dont then no access to DVLA.. http://www.britishparking.co.uk/pix/File/initiatives/off_street/Code%20of%20Practice%20-%20Part%202.pdf

See sections 62-66 (pages 12/13)

[mftsanders]

Thanks for that Perky, in fact I do have a later cheque which has been cashed so that is not a problem. I will report my progress.

[Zamzara]

Thanks for clarifying what you meant about the cheque perky.

 

Mftsanders, if your daughter wants to dispute the charge, she must not pay. Asking for payment with an appeal is clearly a trick and you will not hear from them again if they actually get your money.

[Zamzara]

This is also documented in the code of practice that from 1st September ALL members have to abide by, if they dont then no access to DVLA.. http://www.britishparking.co.uk/pix/File/initiatives/off_street/Code%20of%20Practice%20-%20Part%202.pdf

 

Thanks, I've been looking into this some more.

 

When wheel clampers had to be SIA approved, it did not stop the illegal and predatory practices. All it did was give the con-men a false badge of legitimacy. The result is that the illegal practices are continuing, but the practices are now 'SIA approved'. The result is that the police etc. feel unable to step in. It's not about protecting the consumer, it's about limiting competition.

 

The licencing of ticketers will have the same result. They even admit in the code of practice that the fee is a penalty, which is by definition unenforcable in a consumer contract. But now it will be an 'approved' illegal penalty.

 

I once heard a good description of a similar system of licencing "psychics". The people most in favour of it were the psychics, as they were then in a better position control their own regulation, instead of the proper authorities, whose influence was reduced. All the self regulation they introduced was about limiting competition and nothing to do with protecting people from fraud, beacuse they were all frauds.

 

How for example will limiting the amount the ticket can increase to to £150 help the public, when the premise of increasing the amount after two weeks is a made up idea anyway?

How will making companies provide a phone number help consumers who have been ticketed wrongly, if the phone operator has no obligation to cancel the ticket?

How will every company needing an appeals procedure help anyone, when they all have this already but every appeal is denied? Will they have to actually approve any appeals? Of course not. But the sham appeal procedure will now be a 'BPA approved' process.

[patdavies]

Once again ZamZara ...

 

All member companies need to submit to the BPA a certificate of complicance:

 

http://www.britishparking.co.uk/pix/File/initiatives/off_street/Off%20Street%20Enforcement%20Evidence%20of%20Compliance%20Report%20vs1.pdf

 

This includes "The Dispute Management and or Complaints Procedure adopted and in use by the Company/Organisation or Operator"

 

This is also documented in the code of practice that from 1st September ALL members have to abide by, if they dont then no access to DVLA.. http://www.britishparking.co.uk/pix/File/initiatives/off_street/Code%20of%20Practice%20-%20Part%202.pdf

 

See sections 62-66 (pages 12/13)

 

 

That may be what the BPA is saying, but it does not entirely mesh with the DVLA's point of view.

 

Companies will, in theory at least, have to abide by the BPA code of practice to access the DVLA under the auspices of membership of BPA.

 

The DVLA requirement is that private car parking companies will only be allowed access if they are members of a trade body. There is no restriction to this body being BPA or indeed restriction to a single trade body.

 

BPA is but one (admittedly currently the only one) such trade body.

 

Anybody will be able to set up in competition with BPA and provided they meet the DVLA criteria, their members will be allowed access

[Guest perky88]

this is like extracting teeth !!

 

pat, I donot have a crystal ball so unable to see into the future about other trade bodys .. but as they dont exist at the moment, trustguard and others need to abide by the rules set out by the current ONLY trade body being the BPA.

 

They state the complaints procedure and I answered it .. simple... the OP will be able to request the formal complained procedure from the company if they dont send then report to BPA as a non compliance etc..etc...etc...

 

If a similar question gets asked in 12-24months and if there are multiple trade bodies then my answer may be different .. but for the time being lets not cloud the question/answer.

[patdavies]

You totally miss the point - but then that's fairly standard for you.

[Guest perky88]

Pat, please donot resort to personal insults .. some would argue once people start personally insulting the argument has been lost ...

 

I did not realise I had missed the point, the question was about a set complaints procedure and does the company have one .. I advised they are a BPA member so have to have one or they are non compliant.

 

I thern advised him to contact trustguard stating they send it to him as required by the BPA ... To me a perfect and correct answer !!

 

You then start mentioning about other trade organisations etc.... none is relevant... If I have missed something then tell me what....

[Rob S]

Pat, please donot resort to personal insults .. some would argue once people start personally insulting the argument has been lost ...

 

 

I must have missed something in the translation, because I noticed Pat made an observation, which was a long way from being a personal insult. If you think that was an insult Perky, then you have led a very sheltered life.

[Guest perky88]

Ok Rob ....