Johnniepk v A & L Birkenhead County Court

[johnniepk]

Hi,

My case has been transfered to Birkenhead County Court on 8th October at 10:00 allocated 10 mins. Small claims track.I am advised that the claim has been listed with other similar cases at the same time.

The directions are

"Each party shall deliver to every other party and to the court office copies of all documents (including any experts report) on which he intends to rely at the hearing no later than 14 days before the hearing"

The original documents shall be brought to the hearing

 

Ok I got this far reading other peoples questions and now I need support!

1,Doing the court bundle seems a long winded process which I can do but it is also considerable extra expense, copies and postage etc. Can this be claimed back?

2,Anyone else down for this date at Birkenhead?

3,A&L sent a letter that implies that they will deal with my case after the OFT hearing. I will carry on to court regardless unless the court says different but do I include this letter in my bundle showing their 'attitude'?

4, do I write the case number on each and every page?

5, I sit worth waiting or shall I start the bundle now ?

Enough questions for now but plenty more spinning around!!!!????

[jansus]

Hi

 

and welcome to A&L forum

 

I am going to post a few threads that might help with some of your questions.

 

I should think the first thing that will happen is a request for stay.

there is a letter in one of my links and a form if it comes officially from the bank.

 

If you get further down the line and the hearing goes ahead I would start preparing bundle about two three weeks ahead (not last minute as I am doing.)

 

 

 

 

 

Application for removal of a stay - UPDATED TO ACCOUNT FOR OFT

 

 

Lastly keep reading our threads here and you will see how differently each case has gone.

 

Jan

 

Case guidance notes - bringing your case to court

 

Wasted Costs From The Beginning!

GOT A COURT DATE? A guide to the later stages

[jansus]

Also if you go to search button

advanced search

birkenhead - posts (not threads) view as posts

 

you will see one case was struck out in favour of claimant and also someone else has called them and they said they are processing all cases in system - so looks like you MIGHT be in luck.

 

Jan

[johnniepk]

Thanks a lot for the welcome and the help.

Do I include everything in the correspondence part of the bundle including court letters. I only ask because I got a letter from the court saying they had agreed to pay fully the claim (£1020)but when I rang the court it was only a fraction of the claim £230 they had put in.This is another example of how they are trying to confuse customers .

[jansus]

I think technically if it says "without prejudice on the letter" you are not allowed to produce it in court . However as far as keeping your correspondance together I am going to include these in the bundle - just in case they are referred to (not that A&L have ever appeared in court yet:D )

 

jan

[jansus]

full report from an entertaining afternoon at Kingston County Court **MUST READ** (1 2 3)

rogerebaker

 

 

read post 1 if you need cheering up

 

post 23 refers to my previous comment

 

jan:)

[bsia666]

Welcome to the A&L forum , All the correspondence that you have goes into your court bundle so there are no missing pieces in your Index of Documents.

 

Jansus is correct re correspondence marked "without prejudice"

 

By looking at your Index of Documents you will be able follow the correspondence in order and so will the judge.

 

I started to plod along doing my court bundle about 6-7 weeks before I thought I may need it. If you have the time go along at a steady pace then its best to do that (less stress). You may not be able print off a link or find something, so this will give you time to fish about for it.

 

No new documents can be added to an appeal if you lose so it best to put everything in that you could possibly use at the hearing in October.

 

I did not page my court bundle but it was set out by letter egAA BB CC DD and so on (MimiJane kindly sent me hers, which had been checked the mods) She has offered before to send to others by email, you should PM her!!! It helped me a lot. I would think if your paged everything and had an index to the pages it would look fine.

 

Keep all your receipts including ink, paper and so on (remember a wasted costs order in your favour from a decent judge, could add up to a considerable sum)

 

I have sent you a PM. All the very best in your claim:)

[johnniepk]

wow! I love it here..and how I have laughed at the day in Kingston.Looks like an order for printer ink is in order

[bsia666]

Forgot to say that I did 4 copies of the bundle. Court, Wragge & Co ,mine and a spare for court hearing to be handed to Judge or Wragge if either one did not it with them (for whatever reason).

 

William.

[Bigmark]

Hi and

 

welcome to A&L freedom fighters the forum that ................. WINS

[johnniepk]

MY CASE IS ALLOCATED TO THE SMALL CLAIMS TRACK(HEARING) tHE DIRECTIONS ARE:(whoops, I have been shouting!)

Each party shall deliver to every other party and to the court office copies of all documents (including any experts report) on which he intends to rely at the hearing no later than 14 days before the hearing.I am starting my bundle.

In relation to terms and conditions do I use just the page with the charges on or the 32 pages of the lot?The link to the 2005 T & Cs only gives the one page.

Do I do a statement of evidence?If I do what is one!!

[johnniepk]

Oh yes , one other thing, when I do my bundle do I update the interest on the spreadsheet or does it stay at the original amount claimed?

[jansus]

As far as i know it accumulates on a daily basis (if you have use spread sheet from here)

 

So would leave that until last

 

Have not got that far yet:(

 

jan

[bsia666]

Hi

 

Have you been asked to submit a Statement of Evidence ?? If you have a then look at this link, post 55.........................

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/53570-new-strategy-allocation-questionnaires-3.html

 

For my bundle, I put in as many T&Cs as I could find that related to the 4-5 years my claim was for.

 

William

[johnniepk]

No I have not been asked to submit one. Is this good news?

[bsia666]

Hi

 

It means you have less work to do for your claim so that's good . After I had completed mine (I was asked to submit one) I was happy I completed it as I understood the arguments about claiming back charges a little bit more, so that wasn't a bad thing.

 

Copy and paste allows you to do things like a Statement of Evidence a lot quicker that writing it all out, that's good, but I know I need to go over the arguments/reasoning all the time as they wont stick upstairs for long:mad:

 

William

[johnniepk]

I have my bundles almost done. Half a rainforest gone!

Wragge have written saying that although Aliar and Jester are not part of the OFT case they will be applying for a stay. Now as yet I have heard nothing from the court and the date of the case is the 8th of October. As per all the advice I shall of course have my bundles off before the 14 days before date. What I am wondering is if there is a date that will be too late for a stay? Up to what point can they ask for one?Thanks JPK

[jansus]

Hi

 

I dont know about leaglities but recently they have appeared in court and asked for the stay at the hearing - so be prepared

 

The judge may just agree and not let you speak

 

Or you could have an appeal ready just in case.

 

this thread is interesting hadyanth vs Lloyds TSB **WON in COURT!**

 

plus see my other posts for links today

jan:)

[jansus]

Bundle for stay hearings

[johnniepk]

Thanks, I have completed my court budles. One posted to Wragges tomorrow which all being well they will get Friday. I will hand the court one in tomorrow. The directions say all documents from both sides to each other no less than 14 days before the 8.10.07. I make that Monday and if Aliar and Jester have not put their documents by then and then try to get a stay, I will be furious.

[jansus]

unfortunately any bank can say they will rely on their original defence in court and dont have to submit a bundle:(

 

So that is why it is very hard to get a judgement on that basis.

 

At the moment they seem confident they will get a stay in every case - what we need is for a judge to disagree with them.

 

Jan

[johnniepk]

The sheer arrogance of them.I just hope I get the chance to speak then and I will let the Judge know they are taking his judgement for granted.

[jansus]

before the stays came into affect it did backfire on some banks - as the judges ruled that the original defences were inadequate and claimants won on that basis.

 

the lloyds case I posted I am not sure but i dont think they even filed a defence and relied on having a stay - but I am not sure of the technicalities of the win - it is a long thread .

 

the fact is we know that a&L had no intention of appearing at all - that is what is so frustrating.

 

Jan

[squarebob]

You may well get a chance to say your piece in court, but like the stone that falls on stony ground, it will not bear any fruit, unless something wonderful happens and a miracle occurs the only thing that remains certain at this moment in time is that your local court is putting everything on the back burner. Check the Forum for courts around the country and what they are doing for confirmation.

SQ

[johnniepk]

Just back form court. Had a full 10 mins with Judge Travers. We were the only ones in the room. He explained that Wragges had asked for a stay. He then told us what he thought we would say to this. He then fully explained his legal position in relation to the request for a stay and our anticipated objection to it. He cited cases to which he was legally bound to follow. At first I thought he was going to throw out the request for a stay but as time went on I realised he had no choice. I got the immpression he was sympathetic to the claim and advised me which parts of my bundle were relevant and which parts were not. He admired the work I had done. He informed me he was granting the stay and then told me that I could appeal but again told me why I would lose any appeal and why Wragges would get their stay.He was very fair, made it clear why he was having to do this and not dismissive at all. I enquired as to A&L obligations after the test case and he said he was granting the stay to them on the basis they were legally bound to the result of the case.After all I had read here I did expect a stay to be granted but I am suprised how good I feel about being in court. They did not turn up just sent a letter in. I feel a moral victory and now look forward to the test case.