walton v rbos

[paulwlton]

This thread exists exclusively to assist me in preparing litigation against another party. As such it is almost certainly protected by litigation privilege.

 

The legal requirements for claiming litigation privilege are well established and are not in dispute. Communications between a solicitor or the client and a third party will be protected by litigation privilege where the communications are for the dominant purpose of obtaining legal advice in connection with, or conducting, litigation reasonably in prospect: Re Highgate Traders Limited [1984] BCLC 151.

 

Copyright Information: All information contained in this website, associated websites, and forum posts are copyright Reclaim The Right Ltd. If you wish to use the information on this site for publication elsewhere, then please email the administrators for permission.

 

 

 

I know there's a separate thread for this and i have posted in it. but my claim is with RBS.

I have just received statements from between 1996 to 1998 in that time i incurred £1450 in charges 25 for unpaid dd 15 referal etc, in one particular week £150 was taken in charges, at the time i was only earning this amount.

With charges taking me overdrawn the bank rang and offered loans to clear the overdraft, this happened more than once, i eventually obtained a ccj which i am still paying.

The limitation act restricts claims over 6 years, in my case i am still paying the bank my own money that they took ten years ago, i have an ongoing claim with Barclay's when that is settled i am going to claim for this amount back and will go all the way to court.

Edited May 6, 2010 by paulwlton

[paulwlton]

Sending first letter off tomorrow, i am claiming back £1450 between 1996 to 1998, yes i know it's more than six years,but someone needs to test it out in court. i'll keep you posted

[paulwlton]

just about to post lba. registered of course, had no reply as yet,out of interest just been looking through statements and one of the charges is described as card abuse. sounds like a blatant penalty to me, basically punishing me like a naughty little boy. if it went to court, and theres a good possibility it will due to the limitation act, how could the bank argue the charges were the cost of a service, i will keep you posted.

[paulwlton]

just received a response from my first letter dated 18-6, saying our charges are fair reasonable, and transparent etc. i note that the charges you want refunded were all applied prior to 1999. I believe that the OFT statement and the various websites that have sprung up on the back of it make it clear that claims can only be entertained for charges applying in the last 6 years. my lba was sent off on the 5-7 so they have got till the 19, then moneyclaim here i come.

[paulwlton]

i have a ccj on a bank loan i took out to pay a big overdraft off in 1998. i am paying this at £38 a month, the od was made up of unlawful charges, so basicaly i'm still paying the charges back now, the debt remains active, could this be challenged, could i argue that the limitation act should start after the final payment of the ccj, not from 1998. i know theirs a section for this, but i have started the claim with rbos and i'm using section 32 of the limitation act, i just need advice if to go down this road aswell.

[paulwlton]

I don't think the limitation act applies to CCJs. surely if their is unlawful charges within this active debt, i have a right to challenge this, even though the CCJ was 8 years ago, any advice mods. also the interest on the loan within the CCJ was 11.9% which was added at judgment, could i claim this back on each charge instead of the 8%.

[paulwlton]

I have been on their website. anything more than 6 years old they don't want to know.

[paulwlton]

just read seminoles post, very similar to my case,this is exactly what i've been looking for.

[paulwlton]

Sorry about that, got a bit carried away, just waiting for the banks response to my lba, the time ran out yesterday. Looks like it's time for MCOL.

[paulwlton]

What address in England can you use for court papers?, the courts don't like Edingburgh, the staff at the court told me to alter the form to include one in England.

[paulwlton]

After reading up on the limitation act and doing some research, i finally handed in to court the N1 papers to issue my claim.

I think it could go either way at a court hearing so i'm going to chance it.

[paulwlton]

Just to keep you updated, the bank filed an acknowledgement of service on 17 August.

Will post their defence in due course.

[paulwlton]

Could be useful for claims against RBOS and Barclas.

 

. How do banks calculate bank charges?

UK banks have been reluctant to disclose the costing of how bank charges are set for reasons of ‘commercial confidentiality’.

However, when pressed by the House of Commons Treasury Select Committee, they have revealed that charges are designed to off-set all of their debt recovery costs.

That would include irrecoverable enforcement costs for people who default on loans (consumer and commercial) and debt write off from bad debts, bankruptcy and liquidation.

So, bank charges do not reflect the actual cost the bank incurs in handling your account. Below is an extract from the House of Commons Treasury Select Committee's 2nd Report (2005)

Select Committee on treasury second report

2. Transparency in charging.

50.Mr Varley claimed that in Barclays case "the charge was insufficient to cover the administrative costs".[89] In a letter Barclays expanded on the costs arising from a late payment: these included additional operating expenditure (relating to: writing letters and making phone calls, the dedicated collections department which deals with accounts which have been in breach for over 30 days, developing repayment plans and monitoring accounts), increased credit risk and capital costs.[90] Sir Fred Goodwin told us that for RBS "The costs are going to pay for all the people we have who pursue debt, collect debt, speak to customers and chase payments. The way these charges are arrived at is by taking these total costs and making some assumptions about the volume that is going to come through to arrive at the individual charges".[91] We noted in our previous report that the average charge had increased by over 50% from £12 in 1998 to nearly £19 in 2003. It could be considered strange that the industry's costs have risen so dramatically, when data from APACS indicate that provisions for bad debts have remained constant.[92] Also, continued advances in IT should have reduced costs by automating processes. Of course it may be that the industry could argue that the average fee did not cover the costs involved adequately in 1998.

51. Credit card issuers continue to maintain that their penalty charges represent a fair recovery of the costs involved, but it is impossible to know—because companies have been unwilling to place in the public domain the information needed to create confidence that these charges are reasonable. We therefore strongly welcome the investigation by the OFT and await the result with interest. We trust that, irrespective of its eventual conclusions about the charges, the OFT's report will contain sufficient detail on the way charges are levied to allow judgements to be made as to whether fees are being used to extract additional revenue from cardholders (including those in financial difficulty) rather than covering reasonable costs. It is in the interest of Companies themselves for such information to be publicly available, so that their customers can see that the charges are reasonable.

[paulwlton]

Well day 28 is here, nothing in the post, i will have to see if owt as been sent into court today, i no it's a last minute job usually, i'll probably give the court a bell later,

[paulwlton]

Just contacted the court, no defence as been submitted, so it's off to court to hand in my request for judgement, i can see the defendant applying for a set-aside, i still may get my day in court.

[paulwlton]

Late post just arrived, and guess what, yes, it's cobbets defence.

[paulwlton]

Just an update RBOS made an application to strike out the claim at the begining of October, the judge must have rejected this has i've just recieved a hearing date for the 1st of December with 2 hours allocated.

[paulwlton]

It was stated in the AQ that they intended to strike out the claim maybe they didn't apply, or they haven't yet.

But yes looks like a full hearing thats been allocated 2 hours, i've received nothing yet from the court regarding the application to strike out the claim.

I have prepared well for the hearing and i'm confident i can present valid arguments to the court concerning time barred claims.

[paulwlton]

Heard nothing from the court regarding their application to strike out, AQs have been sent by both partys, i think the defence was very much standard, no mention of the claim being time barred, but in earlier correspondence with the bank it was stated the claim was time barred.

The judge has allocated 2 hours, i assume this is longer than the standard 1 hour due to the time barred aspect, i also think it may be a little more complex than the average claim because the claim surrounds a loan containing unlawfull elements, this was included in the particulars.

[paulwlton]

A hearing date has been set for the 6th Nov regarding the application to strike out the claim.

Cobbetts state in the notice, the claimant's claim does not disclose any legally recognisable claim against the defendant.

The claimant is time-barred from bringing a claim of unauthorised bank charges prior to 14 August 2000 by the provisions of section 5 of the limitation act 1980.

The claimant did not incur any charges on his account after 17 June 1998.

 

I think this will go all the way, the banks have got to make a stand sooner or later, my plan is to hit them with all i've got at the application hearing.

 

Whats the saying about waiting for buses, court dates 6 Nov, 8Nov, 1st Dec.

Will keep updating.

[paulwlton]

No there will be no surprises from my side.

The full hearing date is the 1st Dec, the application to strike out is on the 6th

Nov.

I will present my case at the application hearing, this will include arguments for the use of sec 32, amongst other things, so yes, i will be making the defendant and the judge aware of this, then hopefully i'll get the decision to continue with the claim, fingers crossed.

At the allocation questionnaire stage i requested standard disclosure i will be requesting this again at the application hearing.

[paulwlton]

I will be submitting in advance, at the application hearing, 3 weeks before the full hearing, don't forget their was no reference to the claim being time barred in the defence, the application hearing is to show the judge that the claim has a reasonable chance of succeeding and not just frivolous.

[paulwlton]

I've just received a copy of the schedule of costs which has been filed at court today.

They have provided me with a full breakdown of cobbetts costs for attending the application hearing.

Total costs claimed -£800.70, this includes, £170.00 per hour grade A partner, grade C solicitor £95.00, grade D paralegal £75.00, anticipated councel's fees £450.00 etc.

Makes my hourly rate look extremely sad, just a little fine tuning to do now for Monday.

Will keep updating.

[paulwlton]

Not so sure, as well as striking out the District Judge can make an order for costs, but i think this is in respect of a poorly drafted claim, the case i've made has been properly drafted from the outset.

I know though if a claim is sruck out it may be reinstated, with an application for relief.

[paulwlton]

Just got in from the court hearing, don't want to say too much at the moment their may be spies about, the hearing has been adjourned will give more details tommorow, i think their barrister was on the back foot a little concerning section 32(1)(b) and 32(1)©.