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      Commercial business lease - Letter before Action - Negotiation not going well

      By AndyOrch · Posted

      Commercial Landlords are legally allowed to sue for early cancellation of the lease. You can only surrender your lease if your landlord agrees to your doing so. They are under no obligation even to consider your request and are entitled to refuse. You cannot use this as an excuse not to pay your rent. Your landlord is most likely to agree to your surrendering the lease if they want the property back in order to redevelop it, or if they wants to rent it to what they regards as a better tenant or at a higher rent. There are two types of surrender: Express surrender in writing. This is a written document which sets out the terms of the surrender. Implied surrender by conduct. (applies to your position) You can move out of the property you leased, simply hand your keys back and the lease will come to an end, but only if the landlord agrees to accept your surrender. Many tenants have thought they can simply post the keys through the landlord's letter box and the lease is ended. This is not true and without a document from the landlord, not only do you not know if the landlord has accepted the surrender, you also do not know on what basis they have accepted and could find they sue you for rent arrears, service charge arrears, damage to the property and compensation for your attempt to leave the property without the landlord's agreement. Unless you are absolutely certain that the landlord is agreeable to your departure, you should not attempt to imply a surrender by relying on your and the landlord's conduct.  
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      80k debt

      By finaldj · Posted

      I had to deal with these last year worst DCA I have ever dealt with. Just wait for the constant threats of CCJ and how you'll lose in court and how they won't do mediation and they want the judge to question you with a load of "BIG" words to boot with the letter. My case was struck out in the end, stupidity on their part as I admitted to owing the debt in the end going through the court process was just a formality as they wouldn't let it drop despite me admitting the debt regardless. They didn't send the last part of the court paper work in so it ended up being struck out     .
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      By FTMDave · Posted

      Well, that's it then. Clear proof of the rubbish cameras. Clear proof of double dipping. G24 won't be getting a penny. Belt & braces, I would write to the address LFI has found, include the evidence of double dipping, and ask Fraser Group to call their dogs off.
    • RodeMan
      80k debt

      By RodeMan · Posted

      LOL. after sending Perch capital a CCA request with a stapled £1 PO attached (x2) Their lapdog Legal team TM Legal have sent me two letters today saying "due to a recent payment on the account, your account is open to legal/enforcement action" so i guess they have tried to apply that payment to the account to run the statue bar along. dirty tactics lol.
    • MANUKI12742
      Advise on debt I currently hold

      By MANUKI12742 · Posted

      I have initiated the breathing space so ill wait. from re reading everything this what i understand BS gives me 60 days break from the creditors during these 60 days they may contact me and will most likely default I need to wait until after a default notice to see whether the OC will keep the debt or sell it off If kept by the OC then i should attempt a plan or pay some token payment? If sold to DCA then don't pay and after 6 years it will leave my credit report once the DN is registered with a date. DCA may start a CCJ but unlikely, if they do come back here. last question, do you know roughly how long this will all take? in terms of defaults/default notice, potential CCJ? Would you say I have 12 months plus from when the BS ends?

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Parcel delivery insurance is prohibited under section 57 – Consumer Rights Act – Read about It Here and in The Times.

DLC - Big Problem, Long Post Sorry. Help!!

sosumi

By sosumi
in Debt Collection Agencies

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PriorityOne

PriorityOne

Posted
Posted
I am so sorry this is such a long post... I keep hesitating to write but I desperately need some advice!

 

Wecome to CAG.... :wink:

 

I had a credit card A with Citi.

In August of last year I and my husband started a Debt Management Plan with Payplan.

The payments to Citi were proportional, as with the other creditors.

The payment to Citi from Payplan was £33.06.

When Payplan sent out the letters explaining our situation, enclosing our Income and Expenditure, together with the offer of payment, Citi agreed to the offer.

We know this because we received a letter from Payplan, telling us who had agreed and who had responded etc.

Citi Cards agreed to the offer and payment of £33.06.

They continued to charge interest and charges - each month at least £200 was being added to the debt, with just the £33.06 going in.

 

Citi need a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) in order for you to re-claim all unlawful charges on this account. I will find the template for you later....

 

I wrote to Citi asking them to freeze interest, that we were in a DMP with Payplan. They didn't stop.

In January this year they transferred the debt to Hillesden Securities/DLC.

But the account number of the card changed completely. It became account B.

 

This may be because Hillesden have bought it.... time will tell.

 

I queried this at the time with both Payplan and DLC. Payplan were understandably keen to have the new account number to keep making the payments. I phoned DLC to check this, and queried the account number change but they had no answers either. They're unlikelty to tell you that they have bought an account for peanuts, when they're intent on chasing you for the full amount. I thought I recognised account B's number but couldn't think how. I was very stressed and the main thing was that all the creditors were being paid, even if they transferred to DCAs.

By the time the account was transferred, several hundred pounds had been added by Citi. As said, you can re-claim these back. Although they had agreed the DMP with Payplan, they chose to ignore freezing interest. So, the account transferred owing £12,459.07.

The same day the letter from Citi was sent, Direct Legal and Collections wrote 'introducing' themselves to me. Citi have assigned the account...

As I said I spoke to them and queried the account number change, but accepted the fact that the debt was in their hands. The payments from Payplan continued, and for a while I received just statements from DLC: as they appeared to be accepting our payments I thought it was okay.

BUT:

I received a statement dated 18th April 2007 from them, which also had the comment:

‘We are considering terminating your account and passing it to our solicitors. You must contact us on 0870 745 4405 immediately.’ The bullying has started...

Also dated 18th April 2007, they sent me a letter telling me that the account is about to terminate 'due to the arrears outstanding...

It goes on to tell me what will happen if I don't prevent it - Default on CRF, full outstanding balance due (£12293.53), account passed to legal team.

Then they write:

“To prevent this from happening, we are prepared to accept a figure of £9834.82 in full and final settlement of your liability.” Hmmm... there's a whack of charges on this account anyway.

"Please contact our offices by Wednesday the 25th of April to discuss this matter further." DO NOT DO THIS !! :o DO NOT EVER 'PHONE A DCA !!... they will tell you all kinds of bowlarks in order to intimidate you into parting with money. Don't ever do it.

This letter was headed "WITHOUT PREJUDICE" because it's a nastigram, that's why.. and, whereas all the other letters I'd received had the 'unknown B' account number on, this simply had their 8-digit reference and their 'client Citifinancial Europe/Associates'. No other account number.

Obviously I couldn't pay this. Sent it to Payplan.

 

Dated 18th May 2007, a letter from them quoting unknown account number B, also 'Our Clients: Hillesden Sec. Ltd (Citifinancial Europe/Associates):

‘You will be aware from our previous letters that your Citifinancial account has now been terminated…’ Followed by threats. Balance £12,260.39.

Letter passed to Payplan.

Dated 1st June 2007, balance still £12,260.39:

‘We have made an application to the local Land Registry and have received formal confirmation that you are the owner of this property.’ More intimidation and threats....

‘It is our intention to commence legal proceedings against you for non-payment of the account. Once a Country Court Judgement has been obtained, a further application will be made to secure this debt against your financial interest in this property by way of a Charging Order.’ They would need to get a CCJ before they can apply for a charging order... and we can stop this.

They go on to say "... We would like to settle this matter amicably and without the need for legal proceedings..." They can't be that sure of themselves then...

I phoned Payplan, who said I should phone DLC to ask if there were any problems showing on the account, did Payplan have the correct ref no. for payments etc.

 

With all due respect, Payplan have been very slack in their advice to you so far.... and have passed the buck back to you time and time again.

 

I have owned this property since 1984 with my husband, have always lived here. They had no reason to check such details. I believe this was either to scare me into making arrangements outside the DMP, or deliberately misleading in order to attempt a Charging Order. They can do it though.... and they can also go for a Charging Order, which is why you need to act now. I called their office, and the person I spoke to said there was nothing wrong with my account or payments, but that they’d calculated under the (then) arrangement the account would not be paid fully until 2036. He said that it would take changing the payment to £204.34 a month for the account to be paid in 5 years, otherwise a Charging Order ‘is just a way of securing your debt against your house, then we can accept the DMP arrangements.’ Bowlarks.... don't 'phone them ever again !

 

We were remortgaging our house so our payments would increase, but I couldn't say by how much at that time.

On 6th June I emailed them to say the remortgage had completed and that their payments will increase to at least £49.32.

They acknowledged the email but nothing more.

 

I won't comment on this because you've done it now....

 

I felt very strongly that their behaviour re. the land registry was both unnecessary and intrusive, so I sent them CCA and S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) requests.

Their replies were dated 12th June. They sent me a letter confirming they would attempt to get the CCA, or a 'true copy'. I see you already know where the links are then... were these templates from this site... and did you send them by rec. delivery ? Do you still have the receipts ?They sent me another letter enclosing their 'database' - log of communications up to that point. It confirmed that they knew my address all along, my phone calls to them, that Payplan were dealing, and at the moment my letter arrived they had written 'HOLD ALL ACTION' - in response to CCA.

They had been moving ahead with legal action, despite my email (the Payplan payment has actually risen to about £76), but stopped waiting response from 'client' (Citi??) re. CCA.

They sent a follow-up letter on 3rd July 2007, to say account is 'on hold' until they get a copy of the original agreement from Citi. They will update in 21 days.

 

If they haven't got the Agreement, then they have no legal right to collect any payments from you whatsoever.

 

Today is 24th July. They have not sent an update. They have not sent a CCA. They are in default of a legal request. Stop all payments now.

I'm sorry this post is so long, but I hope you understand my situation.

They refer to the 'unknown B' account number in all correspondence with me, except in the 'Without Prejudice' offer of a full and final. If their 'client' is Citi, how do they have this authority? They could be acting on behalf of Citi, but DCAs often come out with this rubbish when they've bought accounts as well... Without a CCA though, they are stuffed.... because there is nothing to re-enforce in court. Why did they write 'Without Prejudice', and why did they only refer to their 8-digit reference number and not the 16-digit 'unknown B' account number on the letter?

 

They (Hillesden) placed a default on my credit reference file on 15/5/2007, in their name. I have checked my credit report from Experian, and there was an account with Citifinancial Europe PLC, a credit/store card, started 1999, Credit Limit £4,400, SETTLED on 1/04/2002. Suggests that it was sold... which is why they are able to bring legal action against you in their own right (if they had a CCA, of course... which they don't !)

 

Please can someone help me with this? Our monthly payment by Standing Order to Payplan went out last Friday.Cancel the SO... they are in default of your CCA request. When they receive it, usually the next day they will make payments to all our creditors, including DLC! We do not want to stop payments to creditors, I'm not suggesting that you cancel payment everyone else, but can you arrange this yourself ? but I do not think DLC should receive a payment, given all of the above. I phoned Payplan yesterday and tried to explain to someone, who said she would email my Case Officer. I haven't heard back yet. No surprise there...

I am also concerned because Justabank is now showing my 'account number' with DLC as my OLD credit card account number A - the correct one - but this has never been used by DLC, wasn't used by Citi as they passed the account to DLC, and hasn't been used by Payplan since the account transferred to DLC!

I have a horrible feeling that something's going on and I don't know what it is!!

 

I requested and received a copy of DLC's Complaints Procedure, but not sure now whether to compain to them first or go straight to another authority.

My income is made up of Disability Living Allowance and Severe Disablement Allowance. These should not be taken into account when assessing income/expenditure anyway. We are committed to our Debt Management Plan and keen to pay everyone back, but this is not right, surely?:???:

 

I am wondering if the Account B refers to the settled account?

I have seen a letter here that forbids a DCA selling your debt on to another company while it is in dispute. Could anybody tell me where it is?

How do I stop Payplan sending them a payment, and would that be the right thing to do?

 

If you've read this far, many many thanks. I have waited a long time to get this off my chest! :) Any advice very much welcomed!

 

Phew !! :)

 

Ok... I won't go and get template letters, unless the requests you made were not from this site. If you didn't send them by rec. delivery... then you will probably need to send them again anyway. See what the others think.

 

How much is the true figure outstanding, minus all those charges, do you think ?... approximately ?

 

Hillesden cannot take legal action against you whilst in default of a CCA request. Neither are they legally entitled to collect payments from you. I will find the template letter that I sent to one of mine when they tried this one on me... similar scenario... going for a CCJ and Charging Order, etc. Haven't heard from them in months and now have it in writing that all legal action has been stopped.... :-D .... as no-one has a CCA !

 

Keep your chin up ! .... will be back in a minute or so...

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PriorityOne

PriorityOne

Posted
Posted

Ok... I am assuming that you have not yet had any contact from their solicitors... only threats. I need you to confirm that you have proof of the date when the CCA request was made... in the form of a rec. delivery receipt, before we can go any further. Did you also enclose a chq./PO for the £1 fee for this ?

 

If so... send the following to Hillesden by rec. delivery. Keep a copy.

 

Dear XXX

 

Account (whichever one they've used)

 

I no longer acknowledge any debt to your company.

 

I refer to your letter of xx/xx/2007, in which you state your intention to commence legal proceedings against me for non-payment on the above account.

 

Notwithstanding the fact that payments have been sent to you through my Payplan account up until this time, your company is now in serious default of my legal request for a Consumer Credit Agreement (Consumer Credit Act, 1974), received by yourselves on xx/xx/2007. Furthermore, whilst you remain in default of my legal request, no further payments will be forthcoming.

 

Any further communication from yourselves, whilst in default of my request will be forwarded to Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading without further notice.

 

Yours faithfully/sincerely,

 

:p

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PriorityOne

PriorityOne

Posted
Posted

Have just read throught your last few posts... you're doing great !! Fantastic that Payplan have agreed to stop payments to DLC as well... you need to get this in writing from them, if possible.

 

Keep any further communication that Hillesden/DLC send you... and if they contact you by 'phone, make a note of the date and time of all calls received. Don't feel obliged to talk to them... just hang up as soon as you realise who it is. There are letters to get rid of the harrassing 'phone calls anyway, should you need them.

 

We are all here to support you.... so if you get worried about anything, come back on here for help/moral support. Once you get these muppets off your back.... you may feel strong enough to take on the rest, but one at a time for now.

 

As for Payplan, you may decide to stay with them if you wish... some people prefer it that way. I have always handled my own though, so it can be done.

 

Chin up.... ;)

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PriorityOne

PriorityOne

Posted
Posted

Hi again Sosumi, :)

 

Keep hold of DLCs Complaints info.... you may need it, if they kick off. The Financial Ombudsman Service is able to investigate complaints for you... but only when you have gone through a company's Complaints Procedure and given them a chance to resolve the matter for you (yeah right! :p ). In the meantime, stockpile any/all evidence against them... letters for payment, any logs of attempted 'phone calls, etc.

 

If/when you make a complaint and they fail to resolve it.... it will cost DLC £400 to have the FOS conduct an investigation into their activities anyway.. :D... so they need to start being nice to you....

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PriorityOne

PriorityOne

Posted
Posted
I tried phoning Trading Standards, tried to explain but the conversation was very weird. As soon as I mentioned 'Debt Management Plan with Payplan' she seemed to lose track completely. I don't think I explained very well. I had bronchitis though, and was very anxious, but I wasn't losing my temper - she was. She was looking up Payplan on her computer as we spoke. She said 'So you send your money to Payplan and they take a cut before they send out the payments?'. I tried telling her no, but she just seemed lost in her own vortex. So - not much help there then. I ended up apologising if I sounded anxious, and bronchitic... she suggested a cup of tea and a sit down. She also suggested National Debt Line - that wasn't what I was calling about, but she insisted she did understand :-?:-?

In my experience, TS are a waste of space.... but because the only way to increase their awareness is to report these companies when they stuff up on a CCA request, it's just something that needs to be done.

I mentioned the Office of Fair Trading, but she said she didn't think they could help. I came off the phone feeling punch-drunk. She's probably right there as well....

We requested all of our CRFs last week. But I'd seen my report from Experian - Hillesden (DLC) updated my 'default' with them on 5th August.

If there's no CCA, then this is very naughty. They have no business to update any info. on you if they can't substantiate that they have a legal right to collect from you in the first place.

So, to recap. I had a credit card with Citi. When we started with Payplan's DMP they agreed to the arrangement. They were paid monthly by Payplan, but added interest and charges anyway. Then, using an entirely different credit card number, they assigned the debt (now increased by at least £800) to DLC. DLC accepted the arrangement for a few months, then decided they didn't want to, made me a 'full and final offer' of just under £10,000 (notably lacking any Citi Financial card/account number) - which they knew I couldn't do anything about. Then they started the process of taking me to court for a Charging Order. I sent them a CCA and S.A.R - (Subject Access Request). They don't have a CCA. They placed a default on my credit file in May. They updated it 5th August. The account that I was paying to Citi is not the account that was transferred to them. It probably is the same account, but they probably have a separate ref. number of their own for it. They have done so many wrong things it's hard to know where to start. I feel I should do something about this, but we have no spare money for a solicitor. There is little point in going to see a solicitor... as he/she is likely to take your cash and tell you no more than you would get for free on here. I just want to take the whole thing and put it in front of somebody who understands. We have been paying them money for months. If their 'clients' are Citi, then that money should rightfully be with Citi. Not if Citi have sold the account, it wouldn't.... and this could also explain the different account number that DLC have And our complaint should also go to Citi, for agreeing to the DMP then adding all that interest. The account sounds as if it could have been sold after they accepted your arrangement with Payplan.... but some of these companies are so incestuous in their relationships with one another, it's hard to tell. :rolleyes:

If that woman didn't understand, then we need to find someone who does understand, if only for the sake of my sanity!!

Should we just go to the police?

Any suggestions would be appreciated v. much.

 

Susomi, while there is no CCA... no-one can enforce anything. Once they default and you stop all further payments, the account cannot be re-enforced without it.

 

Make sure you keep hold of every bit of correspondence that anyone sends you.... because if they do start harrassing you after the period of criminal default (calendar month after the 12 working days), then TS should then take you a bit more seriously.... providing that you don't contact them over the 'phone !! They will need to see copies of all your evidence.... and give you a written response to it.

 

:)

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PriorityOne

PriorityOne

Posted
Posted
:) So where they write, in an earlier letter "As you have failed to maintain acceptable payment instalments against your account, we have made an application to the local Land Registry and have received formal confirmation that you are the owner of this property.", they appear to have misled the Land Registry into allowing them access about me? Why? It's never been a secret!! We're on the Electoral Roll!:mad:

 

Accessing the Land Registry is not difficult to do.... all they are doing is trying to give you the heebie jeebies about getting a property charge if you don't pay. It doesn't mean they've got any hold over your home or can get a property charge just like that.... there is a process to go through and they would need a CCJ first.

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