Is My Agreement Enforceable - Useful

[foolishgirl]

You're right - they can't charge interest on the fee.

 

But are you sure they've been adding interest to the £75.00 Dipply?

 

I only ask 'cos I had a similar initial thought when I looked through statements/agreement on a loan but when I worked it out carefully it was correct - it was just the way it was shown. You have to calculate (1) the no. of payments x monthly amount & (2) calculate how much interest is due on just the loan figure. Do they match? I think a 1% tolerance is allowable.

[foolishgirl]

I'll try when I have time later - it took me ages to do mine too!

[foolishgirl]

I've PMd you Dipply with my calcs. Think they have it correct i.e. interest not charged on the fee.

[foolishgirl]

You're welcome. Good luck with claim...

[foolishgirl]

You need to use an image hosting site eg. photobucket

http://photobucket.com/.

You will need to open an account but it's free.

 

You then scan your image (CCA) onto your computer, upload on to the site & post the link in your post here. Don't forget to remove any personal details from your agreement before posting.

[foolishgirl]

Your post will be removed malissa 'cos it has your name & signature on the docs. you posted. It's for your protection.

 

Remove these images from photobucket. Then take a copy of your 'agreement', blank out the personal details using either Photoshop or just plain tippex, scan the images again, upload to photobucket, then post here.

 

The DCAs monitor this site - don't give your enemies gifts!

[foolishgirl]

BTW, as ukaviator says, if this all they sent it's completely unenforceable.

 

How long is it since you sent for the CCA? More than 12+2 days? More than 30 days?

 

IMO it's probable that they won't have an agreement anyway but you need to wait the statutory time to give them the chance to produce one before considering your options.

[foolishgirl]

Malissa - think perhaps you should start new thread for this in HSBC forum as it looks as though it's going to go on for a bit...

 

In the meantime, IMO a letter to HSBC stating

(1) that their docs. do not fulfil the requirements of the CCA1974 for an enforceable agreement (you sound as though you know the content template)

(2) account in dispute, therefore no payments, no interest, no defaults etc.

(3) no telephone calls, all communication to be put in writing etc.

 

If you have problem finding the 'template' for the above, please post back & I'll help.

 

Note - the likelihood is that they will prob. default you anyway despite the above. Also do NOT phone them or speak to them on the phone.

[foolishgirl]

Replied on your other thread, malissa

[foolishgirl]

Looks OK to me, nosmoking, provided page 2 is the reverse of page 1 but as the date of signing by Egg matches the date at the top of Page 1, think this is probably the requisite link.

[foolishgirl]

Hmm, that does sound odd.

 

Is it def. your signature? Could it have been copied from any corresp. you sent them?

 

Have you looked up Chalky's suggestion re. 3 pages? i.e one missing

[foolishgirl]

Hi Cleo

 

Use photobucket or similar to upload. You have to open an account but it's free & the instructions are simple:

 

Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket

[foolishgirl]

Does this mean that the form is an application form?

 

Could very possibly be just that but without seeing the actual doc. it's impossible to say - sorry.

 

Can you try uploading again (minus your personal details) or say what exactly you're having trouble with & someone may be able to help?

[foolishgirl]

You can't apply for a CCA skeggs once the account is terminated. If you just have nil balances on the accounts & they are still open, you can apply for the CCAs.

[foolishgirl]

and there point is....

 

...that you will accept their load of waffle, be utterly confused & drop your case!

 

Not in the CAG world eh, skegleg?

 

Perhaps if you start your own thread, post up the agreement they sent (without personal details), CAGers will be able to help with a suitable response.

Edited November 21, 2008 by foolishgirl
addition

[foolishgirl]

No, just the 12+2 days, Von Greenbach, the 30 days is no longer applicable.

[foolishgirl]

Welcome Joby & Cleo, skeggs too - some food for thought here:

 

1. The 12 days is working days, the +2 is to allow for posting time, so count it up then you can get cracking on them

 

2. In order to stop making payments, you have to put the account in dispute. This means sending them a letter along the lines below after the 12+2 days are up

 

3. When you post up your first thread, make sure you post in the correct forum for your query - see the front page of the forums. It is also shown as a new post & can be found by anyone looking to help others by clicking on the 'New Posts' tab in the user toolbar. So don't worry, lots of CAGers will see your posts & once they have looked in, they can chose to respond or subscribe so they get regular notification when a new item is posted on your thread. You don't have to shout it from the houses

 

Sample letter template for sending to DCA/OC after 12+2 days

 

Dear Sirs

 

I refer to my letter dated xxxx that was delivered via Recorded Delivery to your offices, received by you on xxxx, making a formal request for a true copy of the original credit agreement for the above account under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79) and a true signed copy of the Deed of Assignment.

 

You are reminded that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not, as defined under Section 189 of the CCA 1974.

 

Under the terms of the above Act, a creditor has 12 working days to provide the requested documents. This deadline has now passed & I have not received the requested documents from you.

 

As I am sure you are aware, an agreement that does not contain all of the prescribed terms, and/or is not signed by the debtor, is completely unenforceable & I therefore consider that this account is in dispute with immediate effect & it follows that all payments to this account are suspended forthwith.

 

I draw your attention to the legal requirement that a creditor is not permitted to take any action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and therefore the following applies:

 

• You must not demand any payment on this account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
  
• You must not add any further interest or charges to this account.
  
• You must not pass this account to any third party.
  
• You must not register any information in respect of this account with any of the credit reference agencies.
  
• You must not issue a default notice on this account
  

 

 

I hereby give you notice that if you proceed with any of the above actions, I will file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

 

YF

 

Send all corresp. Rec Del, do not sign - print or use dig. signature (to avoid the unscrupulous copying & pasting to another doc!), send POs rather than cheques (for the same reason)

Edited November 23, 2008 by foolishgirl
addtion

[foolishgirl]

SB100 - this appears to be just an applic. form - but it depends what is on the other side i.e. is page 2 the reverse of this page?

 

Jaystar: You will find all the info you need in the MBNA forum:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/

 

Both of you: You will get much more specific help if you post in the forum to which your query relates eg. Barclaycard - BC forum, MBNA - MBNA forum. You will find all links on the first page of CAG forum.

[foolishgirl]

SB - I agree that the forms you have posted look a little dodgy.

 

If you look at Form 2 you can make out an imprint of the writing on the other side; however if you look for eg. at the bottom left of Form 2, this should correspond with the bottom right of Form 1. I seem to detect the words 'Platinum Plus Visa card' & a code under that. Can you see that on the page they are claiming is the front ie. Page 1? I can't. :-?

 

You may be able to see almost exactly what is on both forms by putting the images thro' Photoshop or similar & reversing the image on Form 2. You could then tell if one is the actual reverse of the other. Not sure on the tech. behind this but do know it's possible. Maybe another CAGer can tell you how to do it?

[foolishgirl]

SB, they may have 'arranged' to have the doc. signed by them to comply with the CCA. In itself, the absence of their sig. would not make the doc. unenforceable - a DJ would just say 'go away & sign it' to make it valid.

 

You are not going to know def. unless you get them to take you to court & ask to see the original.

[foolishgirl]

Welcome to CAG Claire where the advice is not only good but free!

 

To start off the process with your credit agreements you need to send a CCA request to each credit card company enclosing £1.00. Do not sign the letter (use dig. signature or print so it can't be copied & pasted to other docs.) send POs & mail Rec. Del. so you can trace its receipt.

The template letter is on this page - Letter N amend to suit:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

 

If they do not mail an enforceable CCA back within the 12+2 days, you can then send an 'account in dispute' letter & stop payments but suggest you start a separate thread for each CC when you get to that stage - there are effects to consider when deciding to withold payments.

 

In the meantime have a good read of this forum & glean as much knowledge as you can from others who have been there & got the T-shirt.

[foolishgirl]

Hey foolishgirl, sent of my CCA requests this arvo. Can I just check the 12+2 days, is that "working days"? MR08

 

Yes, it's 12+2 working days

[foolishgirl]

Welcome to CAG. You're obviously here 'cos you're suspicious as to the motives of these companies - and you're quite right.

 

Firstly & most importantly, why would you want to pay someone £500 to check your agreement when you get the necessary advice & support on here for free & from people who have been through the process & are willing to help 'cos they don't want to see others suffer?

 

Secondly, when they obtain your agreement (which BTW would cost them the same as you, just £1.00), they find that it is enforceable. Oh, joy, you've lost £499, they've made a quick buck.

 

If they do find your agreement unenforceable, what action will then they then take without any further payments? Look into it carefully, you could have signed an open cheque.

 

There are reasonable easy steps to take in the case of an unenforceable agreement but you would be best off posting your individual problems etc. in the forum relating to your creditor as & when they appear. That way you will get advice specific to your case. It's not a one size fits all solution.

[foolishgirl]

1. Could you photobucket it VG please - can't read it even with my great big readers on!

 

2. What was the date of the application?

[foolishgirl]

VG, sorry, really can't read it. If you can't either, yes there is an illegibility issue:

Reg 2 states:

2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily distinguishable from the ."

IMO this includes font size. I think there is a 'standard' for food packaging, not aware of one for agreements but you could argue that it should be the same or similar.

 

Suggest you ask OC to send it again in legibile format.