1st Credit CCJ/CO On old MBNA Abbey Credit Card - set aside?

[Foggieloon]

Jackarl

 

I've just been contacted by this org under the same circumstances as you - they bought my debt off Nrthern Rock. I'm starting a thread 'as they seem particularly agressive' and I think i'll need some help in sorting them out.

 

MAC

Hi there,

1st Credit bought my debt off Northern Rock.They have issued me with a Sheriff Court summons. I have been paying this debt back for over six years with a DMP and never missed payments.

The original default with Northern Rock was in 2000, and 1st Credit have stated I defaulted again in 2003 when they bought the debt.

The sum involved is £4,400.

1) Can I do anything about the Sheriff Court summons (URGENT)

2) Can 1st Credit say I have defaulted on a debt that was defaulted with Northern Rock

[rory32]

What does the court summons state?

 

Was the original Northern Rock account a loan, a credit card or something else?

 

Do you know if there are charges on the account? If so, do you have any idea how much these might be?

[rory32]

Have you ever received a Notice of Assignment from 1st credit?

[Foggieloon]

Hi Rory,

The original account with Northern Rock was a personal loan taken out on September 1999 for £6000 plus credit charge of £1654.80 and was a joint application with my wife.

The INITIAL WRIT states that I (The Defender) has refused or at least delayed to make payment of the said sum of £4438.76.

There is a form 03(application for time to pay direction) which has to be returned within 21 days of 28th August 2007.

I have been paying instalments to this debt using a DMP since 2000, the first payments were to Eversheds Solicitors then in Sept 2003 the payments were redirected to Northern Rock the payments were redirected again to 1st Credit in 2005. I cannot understand why 1st Credits lawyers (Yuill+Kyle) are being so aggressive.

My credit file states the Account type as 'Communications'

Default balance of £5,406

Current balance £4,439

Defaulted on 24/11/2003

I am checking if I received a Notice of Assignment from 1st Credit.

Is this important?

Thanks for your help

Foggieloon

[tifo]

I've had a few CCJ's a few years ago and then no CCA compliance now but i've been told that once you get a CCJ the debt is enforced and i can do nothing to have it set aside, though one of the acceptable reasons is that 'i agreed with the amount at the time but do not do so now'.

 

I have 3 CCJ's.

 

One with 1st Credit from 2 years ago and they have a charge on my property.

 

Second one with Hillesden from almost 3 years ago and they have not fully complied with my CCA request but i am paying the agreed amount.

 

Third one with HSBC from 2 years ago and last year they sold the debt to a DCA after i requested charges back, so technically i don't owe the bank the CCJ they got for me. Now they've admitted no agreement as it was a personal current account but their POC at the time stated 'credit agreement regulated by the CCA 1974'. I was paying a DCA for a while until i made a CCA request to them and they sent it back to HSBC, who did not ask for anything.

 

1st Credit have said they won't enforce the debt until they comply with my CCA request, but then they have a CCJ and a charge on the property, so how can i handle this? It's been 2 years since CCJ and 1 year since CCA request and they've sent nothing. Also, they've never accepted my offer of payment and not asked me to pay anything to them after the CCJ.

 

Any advice would be appreciated as i was told before that nothing can be done now but am reading of members who have successfully had a CCJ set aside after CCA non compliance, even after many years.

[Edz11]

You're into new and deep waters here...

 

The principle of res judicata (sic?) means "the court has had a look at this already and made a decision - so why look again?". You'd get a fresh look at it if there special reasons - but not if it was you not liking the decision some time after. But I'll quite happily stand to be corrected.

 

But, there is some hope. You might have to go back to the Court under S142 and get that CCJ overturned "by the back door". That section can be used to set out the rights of the parties in CCA's - which might mean that 1st credit have no rights.

[tifo]

But, there is some hope. You might have to go back to the Court under S142 and get that CCJ overturned "by the back door". That section can be used to set out the rights of the parties in CCA's - which might mean that 1st credit have no rights.

 

Sounds good. I'll have a look at s.142 ...

 

142 Power to declare rights of parties

 

(1) Where under any provision of this Act a thing can be done by a creditor or owner on an enforcement order only, and either—

 

(a) the court dismisses (except on technical grounds only) an application for an enforcement order, or

 

(b) where no such application has been made or such an application has been dismissed on technical grounds only, an interested party applies to the court for a declaration under this subsection,

 

the court may if it thinks just make a declaration that the creditor or owner is not entitled to do that thing, and thereafter no application for an enforcement order in respect of it shall be entertained.

 

(2) Where—

 

(a) a regulated agreement or linked transaction is cancelled under section 69(1), or becomes subject to section 69(2), or

 

(b) a regulated agreement is terminated under section 91, and an interested party applies to the court for a declaration under this subsection, the court may make a declaration to that effect.

[MrSensible]

Once they have judgment YOU need to prove that the judgment is flawed.

Stating you want a CCA is a bit late! They didnt fail to comply at the time.

 

Only option is to pay the debt I think.

[joshuaf1968]

I owed a DCA who got a CCJ and a Charge

 

I CCA'd them and they failed to provide

 

I took them to Court for a set aside

 

Judge liked my case and the DCA backed off agreed to set aside the CCJ and not collect again on my debt worth ovr £15,000 so it CAN be done

 

Go for it:D

[Edz11]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/122586-court-app-set-aside.html#post1268060

 

I think it's stalled in the Euro Parliament - so get in touch with your Euro MP...

[tifo]

Letter from 1st Credit rec'd today.

 

Stating they confirm they have a final charging order against my property, that they are disappointed i have failed to put forward and maintain a payment proposal (i offered and they've always refused, even at court and later through their solicitors) and that they they have instructed their solicitors LCS to take appropriate steps to obtain payment of the judgement debt. This could include possession and sale of the property.

 

To avoid action please call 0870 xxx xxx within 7 days.

 

They also state as i am a home owner, LCS can introduce me to Black and White who are an award winning company and can help me raise finance to clear my debts.

 

What course of action can i take as they have not been in contact since accepting they have received my s.78 request and will ask for payment only when they comply.

 

Shall i use this letter to ask for a set aside of the CCJ and Charging Order, based on their s.78 non compliance and the debt amount including penalty charges of approx £1200 plus charges by 1st Credit. They haven't sent me a full statement yet, despite asking as part of my s.78 request. The CCJ is for £4,400.

[42man]

Good luck on this Tifo...i'll be watching this with interest....I did see a thread by Joshua in the CABOT forum and he got his thrown out for I believe the same reasons as you....here it is.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/cabot/127800-some-good-news-share.html

 

Also interesting to see them offering black and white....

 

2.6 of the OFT's guidance on debt collection says...

 

b. pressurising debtors to sell property, to raise funds by further

borrowing or to extend their borrowing

[tifo]

Also interesting to see them offering black and white....

 

2.6 of the OFT's guidance on debt collection says...

 

b. pressurising debtors to sell property, to raise funds by further

borrowing or to extend their borrowing

 

Yes, i've seen Josh's thread but despite PM'ing him for the letters etc he used, i still haven't got anything.

 

Can i use this against 1st Credit as they've said previously they'll ask for payment when they comply with my s.78 request, and that was 1 year ago. Now they're chasing it again and offering to get me another loan, which will obviously be high interest and probably secured.

 

The letters seems to 'imply' to get a secured loan and pay us back or we'll possess and sell your property, or that's how i should report it.

"bad credit loans, mortgages and secured loans - blackandwhite.co.uk"

[tifo]

this is interesting, this is who 1st Credit want me to use :-

 

Mortgage brokers operating below standards, financial firms failing to meet its website standards and the onsite visit to Black & White summed up the working week for the FSA.

The industry is right to be worried about increased regulatory presence and pressure, especially in a climate that unfortunately, is likely to see the industry end on a low note. For Thomas Reeh, chief executive of Black & White, last week's visit came as a shock and he was quick to inform the media he was being cooperative with the FSA. But the sight of police overseeing the removal of case files would concern any boss. Reeh speculated his business could be the victim of a malicious tip-off from a disgruntled member of staff, after Black & White was recently forced to make 25% of its workforce redundant. Does this mean the long list of other firms making redundancies should be concerned? Will the sight of police officers entering mortgage firms' premises become the norm in the industry? That is certainly an image the market does not need, now or ever.

[tifo]

complain to OFT and FSA regarding this loan selling tactic?

 

if they take me to court then i have no choice but to apply for a set aside of the CCJ and Charging Order but they're not likely to possess my house and sell it for a £3k loan, are they? I've been told they shouldn't have got an order in the first place for an amount below £5k.

[42man]

They are trying to make me bankrupt for a claimed £4k !!!

[tifo]

They are trying to make me bankrupt for a claimed £4k !!!

 

So they might try with my £3k (after charges are taken off)?

 

With family and kids and a house worth over £220k, i don't think they'll get it especially since they've never accepted a payment proposal directly, through a debt advisor and throug the court. I think that shows them being very unreasonable.

[pt2537]

Hi tifo,

 

CCJ's are notoriously difficult to get set aside and even more difficult where there is a final CO on the property

 

I will ask a person who i know , has a great deal of knowledge in charging orders ,to look in and offer some advice as this is one area that i do not know much about , although i am reading up on it

 

Regards

paul

[sequenci]

complain to OFT and FSA regarding this loan selling tactic?

 

yes, certainly

 

if they take me to court then i have no choice but to apply for a set aside of the CCJ and Charging Order but they're not likely to possess my house and sell it for a £3k loan, are they? I've been told they shouldn't have got an order in the first place for an amount below £5k.

 

You can certainly try for the set aside as you have a reasonable defence, my only concern is that you should have applied for the set aside 'promptly' and a DJ might turn you down.

 

As an alternative you could apply to vary the terms of the CO so that no order for sale could be made so long as you keep up with an instalment order.

[pt2537]

Cheers Sequenci

 

much appreciated

[tifo]

You can certainly try for the set aside as you have a reasonable defence, my only concern is that you should have applied for the set aside 'promptly' and a DJ might turn you down.

 

As an alternative you could apply to vary the terms of the CO so that no order for sale could be made so long as you keep up with an instalment order.

 

How can i apply to have the CCJ set aside, as in the past i have always been told that once accepted and granted, it is impossible to remove, even though one of the valid reasons is that now you do not agree with the amount since the discovery of unlawful penalty charges.

 

How does their s.78 non-compliance come into it as it states they cannot enforce while in default and offence, and they have stated in writing that they will 'ask their client as per my request' and when they send the documents to me they will then expect full payment.

 

There has never been a payment agreement with them as they've never accepted my offer through a debt advisor and the court. At the CO hearing, the agenda was first my payment proposal and then their application. Their rep stated he was there only for the CO and could not discuss payment arrangement, judge said OK, here is the final CO. After that i offered an amount again through their solicitor but they refused and wanted more than i could afford. Then they left it and haven't chased it up in 2.5 years until now. CCJ was in 2005, CO in 2006 i think.

[tifo]

i've made an application with Black and White to see what they offer me and how much more in debt this will put me in. I can then use this as evidence at court.

[42man]

A sneaky idea Tifo....keep us posted, (but don't sign the CCA !!!)

[tifo]

A sneaky idea Tifo....keep us posted, (but don't sign the CCA !!!)

 

I have no intention of getting the secured loan at a eye watering rate to pay off something which should be unenforceable (just a small matter of that CCJ!). I just want the quotation with all the figures etc.

[42man]

Wait until they finish quoting you then casually ask if they should be allowed to do this as you were under the impression that it was against OFT's guidelines to offer further borrowing !!!