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    • Hi, the vehicle went to Audi Chingford on Thursday 13th May. I did state beforehand that I only wanted a diagnostic. The technician out of courtesy opened the drain letting huge deposits of water escape the seals. Video evidence was provided via AUDI cam. The link for the audi cam has been forwarded to BMW and Motonovo. I spoke to branch manager explained the situation and he stated he would sent me an email outlining the issue. Audi state this is not really an issue and more of a design flaw. However, the seals still have water ingress. I purchased the vehicle with £0 deposit on a 60 months HP plan for £520.00. The vehicle total was £21000. I did not go for any extended warranty. I live almost 70 miles away from the aftersales centre in Peterborough. I have previously uploaded the document I forwarded to BMW however it was in word format. I have had to buy a new tyre almost three days after purchasing vehicle. BMW still have not compensated me for the v62 cost as they said they would. 
    • I would suggest that you stop trying to rely on legal theory – as you understand it. Firstly, because we are dealing with practical/pragmatic situations and at a low value level where these arguments tend not to work. Secondly, because you clearly have misunderstood the assessment of quantum where there are breaches of obligations. The formula that you have cited above is the method of loss calculation in torts. In contract it is entirely different. The law of obligations generally attempts to remedy the breach. This means that in tort, damages seek to put you into the position you would have been in had the breach not occurred. In other words it returns you to your starting position – point zero. Contract damages attend put you into the position that you would have been had the breach not occurred but this is not your starting position, contract damages assume that the agreement in dispute had actually been carried out. This puts you into your final position. You sold an item for £XXX. Your expectation was that you your item would be correctly delivered and that you would be the beneficiary of £XXX. Your expectation loss is the amount that you sold the item for and that is all you are entitled to recover. If you want, you can try to sue for the larger sum – and we will help you. But if they ask for evidence of the value of the item as it was sold then I can almost guarantee that either you will be obliged to settle for the lesser sum – or else a judge will give you judgement but for the lesser sum. This will put you to the position that you would have been had there been no breach of contract. I understand from you now that when you dispatch the item you declared the retail cost to you and not your expected benefit of £XXX. To claim for the retail value in the circumstances would offend the rules relating to betterment. If you want to do it then we will help you – but don't be surprised if you take a tumble.  
    • I was caught speeding 3 times in the same week, on the same road. All times were 8-12mph higher than the limit. I was offered the course for the first offense and I now need to accept the other 2 offenses. I just want to be ready for what might come. Will I get the £100 fine and 3 points for each of them or do I face something more severe?  These are my only offenses in 8 years of driving.
    • I'll get my letter drafted this evening. Its an item I sold, which I'm also concerned about, as whilst I don't have my original purchase receipt (the best I have is my credit card statement showing a purchase from Car Audio Centre), I do unfortunately have the eBay listing where I sold it for much less. But as I said before this is now a question of compensation: true compensation would seek to put me back into the position I was in before the loss ie: that title would remain with me until my buyer has accepted this, and so compensation should be that which would be needed to replace the lost item. But in the world of instant electronic payment, it could be argued that as I had already been paid, the title to the goods had already transferred, and I was required to refund the buyer after the loss. And so, despite my declared value being the retail price - that which is needed to return me to my pre-sales position, the compensatory value should be the value I sold it for, which being a second-hand item from a private seller is lower. I still believe that I should be claiming for the item's full value, rather than how much I sold it for, as this is the same for insurance: we don't insure the value we paid, but rather the value of the item to put us back into the position we would be in if we ever needed to claim. Its for the loss adjuster to argue the toss
    • amusing that 'bad economic judgement on behalf of prior party ISN'T a major reason to wingers to move to deform yet immigration is, where record levels of such has been driven by the right wings terrible brexit and the later incompetent dog whistle 'proposals largely driven to whistle to the right wingnuts Just seems to confirm the are clueless numpties 'wetting their own shoes   Has farage bought a property in Clacton yet?   yet concern for the NHS is listed as a major issue even by those saying they are moving to deform  
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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Yes you did, but my pride is still hurt. Anyway we had better not talk anymore other wise pete will feel left out. Night xx

 

Pete always feels left out lol it's Bruce we have to worry about :D

Alliance & leicester:Settled 8/9/06 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/alliance-leicester-successes/19700-tamadus-l.html?highlight=tamadus

Capital One:Settled 22/9/06 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/capital-one/16644-tamadus-capital-one.html?highlight=tamadus

MBNA 2 accounts:Settled 22/9/06 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/other-institutions-successes/13831-tamadus-mbna-i.html?highlight=tamadus

Smile:Settled 15/11/06

Egg Card:S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 2/10/06

GE Money:S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent3/8/06 LBA sent 26/9/06

Abbey:ERC prelim sent 14/9/06. LBA sent 2/10/06. Now it's getting interesting so keep watching

Barclaycard:In criminal default watch this space

Lloyds TSB:In criminal default watch this space

 

If my comments have been useful please click the scales and let me know.

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Morning all. Need advice please, I sent of a CCA request to Halifax Credit Card( in Fife) and a seperate request to Halifax( chester) for a loan I had a few years ago. Well this morning received a CC statement and they've creditered the 2 seperate £1 PO to the credit card. Do I neeed to write to them again. The 12 days were up on 26th Oct. Thanks Sam x

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Good Morning Sam,

 

They are now in a default situation, and in theory cannot charge interest or any other charges. They have a further calender month to provide the information you asked for and then they are commiting an offence. I personally wouldnt contact them, although a subtle reminder as the end of the month gets closer might shake them up a little bit.

Alliance & leicester:Settled 8/9/06 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/alliance-leicester-successes/19700-tamadus-l.html?highlight=tamadus

Capital One:Settled 22/9/06 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/capital-one/16644-tamadus-capital-one.html?highlight=tamadus

MBNA 2 accounts:Settled 22/9/06 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/other-institutions-successes/13831-tamadus-mbna-i.html?highlight=tamadus

Smile:Settled 15/11/06

Egg Card:S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 2/10/06

GE Money:S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent3/8/06 LBA sent 26/9/06

Abbey:ERC prelim sent 14/9/06. LBA sent 2/10/06. Now it's getting interesting so keep watching

Barclaycard:In criminal default watch this space

Lloyds TSB:In criminal default watch this space

 

If my comments have been useful please click the scales and let me know.

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I think people on this thread are starting to get confused, the facts are, a fully executed agreement must be signed by both parties, if this is not the case then the agreement is unenforcable in a court of law.

This is my view and the view if the OFT, however only a judge can decide the outcome if either side contests this.

What i'm saying is, if the finance company fobs the creditor off then let a judge decide.

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/BA02B3B2-F6D4-4EE0-BDB8-825BB582F1C7/0/oft801.pdf

An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. <br />

Winston Churchill

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Morning Dave. Thanks for info. I'll do as you suggest. I don't know what there doing crediting the £1 that I sent for the loan CCA on the credit card.Thanks again.

 

Ps Morning Pete x

 

Either they have slipped up and not realised what your request was so put the money into your account as they have nowhere else to put it, or they are planning not to charge you for your agreement :D

Alliance & leicester:Settled 8/9/06 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/alliance-leicester-successes/19700-tamadus-l.html?highlight=tamadus

Capital One:Settled 22/9/06 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/capital-one/16644-tamadus-capital-one.html?highlight=tamadus

MBNA 2 accounts:Settled 22/9/06 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/other-institutions-successes/13831-tamadus-mbna-i.html?highlight=tamadus

Smile:Settled 15/11/06

Egg Card:S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 2/10/06

GE Money:S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent3/8/06 LBA sent 26/9/06

Abbey:ERC prelim sent 14/9/06. LBA sent 2/10/06. Now it's getting interesting so keep watching

Barclaycard:In criminal default watch this space

Lloyds TSB:In criminal default watch this space

 

If my comments have been useful please click the scales and let me know.

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I think people on this thread are starting to get confused, the facts are, a fully executed agreement must be signed by both parties, if this is not the case then the agreement is unenforcable in a court of law.

This is my view and the view if the OFT, however only a judge can decide the outcome if either side contests this.

What i'm saying is, if the finance company fobs the creditor off then let a judge decide.

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/BA02B3B2-F6D4-4EE0-BDB8-825BB582F1C7/0/oft801.pdf

 

Paul the problem arises out of the CCA in that it and various subsequent Statutory Instuments dictate what information is needed to satisfy a request for the executed credit agreement under sections 77, 78 and 85. Yes I agree that ultimately a judge can decide, but his decision will also be affected by the wording of the CCA and the SI's.

Alliance & leicester:Settled 8/9/06 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/alliance-leicester-successes/19700-tamadus-l.html?highlight=tamadus

Capital One:Settled 22/9/06 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/capital-one/16644-tamadus-capital-one.html?highlight=tamadus

MBNA 2 accounts:Settled 22/9/06 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/other-institutions-successes/13831-tamadus-mbna-i.html?highlight=tamadus

Smile:Settled 15/11/06

Egg Card:S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 2/10/06

GE Money:S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent3/8/06 LBA sent 26/9/06

Abbey:ERC prelim sent 14/9/06. LBA sent 2/10/06. Now it's getting interesting so keep watching

Barclaycard:In criminal default watch this space

Lloyds TSB:In criminal default watch this space

 

If my comments have been useful please click the scales and let me know.

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What i'm saying is, if the finance company fobs the creditor off then let a judge decide.

 

But also isn't it true that the onus of proof of the existance of such an executed agreement lies with the creditor ,It is not up to the debtor ro proove the non existanse of the agreement.Hence section 77 of the act.

 

Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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What i'm saying is, if the finance company fobs the creditor off then let a judge decide.

 

But also isn't it true that the onus of proof of the existance of such an executed agreement lies with the creditor ,It is not up to the debtor ro proove the non existanse of the agreement.Hence section 77 of the act.

 

Peter

 

Yes Peter the onus is on the creditor to prove the existance of the agreement, but do we all want to go to court so a judge can decree what is and isnt an acceptable agreement?

Alliance & leicester:Settled 8/9/06 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/alliance-leicester-successes/19700-tamadus-l.html?highlight=tamadus

Capital One:Settled 22/9/06 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/capital-one/16644-tamadus-capital-one.html?highlight=tamadus

MBNA 2 accounts:Settled 22/9/06 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/other-institutions-successes/13831-tamadus-mbna-i.html?highlight=tamadus

Smile:Settled 15/11/06

Egg Card:S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 2/10/06

GE Money:S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent3/8/06 LBA sent 26/9/06

Abbey:ERC prelim sent 14/9/06. LBA sent 2/10/06. Now it's getting interesting so keep watching

Barclaycard:In criminal default watch this space

Lloyds TSB:In criminal default watch this space

 

If my comments have been useful please click the scales and let me know.

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The creditor would have to initiate court proceediongs. I do not think that the judge would be very impressed with them wasting court time when all they had to do was produce a copy of the signed document,any way why would they go to the expence if they had the agrement anyway and if they did'nt they would loose.

 

Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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Sorry had to edit my earlier post it's very early for me brains not working properly yet.

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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Dave imagine the scenario (this is apart from the fact that in my opinion the creditor is not conforming to section 77 by returning a signed executed agreement)

You apply for your copy of the contract sighting sec77

They send you a copy of an agreement without a signature.

You reject this as not being able to verify it’s authenticity (would you remember every word on an agreement that could have been made up to six years earlier)

Perhaps you send the letter below to the creditor.

Dear Sir

Thank you for the documents you sent as a response to my request under the CCA 1974 section 77. I am afraid however that I cannot accept that these are true copies of any agreements alleged to have been executed between ourselves, I am sure you are aware the burden on proof for the existence of any such agreements lies with you.

Perhaps I might suggest that production a true copy of the alleged executed contract including a signature might serve to settle the matter.

Your only other action would be for you to take action in court to prove that such a document ever existed, I am sure that the Judge would take a dim view of any action taken that could be so readily remedied by the production of the signed contract.

I would remind you that the time limit for the production of any such agreement continues and if no true copy is produced within the prescribed period then you will be in default and any alleged contract will be unenforceable in law.

The creditor loses their senses and decides to take you to court in order to enforce the agreement.

As defendant you are entitled to disclosure of all documents relevant to the case.

The claimant can’t disclose what he hasn’t got.

You apply to the court to have the case thrown out on the grounds that the claimant has no evidence.

Or

The claimant produces the document and therefore there is no need for the case to continue as you have what you requested in the first place.

Complete farce and makes no sense whatsoever

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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I think people on this thread are starting to get confused, the facts are, a fully executed agreement must be signed by both parties, if this is not the case then the agreement is unenforcable in a court of law.

This is my view and the view if the OFT, however only a judge can decide the outcome if either side contests this.

What i'm saying is, if the finance company fobs the creditor off then let a judge decide.

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/BA02B3B2-F6D4-4EE0-BDB8-825BB582F1C7/0/oft801.pdf

 

The courts have quite wide powers to enforce an agreement. The "agreement" does not necessarily have to have been properly executed to be enforceable if you have signed something that contains the T&C's.

 

The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)

(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the

prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the

prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the

prescribed manner).

 

Pete

I will not make any deals with you. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own. Number 6

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I would remind you that the time limit for the production of any such agreement continues and if no true copy is produced within the prescribed period then you will be in default and any alleged contract will be unenforceable in law.

 

That wouldn't apply though would it? They have fulfilled S78 by producing the "generic" copy as allowed under the 1983 regulations and there is no timescale for production of anything else.

 

Pete

I will not make any deals with you. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own. Number 6

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"I do not agree with your interpretation of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983. I believe that these regulations apply to pre-contractual documents or document copies issued by the creditor in the immediate aftermath of a credit agreement under the control of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (the Act) Sections 58,62, 63 and 64.

 

Sections 77 and 78 of the Act are not bound by the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983; any request under Sections 77 and 78 of the Act can only be fulfilled with a copy of the fully and properly executed agreement conforming to Section 61 of the Act."

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Morning all. Need advice please, I sent of a CCA request to Halifax Credit Card( in Fife) and a seperate request to Halifax( chester) for a loan I had a few years ago. Well this morning received a CC statement and they've creditered the 2 seperate £1 PO to the credit card. Do I neeed to write to them again. The 12 days were up on 26th Oct. Thanks Sam x

 

I would totally ignore them until their full time is up.

 

You need to allow them 12 working days (excluding bank hols and weekends) + 2 days for the letter to have reached them then a further full calendar month (not 30 days). It effectively works out at three weeks + one month give or take.

 

At the end of that period I would then write and tell them they have exceeded the time limit for replying, that you believe they have now committed an offence and that the agreement in no longer enforceable.

 

Pete

I will not make any deals with you. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own. Number 6

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Who says it's a true copy.If you don't accept it as such then it is up to them to prove it is.

Simple enough to do provide a copy of the signed orriginal as requested.

Otherwise the could send you a bill for the canary wharf development and be able to enforce that.

 

Any way i am still of the opinion that the 1983 regs don't apply

 

Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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I thought we had confirmed that the 1983 regs had no bearing on s.78?

 

Oops... I forgot.

 

There may be an issue with that opinion. We are awaiting further information ( we being me, tamadus and peterbard) before we can give an unequivocal confirmation.

 

Please ignore it for the time being.

 

Pete

I will not make any deals with you. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own. Number 6

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By the way good afternoon everybody

 

(I was feeling a bit left out)

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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Who says it's a true copy.If you don't accept it as such then it is up to them to prove it is.

Simple enough to do provide a copy of the signed orriginal as requested.

Otherwise the could send you a bill for the canary wharf development and be able to enforce that.

 

Any way i am still of the opinion that the 1983 regs don't apply

 

Peter

 

If we were to assume, for the sake of argument, that the 1983 regs do apply then the creditor has to do nothing else. You can stop paying them and force them into taking court action but you cannot force them to produce any other documentation prior to court.

 

Pete

I will not make any deals with you. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own. Number 6

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In any event S127(3) of the CCA is pretty wide ranging as a possible escape clause for the lender.

 

Pete

I will not make any deals with you. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own. Number 6

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